RE: MG to reinvent sports car

[RTH]

A Lotus Elise that anyone can comfortably get in and out of that is quiet inside at speed and retails for under £18,000 in both proper fixed head and roadster with 140bhp and 70mpg below 800kgs

[onyx39]

CDP said:

PoleDriver said:

onyx39 said:

Curious but what sort of problems have you had?


I shall add a small list later...

Currently the drivers window does not fit properly, the fan only works on 2 speeds and the coolant needs bleeding. None of the jobs are massive, just need to find time to do them.

I wouldn't leave the coolant bleeding too long!

Get it done immediately. Neglecting the cooling system is just asking for HGF or worse. May as well replace the coolant while you're at it but check those pipes underneath the car. Mine rusted through in 6 years which was unforgivable and the loss of coolant is probably what caused my gasket to fail.

Did not drive the car this morning, as I was concerned. Coolant level has remained stable though.

[AntJD]

I think a simple reincarnation of the original MGB-GT would go down well. Along the lines of the Fiat 500 or the New Mini. A retro GT86 in a way.

[CDP]

onyx39 said:

Did not drive the car this morning, as I was concerned. Coolant level has remained stable though.

Dodgy coolant and failure of those front rear pipes killed a lot of T25s and MR2s (but not at 6 years) as well so it's not just an MG thing.

The six year bit was annoying though. Stainless steel pipes were only about £70 and should now outlast the car.

[onyx39]

CDP said:

onyx39 said:

Did not drive the car this morning, as I was concerned. Coolant level has remained stable though.

Dodgy coolant and failure of those front rear pipes killed a lot of T25s and MR2s (but not at 6 years) as well so it's not just an MG thing.

The six year bit was annoying though. Stainless steel pipes were only about £70 and should now outlast the car.

Quite odd though, I always expected that if I had a problem with coolant / temperature on the car it would involve the temp going upwards off the scale, rather than showing cold, which it currently does.

[kambites]

RTH said:

A Lotus Elise that anyone can comfortably get in and out of that is quiet inside at speed and retails for under £18,000 in both proper fixed head and roadster with 140bhp and 70mpg below 800kgs

Don't want much do you?

[macky17]

No need to reinvent the wheel - something really light without unnecessary modern equipment. Toyota are on the right lines with the GT86 - just give it a little more torque. RWD. Front or mid-engined.

[CDP]

onyx39 said:

Quite odd though, I always expected that if I had a problem with coolant / temperature on the car it would involve the temp going upwards off the scale, rather than showing cold, which it currently does.

Not if the sender isn't in contact with the water. Then it will show low or cold. Or a broken sender. In any case it sounds like attention is called for. Hopefully it isn't too serious but it will be if left.

I check the oil temperature gauge before driving hard. It can still be stone cold while the water shows normal.

[300bhp/ton]

macky17 said:

No need to reinvent the wheel - something really light without unnecessary modern equipment. Toyota are on the right lines with the GT86 - just give it a little more torque. RWD. Front or mid-engined.

But can you list what are "unnecessarily" modern equipment? As far as I know the GT86 still has:


-air con
-electric windows
-remote central locking
-alarm
-PAS
-traction control
-MP3 player
-air bags
-sound proofing
-well attired interior

[DonkeyApple]

CDP said:

andyps said:

Has anyone ever decided against an iPhone because it is made in China?

It says Apple on it so has to be beyond reproach.

This says MG so can't have any redeeming features until all vestiges of Britishness have been eliminated. Then it can be cool again.

Although, the iPhone is a very good example as it is not made in China.

It is assembled in China but the core working elements are made elsewhere. Britain for starters as that is where the expertise is for complex engineering.

Plus, no sane company would trust critical IP production in China.

[scarble]

300bhp/ton said:

But can you list what are "unnecessarily" modern equipment? As far as I know the GT86 still has:
-air con
-electric windows
-remote central locking
-alarm
-PAS
-traction control
-MP3 player
-air bags
-sound proofing
-well attired interior

All these need not weigh that much, just look at modern hatches like the Clio and 207, they can weigh in under a ton still. Sound proofing and "attire" would be the lowest on my list, well, after PAS, TC, ASM. Aircon is a luxury but nice to have, heated screen/mirrors more important. Electric windows/mirrors make sense.
No rear doors so you're saving money there
All we really need is a Clio (the 1.2 TCe is surprisingly poky for what it is), squash it vertically, put the drive at the other end, a bit more boost, put a bit of a slope on the back end. Simples.
The 86 is waay too luxurious for a proper sports car.

[kambites]

scarble said:

All these need not weigh that much,

True but they do, to one degree or another, cost money to develop and manufacture.

[scarble]

kambites said:

True but they do, to one degree or another, cost money to develop and manufacture.

nah, not that much.
you know they sell a basic version of the 86 in Japan? Steel wheels and un-painted bumpers, iirc it's closer to £17k. Don't think it has AC mind you. That's probably one of the most OTT features in modern cars actually, all stuffed in under the dash and things. Too hot? You've got windows..
You know what else costs money? Perceived quality.

Hmm.. do polycarb windows mist up?

[kambites]

Air bags are pretty expensive things. Heavy, too.

[CDP]

scarble said:

The 86 is waay too luxurious for a proper sports car.

There's very little kit in it that you don't get in a regular supermini. It's what the market expects.

It's not supposed to be an Elise just a fun everyday car that ordinary people can enjoy without having to apex Copse near flat out.

[heebeegeetee]

Personally I think the sports car is dead.

Only I don't have time to explain why.

[DonkeyApple]

heebeegeetee said:

Personally I think the sports car is dead.

Only I don't have time to explain why.

Rather than dead, I think it has changed.

The MGs and others we remember we're a result of social changes after the war, factories needing to deliver a product once military demand ended and a kind of euphoria combined with open roads. A new type of freedom. 100s of models were churned out by factories that already existed, cheap labour and a huge demand from the US.

Today there isn't the same US demand, roads are cluttered, freedom is old news, labour is costly, debt capacity low and there are no cheap and pre-tooled factories.

We are in a very different place today. There is still demand for the little two seater open top but it is not a new, booming market with huge overseas demand.

To try and replicate 60 years ago would be madness but to take the lessons learned, modify the product to suit today's domestic demands while fitting key overseas demand such as the vital Far East.

But, Western manufacturers are taking sales in China at the top end as luxury lifestyle sales. How could you sell a modest car to the Chinese when they can build far cheaper domestically? And how can you take the people's brand of MG sufficiently upmarket to sell as luxury goods?

As a brand they can build and sell in China but the UK models are too costly to export to those markets. It looks like any MG roadster would need to rely on domestic sales and now is not the time to be investing in fun lifestyle goods for the young for very obvious reasons.

[KingNothing]

300bhp/ton said:

But can you list what are "unnecessarily" modern equipment? As far as I know the GT86 still has:


-air con
-electric windows
-remote central locking
-alarm
-PAS
-traction control
-MP3 player
-air bags
-sound proofing
-well attired interior

In order for a new MG sports car to actually sell to "people" and not just "PH" it will need all that other stuff otherwise the wider public isn't going to be interested. Who's going to want to be driving along in their 63 plate sports cars, only to have to lean over the passenger to adjust the wing mirror manually, or stop the car and errect the roof manually.

[sly fox]

Not sure if anyone has already said this- but i think it's laughable that 'MG' think they actually have a heritage of building great sports cars in the first place, let alone reinvent one.

I have been a passenger in old MGs/MGBs many a time, driven an MGB GT too. Hideous things.
They were affordable little roadsters of their day, and people romanticise this to the extreme and ignore facts. Nasty engines, terrible handling, gearboxes that felt like you were stirring coal, unreliable, rusty i could go on. MG's were not great cars by any stretch of the imagination.

Guess that is the power of a badge. Easiest answer to what should be built is to follow what is currently successful- a drop top version of the GT86 would probably sell and put wide grins on customer faces. Why not build something like that?

[300bhp/ton]

sly fox said:

Not sure if anyone has already said this- but i think it's laughable that 'MG' think they actually have a heritage of building great sports cars in the first place, let alone reinvent one.

I have been a passenger in old MGs/MGBs many a time, driven an MGB GT too. Hideous things.
They were affordable little roadsters of their day, and people romanticise this to the extreme and ignore facts. Nasty engines, terrible handling, gearboxes that felt like you were stirring coal, unreliable, rusty i could go on. MG's were not great cars by any stretch of the imagination.

You must have been in some pretty ropey ones.

BTW - care to show me a Mazda or BMW sports car from the 60's or early 70's that was remotely as capable for similar money?