RE: Porsche Cayman GT4 - official!

[CheesyFootballs]

ChrisW. said:

Well done, I'm sure you'll grant others the freedom that you have taken, to make their own mind up

My Lotus stranded me at an airport unable to open the boot to get my case out.

And my Porsches have never let me down, despite plenty of provocation on track.

I love the concept of Lotus, I just don't see the fulfilment of their dream ...

I asked Lotus about the effect of Track day use on their current cars --- I was the warranty on any ensuing warty claims would be invalidated. So I should remove the number plate.

Not a problem with Porsche ...

What conclusion would you draw from this ?

Absolutely - freedom to make your own mind up is a sure thing - as a poster above mine made his mind up to give his money to Porsche and not Lotus.
He gave his opinion, I gave mine. (perhaps you didn't see that before you wrote slightly condescending opening line )

I just didn't / don't / can't get on with Porsche cars anymore.
Can't put my finger on it, but I just feel 'comfier' in myself in a Lotus.

With regards to the warranty and track use - I think in the finer points of the small print 'racing or competitive racing' springs to mind (without going to look at mine).
Even BMW have refused a warranty claim on a popped engine whilst it was on a normal track day (since remedied to the positive)

My 996, whilst being a very low mileage and well looked after car let me down on numerous occasions!
My Lotus - never. (Ok, not yet....!)

And yes, I've seen you several times in your CR on track - we've even spoken before.....

Edited by CheesyFootballs on Friday 6th February 18:52

[ChrisW.]

MrBarry123 said:

Hmm...

I like it.

But when I look at a Cayman GTS I have a real desire for one. This I don't. Possibly because I could use the GTS every day whereas I think with this, I'd tire of it after a while, sell it and buy a GTS.

And then the people who'd buy this as a second/weekend/track car, wouldn't you just put a bit extra in and buy a GT3?

My choice was no.

Have you felt how much earlier you can get on the power through any corner, with mid engine ?

Sure I can use the weight transfer.

But particularly in the wet, this car is on a different level to the GT3.

And it will keep less experienced drivers out of trouble ...

The rear engine format is cool, but when you are chasing time, how many are qualified to really work the weight transfer, and not be caught out in a wet downhill bend at a speed where to lift is to spin and to put your foot down needs a very large brave pill and the skill to work the drift -- subject to the space required to do it !

[ChrisW.]

clarkey said:

It looks lovely, but it's going to be around £80k in the really desirable PH spec - clubsport, carbon buckets, PCCB. Seems a lot of money for a Cayman to me, even if it is a lovely one.......

And £25k or more less that a GT3 ??

And arguably a better car for most drivers ?

[ChrisW.]

Jim909 said:

Beautiful, I want 1

But omg that yellow is so so bad, its beyond terrible

Yellow, Maritime Blue or Viper Green -- the latter two with a big delay ?

I went for yellow.

Love it

[ChrisW.]

shigs said:

Wow what a week for cars its been!

Focus RS, 488 GTS and now this!

Hmmmm to call my local dealer or not....

'Missed this boat I fear ...

[ChrisW.]

DiscoColin said:

The 987R is very rare because not many people wanted one when it was launched (it was not a production constrained vehicle). Holding its value is relative - It has stabilised about 25% below what it cost new so people buying new did lose money (unlike its contemporary GT3s {in RHD}, which now trade above list).

The consideration with the 981 GT4 is that once specced this is not £64k, but more like £75-82k and with the current exchange rate you can still go to Europe and source a LHD 997.2 GT3 for that. It is still a bargain compared to the 991, but when you consider that most of its predecessors were Cayman Rs specced in the low to mid £50k range is certainly isn't cheap.

I own a Cayman R. Who bought one new at £55k with good spec ? This is £65k plus whatever you want to add which is spectacular. The brakes and suspension are GT3 for starters ... then there is the extra 50 plus BHP ... bargain !

[ChrisW.]

Wills2 said:

Interesting in the evo video that he states the car has a minimum of 385hp at 10,000ft and 40c etc. whilst smiling..I think they are sandbagging this cars power output more than usual.

4.4 to 62 from a RWD manual with no launch control eludes to more ponies than quoted in my opinion, what a cracking car.

There are some cars where Porsche ensure the figures make sense, but the reality is very different.

Maybe I am wrong, but I really feel that this car will surprise people.

Just like the 964RS did, five years after the Press panned it !!

At the time they even said that Porsche were irresponsible because in the RHD cars the speedo was invisible over 70 mph ... really.

Not the best, but !!

[ChrisW.]

RocketRabbit said:

Yes, tyres and depreciation will bother owners of this car.

A lot of people will buy thinking of this car as an asset and not a car so if it depreciates, they'll be a bit miffed and probably get shut.

Then there are the other people who walk in who can't afford a 911 GT3, but could 'stretch' to this. PCP arranged, £900/month and out they drive not being able to afford the fuel other than to work and back. I have seen plenty of people pull this stunt, especially with GTRs.

As for driving either car, of course I haven't. But who mentioned driving - I was on about the ownership experience.

This isn't a Ferrari, Lambo, or McLaren, it's an entry level Porsche.

Really ?

Really really ?

[isaldiri]

SidewaysSi said:

Totally agree. I was astonished at the comfort and sheer ability of the Exige V6 on the road. The Exige Cup is around £65k and would be a very tough rival for the GT4.

This is one of the major reasons why I'm wavering over the GT4.

On one hand I really am glad Porsche have made a car like the GT4 - small-ish, mainly analogue and manual only, built for involvement than outright speed (or at least per Preuninger's marketing spiel). However as a track focused car, the exige v6 cup is going to be >200kg lighter than the gt4 and admittedly not having tried either car yet, I would be hard put to believe that the v6 Cup is not actually considerably better than the gt4 at actually being a driver's car leaving leather/nav/build quality issues aside as neither car is likely to be the only car one is going to have I think.

[Charge99]

Whats the latest from dealers? Seems like demand is crazy and lots of deposits to be refunded! My local OPC (owned by Porsche) won't take a deposit yet, say they retuned too many for the 991 GT3, so it would be unethical until allocation confirmed. Other dealers seem to be taking lots of deposits, with no guarantee of a car!

I personally can't see these being a patch on the 911 GT3's... unless I get one!!

Watching the Evo interview the smile on the Porsche guy's face said it all for me, he's proud of what they've done and they aren't going to make many!

[ChrisW.]

RocketRabbit said:

I know people with a lot more money than me. They'd buy the GT3 (Or the Turbo S because they want to use it every day).

The only reason they'd buy this is because they'd expect it to be an asset but if it didn't gain 5% per year, their money would be better of elsewhere (Of which they'd know). GT Porsches are tulips at the moment!

This is a poser car. Hardcore drivers' won't buy it.

How can I tell? Look at the posts previous. All of them refer to the look, the colour, the options, the resale value, how awesome does that rear wing look (but no mention about the downforce it provides). Nout on steering feel, tramlining, engine response, even noise has been missed! Only a couple of posts about the gearbox (Manual and long gearing).

And RocketRabbit is a spoiler

The worst of PH ... look at his history ...

[ChrisW.]

Foggy748]he Pits said:

No-one here seems to care about the electric steering any more but they should. Porsche are really short-changing their fans there. I expected the Cayman S I drove last year to have some feel. It had none whatsoever. The car responded beautifully to steering inputs of course (hence the confusion) but there was nothing coming back whatsoever....'

Totally with you on the steering feel. There is none.

And the press have said ? Nothing so far.

And of course the highly regarded 991 GT3 doesn't have the same steering ??

Why would you even bother to write it ?

[ChrisW.]

The Pits said:

You lot give Porsche a very easy time. The general consensus among ph and in car magazines seems to be that Porsche make the ultimate driving machines bar none.

That is just not the case.

Brilliant all-rounders yes, that is their strength. They make daily useable sports cars and there are compromises involved in achieving that. Fine for most people, most of the time - clearly - but they are not the be-all and end-all for fast car fans, which is what we are currently led to believe. A Lotus Exige V6 is harder work for daily use but it offers so much more communication than a Cayman S it's not even funny. The breadth of ability of the Cayman is extraordinary but you can't expect a car that is so at home in London traffic to deliver like a more dedicated, track-focused car around Silverstone. Yet the story we're sold is that it's the best car everywhere. Reality does not square up to that in my experience.

Lotus are about to launch a 400bhp, chargecooled Evora with the finest power steering currently available for a similar price. No doubt there will be queues round the block for the Cayman, premiums flying about too but I would be amazed if even 5% of prospective GT4 owners will even try the Lotus. I have no doubt the GT4 will be an excellent car but its sad that UK buyers can't find a bit more enthusiasm for the sportscars made over here too.

Then let them offer a proper warranty to include track days ...

You can't have it both ways ... well you can ask, but hopefully somebody will notice.

[ChrisW.]

The Pits said:

The speculators have all gone Porsche mad. With RHD 997 GT3RS4.0 hitting £400k now everyone thinks they'll be getting paid to rag a GT4 for a few thousand miles. This GT car frenzy is getting out of hand and we will see some very crazy borrowed money being thrown recklessly about until it all goes pop in a very big way. Look at the classifieds - they are full of GT3RS4.0, all the original owners cashing in and who can blame them? This looks to me like a great time to sell and a potentially ruinous time to buy. Beware of the hype phers! It's just a car, nothing to bet your life savings on. And it's worth having a look at how much fun (and performance) you can buy second hand for £15k once in a while.

Save yourselves

Honest !!

[ChrisW.]

The Pits said:

All GT3s used to depreciate until recently, even RS's. The GT4 is not a limited production car so Porsche will churn them out in large numbers to satisfy the obvious demand. Massive under supply in 2015 might see some premiums changing hands. But just watch them fly out of the factories in 2016. Once the bubble bursts it will depreciate, you can be sure of that.

And the guy can read the future as well.

Somebody sign him up as a Fund manager !!

I am sorry to be having a go, but you are trying to pee on somebody's party ..

[twinturban]

isaldiri said:

This is one of the major reasons why I'm wavering over the GT4.

On one hand I really am glad Porsche have made a car like the GT4 - small-ish, mainly analogue and manual only, built for involvement than outright speed (or at least per Preuninger's marketing spiel). However as a track focused car, the exige v6 cup is going to be >200kg lighter than the gt4 and admittedly not having tried either car yet, I would be hard put to believe that the v6 Cup is not actually considerably better than the gt4 at actually being a driver's car leaving leather/nav/build quality issues aside as neither car is likely to be the only car one is going to have I think.

230kgs lighter.
No electric power steering.
No struts - wishbones front and cast aluminium at the rear.
Bespoke Nitron 2 way adjustable dampers.
No £5k Carbon seats (they are standard).
2-piece floating disc brakes.
Baffled sump.
430bhp available for £6k.
No rude hand signals.
No friends like Chris W.

[ChrisW.]

Sampaio said:

Exactly... why would anyone think the Evora isn't just as (if not more) adequate for the track than a Cayman GT4??

Maybe it is?

But that is another topic ...

Why use this topic to flog the Evora which may-be ?

When the Evora launches, we will all be interested ... let Lotus show how good it is ...

Will it be at Geneva ??

[SidewaysSi]

twinturban said:

isaldiri said:

This is one of the major reasons why I'm wavering over the GT4.

On one hand I really am glad Porsche have made a car like the GT4 - small-ish, mainly analogue and manual only, built for involvement than outright speed (or at least per Preuninger's marketing spiel). However as a track focused car, the exige v6 cup is going to be >200kg lighter than the gt4 and admittedly not having tried either car yet, I would be hard put to believe that the v6 Cup is not actually considerably better than the gt4 at actually being a driver's car leaving leather/nav/build quality issues aside as neither car is likely to be the only car one is going to have I think.

230kgs lighter.
No electric power steering.
No struts - wishbones front and cast aluminium at the rear.
Bespoke Nitron 2 way adjustable dampers.
No £5k Carbon seats (they are standard).
2-piece floating disc brakes.
Baffled sump.
430bhp available for £6k.
No rude hand signals.
No friends like Chris W.

Agree-the Exige Cup is a stunning piece of kit with usability and feel by the bucketload.

ChrisW are you going through the previous 15 pages of this thread and digging out anything remotely negative anyone has said about the GT4? Yes, you bought one. We all get it.

[ChrisW.]

jamieduff1981 said:

I've just learned something about myself.

I was completely indifferent to the car, but saw this fairly large thread and skim read the article trying to feign interest.

I'm still completely indifferent to the car. Whatever it is that people like about Porsches doesn't work for me. I can't put my finger on it - but they bore me to tears.

The interesting thing though is I've just acknowledged to myself for the first time ever that a massive thread filled almost entirely with people fawning over it is all the reason I'll ever need not to buy one. It turns out I get genuine enjoyment from choosing less obvious cars.

The perfect driver's car, apparently, gives me zero reward as a driver. I could walk past one in the street and not give it a second glance.

Congratualtions ... you are still indifferent, how satisfying

[ChrisW.]

unpc said:

jamieduff1981 said:

I've just learned something about myself.

I was completely indifferent to the car, but saw this fairly large thread and skim read the article trying to feign interest.

I'm still completely indifferent to the car. Whatever it is that people like about Porsches doesn't work for me. I can't put my finger on it - but they bore me to tears.

The interesting thing though is I've just acknowledged to myself for the first time ever that a massive thread filled almost entirely with people fawning over it is all the reason I'll ever need not to buy one. It turns out I get genuine enjoyment from choosing less obvious cars.

The perfect driver's car, apparently, gives me zero reward as a driver. I could walk past one in the street and not give it a second glance.

Amen brother. Does nothing for me either but you have to admire their business model. Tweak a bit here and there and they'll be fizzing at the bung hole. Seems to work every time.

So you are missing nothing.

Why post ?