RE: The Red Octagon Returns, Along With The 'K-Series
Discussion
kambites said:
Harji said:
I keep repeating, they copy not design. In everything from the feild I work in (Telecomms) to computers to software. Would you trust them to make a car? And why would you buy this one when compared to what can be had? Remove the MG badge, would it be on anyones radar?
How on earth can a manufacturer copy? They're just building something that a British company designed. I work closely with Chinese engineers and I'd trust them a damned slight further than, for example, the Americans that I work with. They have far greater technical integrity.
Now if you walk in and say "Here is a European design for a EuroNCAP 5* car, I want you to use top quality components which I will test before you proceed". You'll get a very different quality of product.
The question is...which route have MG taken. We will not know the answer until the cars have done a few miles. But there's nothing to stop them being good, just as much as there's nothing stopping them being bad.
kambites said:
How on earth can a manufacturer copy? They're just building something that a British company designed.
I work closely with Chinese engineers and I'd trust them a damned slight further than, for example, the Americans that I work with. They have far greater technical integrity.
they have copied routers, thay have copied swathes of software, they have copied designs of cars. and their is strong suspicion in the telecomms world that some of the 3g kit they use is not of their design from ground zero. Technical integrity they may have but to apply to design and development they are not at the forefront.I work closely with Chinese engineers and I'd trust them a damned slight further than, for example, the Americans that I work with. They have far greater technical integrity.
I'm working with Romanians at the moment, techincally they are very good but what they seem to lack is that willingness to investiagte a fault with more depth and application. They also do not talk about the investigations so as any engineer may learn from it. Whereas in Britain, some guys would never stop talking about a particualr issue or fault, you could get a cup of tea and they'll still be talking. However, at times the knowledge gained has been useful and can be applied.
Every country has a different way of working.
Harji said:
ok, cool. Has anyone seen the crash test for one chinese car? It was crashed at 40mph and, bascially the whole front end caved in. I will not trust Chinese manufacturing.
Yes it got 5 star in C-NCAP, their standards is just below Euro NCAP now (35MPH).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5yS3ohhWRQ
This is the MG6 crash mule tested at MIRA, it has undergone lots of testing at MIRA.
Edited by steven211 on Friday 18th February 17:33
Harji said:
they have copied routers, thay have copied swathes of software, they have copied designs of cars. and their is strong suspicion in the telecomms world that some of the 3g kit they use is not of their design from ground zero. Technical integrity they may have but to apply to design and development they are not at the forefront.
I'm working with Romanians at the moment, techincally they are very good but what they seem to lack is that willingness to investiagte a fault with more depth and application. They also do not talk about the investigations so as any engineer may learn from it. Whereas in Britain, some guys would never stop talking about a particualr issue or fault, you could get a cup of tea and they'll still be talking. However, at times the knowledge gained has been useful and can be applied.
Every country has a different way of working.
I think that is a bit sweeping, I mean this country has some excellent manufacturers in a particular field, but it also has some dire manufacturers in the same field, the same is probably true in China. I think often the problem is China is people from the West go there with a production proposal, and there are ways that the Chinese do business that means that what comes back is not necessarily what was expected, then the issue regarding legal system and business practices of being paid up front and almost impossible to sue to get money back! As I said earlier, I have no sympathy for these people because if quality is paramount to them, why not pay what the job is worth. Greed, of course, is as always the answer.I'm working with Romanians at the moment, techincally they are very good but what they seem to lack is that willingness to investiagte a fault with more depth and application. They also do not talk about the investigations so as any engineer may learn from it. Whereas in Britain, some guys would never stop talking about a particualr issue or fault, you could get a cup of tea and they'll still be talking. However, at times the knowledge gained has been useful and can be applied.
Every country has a different way of working.
ewenm said:
That power figure (147bhp) is pathetic for a turbo'd 1.8 - I've got a NA Rover 1.8 VVC K-Series in the Caterham that produces 160bhp out of the box and can easily be tuned to 190+ so how have they produced a 1.8 Turbo with less power than that? 
Hardly going to be racing car of the year, why take 200bhp out of it and severly dent economy and relibility. They will get more power out of it for a sports version, its not rocket science.russy01 said:
Hardly going to be racing car of the year, why take 200bhp out of it and severly dent economy and relibility. They will get more power out of it for a sports version, its not rocket science.
I think the problem here is that the fact this is an MG and not a Rover is upsetting people in terms of specific output. If it was a 150bhp Rover then a) it wouldn't have been mentioned on pistonheads at all and b) it wouldn't have attracted comments about bhp.Most people see MG as sporty Rovers, people are annoyed (I think( that this 'MG' isn't true to the badge.
ZeeTacoe said:
But their current fleet was designed before they took over. Lets see what happens when Geely start having some input
I think Geely will do what SAIC are doing, getting tech for Euro companies so Geely models will be developed by Volvo, it's a win/win for them, SAIC get UK engineers at MG so that is former BMW/Ford/MGR/Jaguar/LandRover engineers etc, majority in that list probably from Ricardo engineering, again it is a win/win. Edited by steven211 on Friday 18th February 19:27
The Crack Fox said:
I just don't know how to reply to this. Do you seriously think that Chinese buyers have the same buying criteria and product expectations as Europeans ? They are mugs if they think European buyers can be fobbed off with something designed and built for the Chinese market and sold at a premium with a poor warranty, unproven reliability, and a name that has too many failures associated with it.
Very different criteria, you're correct, but their aspirations are very similar to ours. You can walk into a VW showroom, for example, and either buy a "Chinese" (domestic manufactured) car or the equivalent imported European one for 50% more and this is for most volume models from Polos to Passats.
Many OEMs are cashing in on this gravy train as they effectively already have a whole range full of halo products in one of the largest markets in the world!
Nice added bonus as well that you can use the domestic product to test and validate the Chinese sourced parts and if they make the grade, they can subsequently be carried across onto the premium (western) products and yield significant cost reductions.
What is surprising is that they really give two fecks about some poxy little island whose Market potential amounts to so little!
The Crack Fox said:
MGJohn said:
Find out for yourself just how many cars the Chinese owners have sold in their home market ... The chinese are not mugs.
I just don't know how to reply to this. Do you seriously think that Chinese buyers have the same buying criteria and product expectations as Europeans ? They are mugs if they think European buyers can be fobbed off with something designed and built for the Chinese market and sold at a premium with a poor warranty, unproven reliability, and a name that has too many failures associated with it.What surprises me, having seen the MG6 myself, is how poor it is compared with the Rover 75 (which I rather liked). It is a huge step backwards. European buyer's expectations have leapt forwards thanks to decent offerings from elsewhere. MG/SAIC are on a hiding to nothing in this market here.
You removed the "elsewhere" from my quote thus putting a different slant on my posting... poor show.
What you are saying now, others years ago said much the same about Nipponese product when it first appeared on UK shores. Later, the same was said about car manufacturers from other Oriental locations.
Over thirty years ago, my father bought a yellow Toyota. It rusted away soon after being unloaded of the transporter ship. It was Crap with a capital K! However, things improved a tad since then.
Have you seen a PRODUCTION UK Spec MG6 ? I you have, please tell me where you bought your crystal ball. It must be a cracker ...
.
Munter said:
If you can't understand the point I'm making by now.
You're dumber than I thought possible and there's very little point you responding until you can grasp the very simple point I'm making.
Not all cars from a country are equal. Particularly when designed with VERY different requirements in mind. Not to mention when the design is done for one of them, in a totally different country.
You (being a bit dim it appears) are not comparing Apples and Apples. Hence in my response I also did not compare Apples and Apples.
If you cannot get this principle. Well...umm... this may be more your level: http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/
When you actually can compose a comprehensive statement , I might be able to make sense of it, until then stop getting your three year old to type out your favourite BBC link , and stand up and compose someting yourself. Don't get personal, go with your bedfellow and relax.You're dumber than I thought possible and there's very little point you responding until you can grasp the very simple point I'm making.
Not all cars from a country are equal. Particularly when designed with VERY different requirements in mind. Not to mention when the design is done for one of them, in a totally different country.
You (being a bit dim it appears) are not comparing Apples and Apples. Hence in my response I also did not compare Apples and Apples.
If you cannot get this principle. Well...umm... this may be more your level: http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/
Edited by Harji on Friday 18th February 23:44
steven211 said:
Yes it got 5 star in C-NCAP, their standards is just below Euro NCAP now (35MPH).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5yS3ohhWRQ
This is the MG6 crash mule tested at MIRA, it has undergone lots of testing at MIRA.
it's bloody not the one I was obviously talking about then is it! COS THIS ONE PASSED Jeez http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5yS3ohhWRQ
This is the MG6 crash mule tested at MIRA, it has undergone lots of testing at MIRA.
Edited by steven211 on Friday 18th February 17:33
zebedee said:
I think that is a bit sweeping, I mean this country has some excellent manufacturers in a particular field, but it also has some dire manufacturers in the same field, the same is probably true in China. I think often the problem is China is people from the West go there with a production proposal, and there are ways that the Chinese do business that means that what comes back is not necessarily what was expected, then the issue regarding legal system and business practices of being paid up front and almost impossible to sue to get money back! As I said earlier, I have no sympathy for these people because if quality is paramount to them, why not pay what the job is worth. Greed, of course, is as always the answer.
People go to China because it's cheaper, simple. My job is going to Romania, I am here assisting in the handover, so the 12 years I have gained through courses, qualifications, experience is compacted into 3 months for them. When I take my big fat redundancy I will not look back, but I will tell them how figues are massaged to make it look better than it really is.It's all about money, not quality, scarier when you are driving a car manufactured in India or China. More scarier when a Longbridge employee told me what they got up to on the production line.
The problem I find with China is, unlike Japan, there is really no past to it's car industry and it is trying to come in at the top. Would you as an employer value someone who worked their way up or tried to blag themselves in to the top?
Edited by Harji on Friday 18th February 23:48
steven211 said:
Roewe 550 is the same car as the MG6...
And I posted pics of the Brilliance BS6. I said A CHINESE CAR, I didnt say the Rowew 550, MG6, I said A CHINESE CAR. FFS I wish ppl would read first before posting, I was talking generally but it seems freedom of speech is deemed a crime on PH boards.Harji said:
And I posted pics of the Brilliance BS6. I said A CHINESE CAR, I didnt say the Rowew 550, MG6, I said A CHINESE CAR. FFS I wish ppl would read first before posting, I was talking generally but it seems freedom of speech is deemed a crime on PH boards.
I apologise, brilliance are a small company compared to SAIC though, they are pure Chinese cars.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff