Financially best way to buy a car?
Discussion
Fox- said:
daemon said:
Fleet sales and hire car companies get 40% off list on something like a focus, why wouldnt a large leasing company?
List price on a Focus is a meaningless figure, anyone can get substantial discounts on a Focus list price, even Mr Joe. A lease company wont be paying 40% less than the lowest price Mr Cash Buyer would acheive through some haggling, irrespective of what the list price is.
k sake - read what i put "If a lease company get a 40% discount on a Focus, and take a 10% profit, then thats still going to work out better for you or i than a 20% discount that you or i could achieve?" I never f
king said they got 40% MORE than you or i.Just f
king read the posts before you start will you?Edited by daemon on Friday 26th November 14:31
Fox- said:
Take a BMW 5 Series at £29k for a 520d. You think a leasing company is buying those for under £20k do you? Seriously? You honestly think that? They are simply ordering them through local dealers like everyone else - with a bit more discount but not enough discount that the leasing cost over 3 years will be less than the depreciation cost over 3 years on a properly haggled private deal.
Once-a-fking-gain i NEVER said anything about BMWs - i specifically fking said '40% on a focus'.It was an EXAMPLE
Edited by daemon on Friday 26th November 14:32
soxboy said:
NoelWatson said:
Agent Orange said:
NoelWatson said:
Yes, looked through those, but am looking for some proper analysis rather than some salesman BS posted by a car leasing company that seems plausible on initial viewing but doesn't hold up to rigorous analysis. Where do I find that?
My understanding is it this. You need to look at the total cost of ownership of a car not just the initial purchase price.Simplistically with property the maintenance you spend on it will pay dividends in future years as the value of that property rises. Of course this is only relevant when you sell it.
With a car, a bar a very few exceptions ie. collectibles, any money spent on maintenance will be lost in the resale value that will be less than your purchase price and significantly less that the purchase price plus the maintenance costs.
You bought the car for £20K but that's not its cost to you that is just the initial purchase price. To keep that car working requires additional expenditure. Add in servicing, repair bills, tax, tyres, petrol etc. etc. etc. over the period of ownership and divide by the number of months. That is how much that car costs you a month to own.
If like me you use your car drive up and down the motorway each day sticking miles on it the re-sale is likely to be lower than the old retired guy who bought the identical car and potters to the shops occasionally.
I may have got a stunning deal on my car when I bought it. The old man might have paid full sticker price for his. Doesn't matter much because although I got £2K off my purchase price his car is worth £3K more than mine.
In which case my understanding is I should never buy the cars I have given how I use them. I'd be better off putting some of the cash I intended to spend on a car towards a lease deal and paying the monthly amount smoothing out and fixing my costs over the "ownership" of the vehicle.
I could then use remainder of the cash I'd intended to buy the vehicle with to offset the mortgage further.
Someone tell me if I'm wildly out here because I've either just had an epiphany or I'm considering financial suicide...
Have a look at the CLK deal I posted earlier, that's an example of finance being better than cash. I reckon as a rough estimate I have saved £2500 over 2 years by doing PCP rather than buying.
In 2004 I bought a brand new BMW 318Ci for cash, in two years of ownership I lost £8750 in depreciation, or 40% of value. It took me 3 months to sell it with no interest at all, eventually selling back to a dealer for £13250.
After that I had an A4 cabrio, which I had on personal lease from 07 to 09. I paid £7930 in payments over 2 years. The list price was £28,500 which there was no scope for shifting from, 2 years later I could have bought it at the end of the lease for £13,750 (and in hindsight really wish I had!). It was later advertised at a main dealer for £19,000. If I bought cash I reckon I may have lost £10k on it in that period, £2k/ 20% more than the lease payments.
In my mind finance is not always better than cash, conversely cash is not always better than finance. I have no link with the motor trade so no vested interest.
(by the way, the £13250 from the sale of the BMW was used as a vital part of investment in starting a commercial property portfolio, my share of which is now £180,000 equity in 4 years - the cash is working very well elsewhere)
NoelWatson said:
soxboy said:
NoelWatson said:
Agent Orange said:
NoelWatson said:
Yes, looked through those, but am looking for some proper analysis rather than some salesman BS posted by a car leasing company that seems plausible on initial viewing but doesn't hold up to rigorous analysis. Where do I find that?
My understanding is it this. You need to look at the total cost of ownership of a car not just the initial purchase price.Simplistically with property the maintenance you spend on it will pay dividends in future years as the value of that property rises. Of course this is only relevant when you sell it.
With a car, a bar a very few exceptions ie. collectibles, any money spent on maintenance will be lost in the resale value that will be less than your purchase price and significantly less that the purchase price plus the maintenance costs.
You bought the car for £20K but that's not its cost to you that is just the initial purchase price. To keep that car working requires additional expenditure. Add in servicing, repair bills, tax, tyres, petrol etc. etc. etc. over the period of ownership and divide by the number of months. That is how much that car costs you a month to own.
If like me you use your car drive up and down the motorway each day sticking miles on it the re-sale is likely to be lower than the old retired guy who bought the identical car and potters to the shops occasionally.
I may have got a stunning deal on my car when I bought it. The old man might have paid full sticker price for his. Doesn't matter much because although I got £2K off my purchase price his car is worth £3K more than mine.
In which case my understanding is I should never buy the cars I have given how I use them. I'd be better off putting some of the cash I intended to spend on a car towards a lease deal and paying the monthly amount smoothing out and fixing my costs over the "ownership" of the vehicle.
I could then use remainder of the cash I'd intended to buy the vehicle with to offset the mortgage further.
Someone tell me if I'm wildly out here because I've either just had an epiphany or I'm considering financial suicide...
Have a look at the CLK deal I posted earlier, that's an example of finance being better than cash. I reckon as a rough estimate I have saved £2500 over 2 years by doing PCP rather than buying.
In 2004 I bought a brand new BMW 318Ci for cash, in two years of ownership I lost £8750 in depreciation, or 40% of value. It took me 3 months to sell it with no interest at all, eventually selling back to a dealer for £13250.
After that I had an A4 cabrio, which I had on personal lease from 07 to 09. I paid £7930 in payments over 2 years. The list price was £28,500 which there was no scope for shifting from, 2 years later I could have bought it at the end of the lease for £13,750 (and in hindsight really wish I had!). It was later advertised at a main dealer for £19,000. If I bought cash I reckon I may have lost £10k on it in that period, £2k/ 20% more than the lease payments.
In my mind finance is not always better than cash, conversely cash is not always better than finance. I have no link with the motor trade so no vested interest.
(by the way, the £13250 from the sale of the BMW was used as a vital part of investment in starting a commercial property portfolio, my share of which is now £180,000 equity in 4 years - the cash is working very well elsewhere)
NoelWatson said:
Can you repost the link please.
Heres a thought - go and fking look for it yourself. The guy was decent enough to take the time to explain it to you - at least TWICE now, the least you can do is fking get your thumbs out of your ass and look for his post.If people like you didnt post so much dross it would be a lot easier for people to find the useful f
king information in this thread.Edited by daemon on Friday 26th November 14:57
daemon said:
NoelWatson said:
Can you repost the link please.
Heres a thought - go and fking look for it yourself. The guy was decent enough to take the time to explain it to you - at least TWICE now, the least you can do is fking get your thumbs out of your ass and look for his post.If people like you didnt post so much dross it would be a lot easier for people to find the useful f
king information in this thread.Edited by daemon on Friday 26th November 14:57
Edited by NoelWatson on Friday 26th November 14:59
soxboy said:
NoelWatson said:
soxboy said:
NoelWatson said:
Agent Orange said:
NoelWatson said:
Yes, looked through those, but am looking for some proper analysis rather than some salesman BS posted by a car leasing company that seems plausible on initial viewing but doesn't hold up to rigorous analysis. Where do I find that?
My understanding is it this. You need to look at the total cost of ownership of a car not just the initial purchase price.Simplistically with property the maintenance you spend on it will pay dividends in future years as the value of that property rises. Of course this is only relevant when you sell it.
With a car, a bar a very few exceptions ie. collectibles, any money spent on maintenance will be lost in the resale value that will be less than your purchase price and significantly less that the purchase price plus the maintenance costs.
You bought the car for £20K but that's not its cost to you that is just the initial purchase price. To keep that car working requires additional expenditure. Add in servicing, repair bills, tax, tyres, petrol etc. etc. etc. over the period of ownership and divide by the number of months. That is how much that car costs you a month to own.
If like me you use your car drive up and down the motorway each day sticking miles on it the re-sale is likely to be lower than the old retired guy who bought the identical car and potters to the shops occasionally.
I may have got a stunning deal on my car when I bought it. The old man might have paid full sticker price for his. Doesn't matter much because although I got £2K off my purchase price his car is worth £3K more than mine.
In which case my understanding is I should never buy the cars I have given how I use them. I'd be better off putting some of the cash I intended to spend on a car towards a lease deal and paying the monthly amount smoothing out and fixing my costs over the "ownership" of the vehicle.
I could then use remainder of the cash I'd intended to buy the vehicle with to offset the mortgage further.
Someone tell me if I'm wildly out here because I've either just had an epiphany or I'm considering financial suicide...
Have a look at the CLK deal I posted earlier, that's an example of finance being better than cash. I reckon as a rough estimate I have saved £2500 over 2 years by doing PCP rather than buying.
In 2004 I bought a brand new BMW 318Ci for cash, in two years of ownership I lost £8750 in depreciation, or 40% of value. It took me 3 months to sell it with no interest at all, eventually selling back to a dealer for £13250.
After that I had an A4 cabrio, which I had on personal lease from 07 to 09. I paid £7930 in payments over 2 years. The list price was £28,500 which there was no scope for shifting from, 2 years later I could have bought it at the end of the lease for £13,750 (and in hindsight really wish I had!). It was later advertised at a main dealer for £19,000. If I bought cash I reckon I may have lost £10k on it in that period, £2k/ 20% more than the lease payments.
In my mind finance is not always better than cash, conversely cash is not always better than finance. I have no link with the motor trade so no vested interest.
(by the way, the £13250 from the sale of the BMW was used as a vital part of investment in starting a commercial property portfolio, my share of which is now £180,000 equity in 4 years - the cash is working very well elsewhere)
Munter said:
daemon said:
Munter said:
daemon while posting a dross post said:
If people like you didnt post so much dross it would be a lot easier for people to find the useful fking information in this thread.
Irony. Strong. Right here?king information in this thread.kWHIT. Apart from the fact you keep filling up the thread with dross that is.Going to leave this thread now. too many people trying too hard to be difficult, to justify their own thinking
I've made my point many pages back.
All the best.
Edited by daemon on Friday 26th November 15:08
NoelWatson said:
A bit hard to do analysis as car doesn't appear to be made any more.
Noel, I don't mean to sound rude but FFS you asked for a real world example and I have given you one - there's not much more I can do! Why is that hard to analyse? The fact that the car is no longer made in November 2010 is immaterial.
Please could you answer, with a straight 'yes' or a 'no' whether for my example money was saved by going down the PCP route?
soxboy said:
NoelWatson said:
A bit hard to do analysis as car doesn't appear to be made any more.
Noel, I don't mean to sound rude but FFS you asked for a real world example and I have given you one - there's not much more I can do! Why is that hard to analyse? The fact that the car is no longer made in November 2010 is immaterial.
Please could you answer, with a straight 'yes' or a 'no' whether for my example money was saved by going down the PCP route?
soxboy said:
Why is that hard to analyse?
Because it is impossible to1. See what discount brokers were offering (if any) if buying for cash at the time
2. Seing what depreciation was predicted at the time.
soxboy said:
Please could you answer, with a straight 'yes' or a 'no' whether for my example money was saved by going down the PCP route?
Unfortunatelty insufficient data to say yes or no
NoelWatson said:
soxboy said:
NoelWatson said:
A bit hard to do analysis as car doesn't appear to be made any more.
Noel, I don't mean to sound rude but FFS you asked for a real world example and I have given you one - there's not much more I can do! Why is that hard to analyse? The fact that the car is no longer made in November 2010 is immaterial.
Please could you answer, with a straight 'yes' or a 'no' whether for my example money was saved by going down the PCP route?
soxboy said:
Why is that hard to analyse?
Because it is impossible to1. See what discount brokers were offering (if any) if buying for cash at the time
2. Seing what depreciation was predicted at the time.
soxboy said:
Please could you answer, with a straight 'yes' or a 'no' whether for my example money was saved by going down the PCP route?
Unfortunatelty insufficient data to say yes or noGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff