RE: Nissan Hits Back At GT-R Cheat Claims

[DiscoColin]

sjc said:

it doesn't explain the fact that untouched dynoed personal imports loaned to all the car mags have continually posted similar amazing stats against its opposition. I don't expect you to answer that as you never do when the same fact has been put in front of you several times.

Hmm - I went and googled the other day and Sport Auto (upon whose results the world used to rely for meaningful ring time comparisons) only got a 7:50 out of the GTR. Not quite similar to Nissan's banzai 'amazing stats' really is it. Oddly, the numbers for other manufacturers are generally somewhat closer to their claims. The ultimate point being that regardless of whether Nissan were employing any smoke or mirrors on their time - even if it were possible it would appear not to be representative. Consequently, I think that what everyone is ultimately questioning is not whether the time in question was somehow attained, but whether it is relevant...?

Note: didn't I hear that DR also managed to (just) out drag it with a stock Carrera S?

[sjc]

I give up.Yet another cherry pick of one article by a Porsche owner.
Read all the GTR threads on here ( several),all the answers are there. Pop on to PeterPeter,(GT3 owner, GTR deposit holder) blindswellrat,or my profiles and click on the threads we've contributed to. People are choosing to ignore all the explanitions,facts, independent reviews just because the GTR has done something that they don't understand.Once upon a time this was a car enthusiasts site.Does anyone honestly think that if Porsche had done something amazing, you'd have all this negativity? No, but because its a 50 grand Datsun all the badge snobs have an opinion.

[Old Geezer]

Has anybody watched that video?

Very smooth and fluid lap I thought.

Sort of lap that wins pole position every other week.

I am in no way a huge Jap car fan, but that Porsche still has the engine in the wrong place.

They have done great things with it, but as has been said, someone who drives that car well, would not feel comfortable in the GTR (IMHO) and therefore I'm not surprised they can't repeat that great lap that Mr Suzuki did.

It looks a great lap one of the best I've seen of the circuit.

Representative of what and average GTR owner could do?
COME ON WHO ARE YOU KIDDING??
How many owners EVER get the full performance from their cars, let alone the road test "specials" that ALL manufacturers provide to the press??

It was just a great lap in a great car by a great driver.
Roll on the next one.

Steve

[_Lee_]

DiscoColin said:

Note: didn't I hear that DR also managed to (just) out drag it with a stock Carrera S?

Yes.

It was very surprising the 385bhp 911 out-dragged the GTR. Think what a Turbo or GT2 would have done to it!

I actually wonder if something wasn't right on the GTR as the times on paper should have given the GTR a clear win.

[Dagnut]

I'll say this again. Can all the yanks and porsche fan boys please take note.

Top gear tested the gtr with an independent driver(the stig) around their short track it was quicker than the 911 turbo.

Fifth gear with Senna driving put it around anglesea( short track approx 59 seconds i don't have exact time) and it beat the 911 turbo..same driver same day no bias... if it can pull only a half second around anglesea it could could wipe the floor with it over the length of the ring.

also countless magazine and on line tests all independent have it quicker.


please shut up.

[Joecooool]

Dagnut said:

I'll say this again. Can all the yanks and porsche fan boys please take note.

Top gear tested the gtr with an independent driver(the stig) around their short track it was quicker than the 911 turbo.

Fifth gear with Senna driving put it around anglesea( short track approx 59 seconds i don't have exact time) and it beat the 911 turbo..same driver same day no bias... if it can pull only a half second around anglesea it could could wipe the floor with it over the length of the ring.

also countless magazine and on line tests all independent have it quicker.


please shut up.

And would you please note that several Japanese car companies have been caught in the past providing test cars that have more power and different suspension settings than the cars they sell to the public.

[thehawk]

Davey S2 said:

VladD said:

Also a lot of people buy Porsches as its a well known brand with a motorsport herritage second to none.

Is it? I would say Ford and Ferrari would have a better heritage.

But of course you are right in the rest of your post. Most Porsches are bought for the badge. Actual motorsport or driving enthusiasts that really appreciate the engineering and can drive the car to it's capabilities are the minority.

Most Porsches I've seen in London are driven by women for example.

[sjc]

Joecooool said:

Dagnut said:

I'll say this again. Can all the yanks and porsche fan boys please take note.

Top gear tested the gtr with an independent driver(the stig) around their short track it was quicker than the 911 turbo.

Fifth gear with Senna driving put it around anglesea( short track approx 59 seconds i don't have exact time) and it beat the 911 turbo..same driver same day no bias... if it can pull only a half second around anglesea it could could wipe the floor with it over the length of the ring.

also countless magazine and on line tests all independent have it quicker.


please shut up.

And would you please note that several Japanese car companies have been caught in the past providing test cars that have more power and different suspension settings than the cars they sell to the public.

Christ you're showing yourself up. Most of the test cars used in this country were untouched private imports.But I've said that 8 times on these threads now.........but you'll ignore it....again because then you'll be exposed as a bullstter of the highest order.........again.........not that it'll stop you trying to influence people .......again.....and you'll look like a bullstter again.....can you see a pattern?

[Murdock]

How many of these threads have there been now? I say that while we wait for an independently-regulated Turbo v GTR test at the 'Ring we should organise something similar for Joecoooool and sjc in the ring.

[peterpeter]

Joecooool said:

Dagnut said:

I'll say this again. Can all the yanks and porsche fan boys please take note.

Top gear tested the gtr with an independent driver(the stig) around their short track it was quicker than the 911 turbo.

Fifth gear with Senna driving put it around anglesea( short track approx 59 seconds i don't have exact time) and it beat the 911 turbo..same driver same day no bias... if it can pull only a half second around anglesea it could could wipe the floor with it over the length of the ring.

also countless magazine and on line tests all independent have it quicker.


please shut up.

And would you please note that several Japanese car companies have been caught in the past providing test cars that have more power and different suspension settings than the cars they sell to the public.

the reviews quoted above are all INDEPENDENT CARS you cretin.

One of he cars is owned by a chap called Ian Lichfield and the other Benjamin Linney. Both have had cars dynoed and both posted at just over 500bhp. Both were standard on stock tyres and both beat 911 turbos and GT3s tested. One car put in a lap time of 0.1 secs slower than a GT2 around bedford. Ian Lichfields car was 2.5 seconds quicker than a 997 RS round a 1.20 track.
It was a standard car and it slaughtered the RS.

Both cars have also put in performance figures to match Nissans times with LC OFF.

if you doubt, ring Licho and find out, and he can tell you to shut the fk up directly.

Edited by peterpeter on Wednesday 15th October 07:45

[sjc]

Murdock said:

How many of these threads have there been now? I say that while we wait for an independently-regulated Turbo v GTR test at the 'Ring we should organise something similar for Joecoooool and sjc in the ring.

Murdock,I went through the same with BMW owners when I bought a HSV GTS-R(1 of 12 in the UK) on here.The amount of people who slated it without even knowing what it was,(depreciation,build quality,even the interior colour FFS) let alone driving one was beyond belief.Then it appeared in a couple of mags with great reviews and then it got even worse,becasue it beat the M5 in some tests.
These ongoing threads about the GTRs are virtually non storys,not deserving more than 2 pages and yet they last 20 odd pages simply because the main protagonists ignore every FACT that is presented to them and then pipe up one page further on with the same crap even though its already been answered 20 times.As I've said, this used to be a car enthusiasts website, now its a place to sg someones choice of car, if its one that might remotely be better than what that person might have.

[hairykrishna]

Joecooool said:

hairykrishna said:

Joecooool said:

Nissan already stated that if you drive the car without the traction control on - like they did to get the 7:29 claimed time - you void the warranty.

This is not true, as far as I can see. Autoblog (who you link to in the other thread where you're bashing Nissan) certainly don't think so. It would seem that if you break your car with launch control, with traction control off, the warranty is voided. Simply switching off traction control does not.

You need to read them again. The warranty claim Nissan denied happened to a vehicle that broke with launch control (VDC) ON. Nissan voided the warranty because the car had previously been driven with the traction control off.

Get your facts straight.

Oh just fk off. I can't be arsed anymore - you're contradicting what it says in the article that YOU linked to in order to support your argument. You're either trolling or an idiot.

[stew-S160]

Joecooool said:

Dagnut said:

I'll say this again. Can all the yanks and porsche fan boys please take note.

Top gear tested the gtr with an independent driver(the stig) around their short track it was quicker than the 911 turbo.

Fifth gear with Senna driving put it around anglesea( short track approx 59 seconds i don't have exact time) and it beat the 911 turbo..same driver same day no bias... if it can pull only a half second around anglesea it could could wipe the floor with it over the length of the ring.

also countless magazine and on line tests all independent have it quicker.


please shut up.

And would you please note that several Japanese car companies have been caught in the past providing test cars that have more power and different suspension settings than the cars they sell to the public.

and would you please note that the GTR isn't sold here yet. the cars were provided by owners who have imported them or bought them from an importer. I hardly think Nissan UK would have had much to do with this.

[Streetrod]

Joecooool said:

Streetrod said:

Sorry , Have I missed something, which impossible figures are you talking about and what evidence do you have that the car was a ringer, and I mean real evidence?

The fact that both BMW and Porsche claimed foul. Porsche bought and tested a GT-R and came no where close to the advertised numbers. BMW on the other hand interviewed the team doing the testing and were told it had 693 hp.

Oh, and then there are the laws of physics...

Ok Joe, couple of things, if according to your source BMW were told that the GTR had 693hp then according to all your comments about the GT-R's rather fragile transmission I'm surprised it made it to the first corner without up chucking its transmission all over the ring.

Next according to a number of tests carried out in the US the GTR-R has been shown to produce more than the quoted 480hp, the average seems to be about 510-520HP, no where near 693HP. Even you would have to expect there to be discrepancies because the engines are hand built, as a drag racer you should know it’s the builder not necessarily the parts that make for good engine.

Now to my last point, I am a graduate with degrees in Physics and Quantum Mechanics, can I ask which particular laws of physics the GTR-R manages to break as I can see a potential Nobel prize if I can prove the laws of physics to be wrong???

[thekirbyfake]

_Lee_ said:

DiscoColin said:

Note: didn't I hear that DR also managed to (just) out drag it with a stock Carrera S?

Yes.

It was very surprising the 385bhp 911 out-dragged the GTR. Think what a Turbo or GT2 would have done to it!

I actually wonder if something wasn't right on the GTR as the times on paper should have given the GTR a clear win.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Porsche supplied was a ringer?

[Niffty951]

Streetrod said:

Even you would have to expect there to be discrepancies because the engines are hand built, as a drag racer you should know it’s the builder not necessarily the parts that make for good engine.

Very true point, something I have learnt from tuning road cars at a great cost!

Streetrod said:

Now to my last point, I am a graduate with degrees in Physics and Quantum Mechanics, can I ask which particular laws of physics the GTR-R manages to break as I can see a potential Nobel prize if I can prove the laws of physics to be wrong???

Now your just sounding American.. stop talking horse manure

[_Lee_]

thekirbyfake said:

_Lee_ said:

DiscoColin said:

Note: didn't I hear that DR also managed to (just) out drag it with a stock Carrera S?

Yes.

It was very surprising the 385bhp 911 out-dragged the GTR. Think what a Turbo or GT2 would have done to it!

I actually wonder if something wasn't right on the GTR as the times on paper should have given the GTR a clear win.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Porsche supplied was a ringer?

You could be right mate.

Something wasn't quite right in that sprint!

[Streetrod]

Niffty951 said:

Streetrod said:

Even you would have to expect there to be discrepancies because the engines are hand built, as a drag racer you should know it’s the builder not necessarily the parts that make for good engine.

Very true point, something I have learnt from tuning road cars at a great cost!

Streetrod said:

Now to my last point, I am a graduate with degrees in Physics and Quantum Mechanics, can I ask which particular laws of physics the GTR-R manages to break as I can see a potential Nobel prize if I can prove the laws of physics to be wrong???

Now your just sounding American.. stop talking horse manure

Niffty, it was a valid question, Joecool stated that the GTR-R broke the law of physics; I just wanted to know which ones he was referring too. Its not often I get to apply my education to one of my other passions which is cars.
And by the way I am very English, to imply that I sound American is very insulting.....LOL

[Dagnut]

Joecooool said:

Dagnut said:

I'll say this again. Can all the yanks and porsche fan boys please take note.

Top gear tested the gtr with an independent driver(the stig) around their short track it was quicker than the 911 turbo.

Fifth gear with Senna driving put it around anglesea( short track approx 59 seconds i don't have exact time) and it beat the 911 turbo..same driver same day no bias... if it can pull only a half second around anglesea it could could wipe the floor with it over the length of the ring.

also countless magazine and on line tests all independent have it quicker.


please shut up.

And would you please note that several Japanese car companies have been caught in the past providing test cars that have more power and different suspension settings than the cars they sell to the public.

Again Joe your wading in without knowing any facts, listening to forum rumours and and what basically amounts to propaganda. You are stereotypical of the the posters I have come across on this issue.
Nissan posted a second vid of it's ring time and some clown posted " yeah but your gearbox will fall out buy a Vette" totally irrelevant and untrue.
Let me just clarify the situation with both test cars used by Top Gear and Fifth gear, both cars are grey imports imported personally by the owners, completely standard Jap spec GTR's.
I have no vested interest in Nissan nor would I could consider myself a particular fan of any particular brand, I love cars end of. The only reason I am continually defending the GTR on this issue is because this is starting to escalate into one of those myths the internet seems to create, with something like cars where we have measurable quantity's and achievements and INDEPENDENT testers, and also where most people on the forums seem to be able to make balanced unbiased judgements this sh!t shouldn't be happening.
z01 is the bench mark around the ring now anyway, no one has questioned that time? because people are reasonable and wiling to accept GM have a great car and should be applauded.
I don't understand where the backlash against the GTR is coming from other then to say that "hardcore" Vette and 911 fan's must be unreasonable, biased a$$holes.

[Diderot]

_Lee_ said:

thekirbyfake said:

_Lee_ said:

DiscoColin said:

Note: didn't I hear that DR also managed to (just) out drag it with a stock Carrera S?

Yes.

It was very surprising the 385bhp 911 out-dragged the GTR. Think what a Turbo or GT2 would have done to it!

I actually wonder if something wasn't right on the GTR as the times on paper should have given the GTR a clear win.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Porsche supplied was a ringer?

You could be right mate.

Something wasn't quite right in that sprint!

Well, it pretty much stacks up. Porsche quote 4.3 to 62mph. So to 60, that may well equate to circa 4.0. The GTR in that Autocar vid was tested at 4.0 to 60mph.