Chris Harris takes on Ferrari on US website....in a big way
Discussion
Mermaid said:
Good point. Anyone ever achieved the fuel consumption claimed by the manufacturer?
I'm pretty sure that if a manufacturer was found to be deliberately misquoting fuel consumption they would be in a fair bit of trouble. The reason that you never match manufacturer claims is that it is not possible to drive in the real world like they do for the official consumption tests.lauda said:
Mermaid said:
Good point. Anyone ever achieved the fuel consumption claimed by the manufacturer?
I'm pretty sure that if a manufacturer was found to be deliberately misquoting fuel consumption they would be in a fair bit of trouble. The reason that you never match manufacturer claims is that it is not possible to drive in the real world like they do for the official consumption tests.
Same effect, different reason. MPG should be governed by law as its related to emissions, which are a taxable item.It's not just mpg, but also 0-60. Is that with all trimmings removed, with the lightest driver and minimal fuel in the tank, no spare wheel and other excess weight shedded. Unless anyone knows for sure (and also if they have worked with multiple maufacturers) then we never ever get the true condtion and performance of a car.
RobM77 said:
Same effect, different reason. MPG should be governed by law as its related to emissions, which are a taxable item.http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/200...
Mermaid said:
Good point. Anyone ever achieved the fuel consumption claimed by the manufacturer?
My father's A6 2.7 TDi does regularly, quoted ~41MPG and normal driving gets him that, on a long run 46MPG is actually possible if you don't mind the car getting a little toasty in summer 
Mainly because it's 80% motorways on that journey which I think is key.Everyone knows that 0-60 times are utter b
ks, though oddly the official 0-60 for my current car is about 1.5 seconds slower than the reality as Peugeot popped it at about 8.6s to keep the insurance down.
There's a difference between optimistic 0-60 times and mild engine tweaking compared to preventing journalists driving anything other than certified cars and setting up cars especially for different race tracks
ks, though oddly the official 0-60 for my current car is about 1.5 seconds slower than the reality as Peugeot popped it at about 8.6s to keep the insurance down.There's a difference between optimistic 0-60 times and mild engine tweaking compared to preventing journalists driving anything other than certified cars and setting up cars especially for different race tracks
Mermaid said:
Good point. Anyone ever achieved the fuel consumption claimed by the manufacturer?
But the manufacturers didn't invent the test, and in many cases don't actually perform the tests themselves. Similarly, I'd be very surprised if every journey you did was done using an vehicle that had covered approximate 3,000 miles, at 20 degrees air temp, over 7.4 miles, 40% of which has speeds of between 0 and 30 mph, averaging 22 mph, the other 60% between 0 and 70 mph, with no wind, inclines or passengers etc etc
The test doesn't give accurate figures because it doesn't replicate real world driving in any way - if you read the VCA's own information on the test, they basically say just that, and that the information is only useful for comparing the fuel consumption of similar vehicles
As for CH, it's about time someone let the cat out of the bag - it's ridiculous that they try and control what is said in a magazine, and even more ridiculous that they send an army of engineers on every test
Harji said:
Pointless I would say. Come on, apart from car loving friends, how many times do you see a car magazine laying around? I know a few ppl who have alot of money , and their first port of call is Porsche or Ferrari without any magazine write up inbetween.
I hear you, Ferrari, though, rightly or wrongly, definitely think that winning road tests in magazines has great value and is worth all this Either that, or it's a case of F1 winning methods being applied to their road cars
Whatty said:
Job done.
I bet that caused a few laughs around people who will not comment here on such matters. Excellent work.Getting back to Horrible Harris as my mate calls him I think this is just the sign of the times.
Imagine 20 years ago and Horrible, aged 12+ in his shorts and school blazer, goes up to Peter Dron who is the editor of the worlds premier fast car magazine, Fast Lane, and says
Chris :- " Peter, can I write a piece on how Ferrari are not playing by the testing rules?"
Peter:- " Our deadline is in 2 weeks let me think about it."
Chris:- "OK"
1 week and 6 days later
Peter:- " Chris, the answer is no! "
Chris, aged 8-11:-
" OK, fair enough, it doesn't matter anyway, this new MX-5 I've been testing is far too powerful compared to the Metro 1.1 City you got me driving as a taster .. my f****g legs don't even reach down to the pedals due to the low slung driving position and lack of booster seat"
Peter:- "Good lad." Pat pat pat.
That's the problem with the internet nowadays no editorial control and things are like a can of worms that are escaping at the speed of an electron down a cable, just ask any footballer or cricketer on twitter who has said the refs a thingymabob.
Not that I am saying Chris is wrong here, in the old days things were very stuffy and not true to life, so much so that the Ferrari 348 was an excellent car until 10 years later when it was found that not only were the side strakes and rear stakes an abomination to the eye but it actually handled worse than that milk float driven by Dougal in Father Ted. And that had a bomb on board let us not forget.
Chris said recently that the MP4-12C does not wear it's heart on it's sleeve. Very true. It seems there is at least one journalist who does though, no matter the consequences.
And whatever the pro's and con's, at the end of the day it was a bloody good read. Bloody good reads are what we pay journo's for.
Good work.
Andy
Edited by zakelwe on Wednesday 16th February 19:46
Harji said:
It's not just mpg, but also 0-60. Is that with all trimmings removed, with the lightest driver and minimal fuel in the tank, no spare wheel and other excess weight shedded. Unless anyone knows for sure (and also if they have worked with multiple maufacturers) then we never ever get the true condtion and performance of a car.
I agree completely with that, but if the cars are all set up in standard trim with no mods, at least the comparative numbers will be OK. Whatty just went viral..from Jalopnik in the US..the magic mannetino!!!:
http://jalopnik.com/#!carporn/5762315
http://jalopnik.com/#!carporn/5762315
I thought Harris' best point was that Ferrari don't need to do this stuff as it's cars are good enough without the obsessive need to control the media.
Frankly anyone who is prepared to spend £180,000 without forming thier own view on a test drive beforehand is an idiot. Anyone spending a tenth or even a twentieth of that money purely on the opinion of a journalist is in the same position.
There are of course those who want to be "first" and buy sight unseen but then they aren't really going to change a buying decision based on a journo either, unless many of them combine to slag a car off for similar reasons.
Harris is right. You can't control the message with the Internet these days. If a car is a dud word will get out. But it's also up to the media whether it accepts this kind of treatment. If a large enough group of the bigger publications clubbed together and refused to deal with Ferrari until changes were made then it would probably happen. The problem is that the media's obsession with the next headline will always trump any responsibility they should have to do honest reports on these cars, rather then the "specials" they often get supplied.
In that sense the media (and I include EVO in this) are absolutely no better than Top Gear. It's just all entertainment innit. Wait until you see the next issue...
Frankly anyone who is prepared to spend £180,000 without forming thier own view on a test drive beforehand is an idiot. Anyone spending a tenth or even a twentieth of that money purely on the opinion of a journalist is in the same position.
There are of course those who want to be "first" and buy sight unseen but then they aren't really going to change a buying decision based on a journo either, unless many of them combine to slag a car off for similar reasons.
Harris is right. You can't control the message with the Internet these days. If a car is a dud word will get out. But it's also up to the media whether it accepts this kind of treatment. If a large enough group of the bigger publications clubbed together and refused to deal with Ferrari until changes were made then it would probably happen. The problem is that the media's obsession with the next headline will always trump any responsibility they should have to do honest reports on these cars, rather then the "specials" they often get supplied.
In that sense the media (and I include EVO in this) are absolutely no better than Top Gear. It's just all entertainment innit. Wait until you see the next issue...
corozin said:
In that sense the media (and I include EVO in this) are absolutely no better than Top Gear. It's just all entertainment innit. Wait until you see the next issue...
That's not true at all. When did Top Gear ever do a Buyer review? As soon as a car is "old" they are no longer interested. They are for the NOW moment and anything in the past is old hat and not worth mentioning. Autocar did a few pages this month on buying great older cars in various guises, I wish Top Gear would do the same, but that is not their remit.
Their remit is appealing to Sun readers. You know, the people who wear fake breasts and saw off the wrong part of their shotgun.
Andy
And yet somewhat ironically Jeremy Clarkson is quite possibly the UK journalist least likely to pull his punches when he doesn't like a car, or something the manufacturer did. His piece on the GTO quite bluntly accused Ferrari of cashing in on the GTO name, and more or less dismissed the car itself as an overgrown Nintendo.
I think their pop at Bentley was genuine too.
That's the TV show I'm talking about. I don't know what the magazine is like now, it's much too TheScum Sun for me to wade through.
I think their pop at Bentley was genuine too.
That's the TV show I'm talking about. I don't know what the magazine is like now, it's much too The
RobM77 said:
Great Pretender said:
CampDavid said:
RDMcG said:
RobM77 said:
On a related note, did we ever establish whether the GTR vs 997TT saga at the ring (and other tracks in magazine track tests) was kosher and whetehr Nissan were using a representative GTR? I seem to remember that Porsche bought a customer GTR and couldn't get near the times, even with Rohrl at the wheel.
I never heard to outcome of this either. Doubtless its a great car, but would love so see a Sport Auto test or the like .The article was called "The Truth" but i don't have a copy and now DR is of course f
kedEven with it's significant power deficit, the C2S out-sprinted the Nissan.
Nothing new of course; Nissan were heavily challenged after it's 'standard' R33 GTR broke the 8 min barrier when no one could fathom how.
It always seemed strange to me how the 997TT was slower round the ring, because it's got a much lower centre of gravity, is lighter, and has around the same power. The tyres are the only thing I can think of.
If anyone else can remember the result of the DR test I'd be interested to know.
The C2S vs GTR comparison is surprising - does anyone remember the figures?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq1UZzJk6mw
RobM77 said:
That was fantastic - wish I'd taken more notice of driver's republic now - it just didn't work too well for someone who does most his reading on the bog.....RobM77 said:
Good find. Big balls!RobM77 said:
The C2S vs GTR comparison is surprising - does anyone remember the figures?
Yeah, very interesting, find it quite hard to believe really having seen the phenominal acceleration of the GTR a few times and driven a 997 C2S.Reference Ferrari owners being 'encouraged' not to lend their cars out for magazine test drives, is it just me who would take great pleasure in telling Ferrari to stick it up their arse?
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