RE: Porsche Cayman GT4 - official!
Discussion
-Z- said:
georgeq said:
Standing on the side lines for all of this I asked my OPC about the status and he spilled some beans. He says the demand for the GT4 is absolutely unprecedented. He had more order requests for the GT4 on its launch day than for the 981 Cayman and Cayman S combined on their launch. A lot of the orders are from people he didn't expect to want this type of car (Cayenne Diesel drivers) and many intending to finance which he says is also untypical for GT cars.
It's up to Porsche to handle these numbers now. The GT4 will either command a big premium for a long time or the market will be flooded with cheap mid-engine manual sportscars... admittedly the latter seems rather unlikely.
Funny how times change - the Cayman R was in similar spirit albeit not as hardcore and wouldn't sell at all.
The Cayman R was a gawky, weedy looking thing. That was what set it back more than anything else IMO.It's up to Porsche to handle these numbers now. The GT4 will either command a big premium for a long time or the market will be flooded with cheap mid-engine manual sportscars... admittedly the latter seems rather unlikely.
Funny how times change - the Cayman R was in similar spirit albeit not as hardcore and wouldn't sell at all.
Have you driven one ?
(Can you drive one ?) ... sorry.
Maybe this is why they are holding their value so well ...
-Z- said:
I'm almost definitely wrong but I don't think this will ape the 991GT3 appreciation curve.
HNW individuals are driving the 991 GT3 appreciation because they want the newest and best and its chump change to a lot of them, especially with so few being produced.
Why would one of them buy a GT4? If they like manuals then they invest in a 997 GT3/RS.
This has a big market but at £65k I don't think the target market of upper middle class have enough spare cash to fund long term large scale appreciation (see a previous post about the OPC saying a very high number being sold on PCP compared to normal GT cars). I reckon it will trade over initially like Macan for example but then settle into a BMW 1M like curve of nil depreciation or mild appreciation.
And for whom would that be a problem ?HNW individuals are driving the 991 GT3 appreciation because they want the newest and best and its chump change to a lot of them, especially with so few being produced.
Why would one of them buy a GT4? If they like manuals then they invest in a 997 GT3/RS.
This has a big market but at £65k I don't think the target market of upper middle class have enough spare cash to fund long term large scale appreciation (see a previous post about the OPC saying a very high number being sold on PCP compared to normal GT cars). I reckon it will trade over initially like Macan for example but then settle into a BMW 1M like curve of nil depreciation or mild appreciation.
Edited by -Z- on Thursday 5th February 23:25
Buy a new car and it will cost you money ..
Buy a new Porsche and keep it, and it will cost you far less than any similarly priced car --- so far
Clever Porsche. Clever purchasers.
ChrisW. said:
unpc said:
jamieduff1981 said:
I've just learned something about myself.
I was completely indifferent to the car, but saw this fairly large thread and skim read the article trying to feign interest.
I'm still completely indifferent to the car. Whatever it is that people like about Porsches doesn't work for me. I can't put my finger on it - but they bore me to tears.
The interesting thing though is I've just acknowledged to myself for the first time ever that a massive thread filled almost entirely with people fawning over it is all the reason I'll ever need not to buy one. It turns out I get genuine enjoyment from choosing less obvious cars.
The perfect driver's car, apparently, gives me zero reward as a driver. I could walk past one in the street and not give it a second glance.
Amen brother. Does nothing for me either but you have to admire their business model. Tweak a bit here and there and they'll be fizzing at the bung hole. Seems to work every time. I was completely indifferent to the car, but saw this fairly large thread and skim read the article trying to feign interest.
I'm still completely indifferent to the car. Whatever it is that people like about Porsches doesn't work for me. I can't put my finger on it - but they bore me to tears.
The interesting thing though is I've just acknowledged to myself for the first time ever that a massive thread filled almost entirely with people fawning over it is all the reason I'll ever need not to buy one. It turns out I get genuine enjoyment from choosing less obvious cars.
The perfect driver's car, apparently, gives me zero reward as a driver. I could walk past one in the street and not give it a second glance.
Why post ?
FrankAbagnale said:
Possibly a silly Q - but can the GT4 be specced in Orange/Green?
I've been on the porsche configurator and it's silvers, blacks, blues, red and yellow. Nothing a bit "garish".
Choose what you want --- there are some bright colours but special colours are expensive and create delivery delays ... so maybe interesting for later delivered cars where interesting colours add exclusivity ?I've been on the porsche configurator and it's silvers, blacks, blues, red and yellow. Nothing a bit "garish".
SidewaysSi said:
Agree-the Exige Cup is a stunning piece of kit with usability and feel by the bucketload.
ChrisW are you going through the previous 15 pages of this thread and digging out anything remotely negative anyone has said about the GT4? Yes, you bought one. We all get it.
You are quite right.ChrisW are you going through the previous 15 pages of this thread and digging out anything remotely negative anyone has said about the GT4? Yes, you bought one. We all get it.
I've never taken the trouble or had the inclination to go through a thread like this before ...
It will be interesting to see what the Press say about this car.
I was one of the people who believed in the BMW M3 CSL which Evo panned and on which i lost my shirt.
They now say it was fab
This forum is for those who have waited an eternity for the dream that they held for a really sporting Cayman.
None of them wish to be told ow foolish they were ...
So here I am, having a little fun at the expense of the spoilers ... Maybe it will be me who is out of tilt with the market, but this time I think that Porsche have really tried and I hope, got to right.
Reasons to encourage them ...
Time to start an Evora post ?
I would love for Lotus to squeeze Porsche out of this market. If they do. it will be a very very good car and I will buy one ...
But .. and I last spoke to the local Lotus dealer just before Christmas...
ChrisW. said:
SidewaysSi said:
Maybe because he likes winding people like you up. You are really coming across as a cock.
I shall leave you to you cockiness .. SidewaysSi said:
I am not sure that makes any sense. We digress...the Cayman is not a 911 and I will be very surprised if they have sorted the steering so in some ways it will never be a true great.
Well we will both have to be patient. I have yet to see any driver comment and can only surmise that the GT3 rack in the Cayman will be as good as the GT3 rack in the GT3 ... but owning a Cayman R, maybe I will decide to keep it ?39H said:
I need some advice please, im speccing up my GT4 and down to a few now, Id like to keep my family car..Macan Diesel so have to stick to a kind of budget Ive added the full bucket seats and added leather along with various other colour, xenon etc but my dilemma is do I opt for CS package or PCM, I can afford both!...help!
I'd go all the way with CS and radio delete but that's just me.39H said:
I need some advice please, im speccing up my GT4 and down to a few now, Id like to keep my family car..Macan Diesel so have to stick to a kind of budget Ive added the full bucket seats and added leather along with various other colour, xenon etc but my dilemma is do I opt for CS package or PCM, I can afford both!...help!
I think best to think about focus for the car and let that decide the spec, i.e. Are you creating a road car or track car? That should give your answer.What's the view on carbon ceramics? £5k seems an awful lot for me, esp as I've always found modern brakes can usually always lock up modern tyres even with track use (I'm not the hardest on the brakes). Never driven a car with one, but I get the impression that they work best for road use, where it's the ride they improve due to weight, but on track there is risk they can wear out quickly an cost a fortune! Correct?
Finally for those who have deposits placed, what assurances have dealers given that you will actually get a car? Have they disclosed positions on lists?!
39H said:
I need some advice please, im speccing up my GT4 and down to a few now, Id like to keep my family car..Macan Diesel so have to stick to a kind of budget Ive added the full bucket seats and added leather along with various other colour, xenon etc but my dilemma is do I opt for CS package or PCM, I can afford both!...help!
I think best to think about focus for the car and let that decide the spec, i.e. Are you creating a road car or track car? That should give your answer.What's the view on carbon ceramics? £5k seems an awful lot for me, esp as I've always found modern brakes can usually always lock up modern tyres even with track use (I'm not the hardest on the brakes). Never driven a car with one, but I get the impression that they work best for road use, where it's the ride they improve due to weight, but on track their is risk they can wear out quickly and cost a fortune! Correct?
Finally for those who have deposits placed, what assurances have dealers given that you will actually get a car? Have they disclosed positions on lists?!
Edited by Charge99 on Friday 6th February 22:39
39H said:
I need some advice please, im speccing up my GT4 and down to a few now, Id like to keep my family car..Macan Diesel so have to stick to a kind of budget Ive added the full bucket seats and added leather along with various other colour, xenon etc but my dilemma is do I opt for CS package or PCM, I can afford both!...help!
I have specced CS with the passenger 6 points and bucket seats, but when I have time I do a lot of track days, and I want to make more time for this.On the CR there wasn't a CS option and I can say that the bucket seats would hold you very well ... so there really isn't any "need" to go for the CS option.
I guess I just feel that I am creating car which in my ind, is the spiritual successor of the 964RS N-GT that I owned --- but that became too precious to really work.
If I bin the GT4 it is an insurance issue rather than an aberration of history !
We all play this "specification" game in our own way, --- it is the only privilege of buying new when unless in a silly market, values can only fall. On the other hand, I will have owned my CR for four years and 35000 miles with a cost at the moment from new, of around £20,000.
One year in racing cost me this ... and I wasn't that good so saved £10000 on potential tyre costs ...
Everybody finds their own answers
Charge99 said:
I think best to think about focus for the car and let that decide the spec, i.e. Are you creating a road car or track car? That should give your answer.
What's the view on carbon ceramics? £5k seems an awful lot for me, esp as I've always found modern brakes can usually always lock up modern tyres even with track use (I'm not the hardest on the brakes). Never driven a car with one, but I get the impression that they work best for road use, where it's the ride they improve due to weight, but on track their is risk they can wear out quickly and cost a fortune! Correct?
Finally for those who have deposits placed, what assurances have dealers given that you will actually get a car? Have they disclosed positions on lists?!
I like them very much, but the standard brakes are GT3 steels which should be more than up tp the job.What's the view on carbon ceramics? £5k seems an awful lot for me, esp as I've always found modern brakes can usually always lock up modern tyres even with track use (I'm not the hardest on the brakes). Never driven a car with one, but I get the impression that they work best for road use, where it's the ride they improve due to weight, but on track their is risk they can wear out quickly and cost a fortune! Correct?
Finally for those who have deposits placed, what assurances have dealers given that you will actually get a car? Have they disclosed positions on lists?!
Edited by Charge99 on Friday 6th February 22:39
The advantages of PCCB's are:
1. Lack of brake dust
2. lack of corrosion if parked outside
3. Reduced unsprung mass which can allow the suspension to work better particularly on bumpy roads
4. In long sessions they will resist brake fade in a way that steels will not --- but the GT3 brakes are much better than the steel Cayman S brakes which were probably not quite good enough for track work.
5. Discs can last a very long time ..
The disadvantages are:
1. Can be damaged in gravel traps and by tyre fitters !
2. Need to have pads changed when half worn to manage heat soak (balanced by longer disc life versus steels)
3. Can be a little dead if wet (particularly on dewy mornings) --- so need gently warming from cold for reliable braking asap
4. Would be very expensive if you needed to replace them, unless replaced with Steel which is a real option ..
So, for your £5k you get the advantages of PCCB's unless you destroy them --- when you can just add big steel discs making continuing use of the larger callipers.
I hope that helps ...
ChrisW. said:
Sampaio said:
Exactly... why would anyone think the Evora isn't just as (if not more) adequate for the track than a Cayman GT4??
Maybe it is?But that is another topic ...
Why use this topic to flog the Evora which may-be ?
When the Evora launches, we will all be interested ... let Lotus show how good it is ...
Will it be at Geneva ??
The new-ish Evora will be in Geneva, yes. Hoping for a good one!
ChrisW. said:
That's not what the GT3 drivers I passed or my passengers said on track
Have you driven one ?
(Can you drive one ?) ... sorry.
Maybe this is why they are holding their value so well ...
Maybe you got confused while you were finding every negative Cayman post but I didn't say anything about how it drove.Have you driven one ?
(Can you drive one ?) ... sorry.
Maybe this is why they are holding their value so well ...
Making the point about passing GT3s on track is such a cliche, otherwise ask the 911 Turbo driver I lapped repeatedly ten years ago in my Civic Type R what he thinks of Civics
I just made the point that I haven't really met anyone who thinks the Cayman R (or any other 987) is a spectacularly good looking car (unlike the 981).
Value wise the Cayman R only seems to be trading about £4k above the normal 3.4S Cayman. Indeed they have lost 23% in 3yrs. A good performance, but not spectacular and well beaten in desirability by the 1M as the comparative depreciation curves prove.
Sampaio said:
People were saying the GT4 is a track-focused car and the Evora is just a daily sports car. I believe things are not quite like that, hence my response. (besides, I'm definitely not flogging the Lotus, quite the opposite)
The new-ish Evora will be in Geneva, yes. Hoping for a good one!
I seem to recall The Wookie on here had described the Evora as being about halfway between a standard Carrera and a GT3 in terms of its focus and how it felt on road and track. So, I expect a fair bit more comfort and a little more softness than a GT4 but it can still have fun on track without issues (e.g. AP brakes).The new-ish Evora will be in Geneva, yes. Hoping for a good one!
Looks like ChrisW had a rather long liquid lunch celebrating his place in the queue for a GT4.
SidewaysSi said:
Agree-the Exige Cup is a stunning piece of kit with usability and feel by the bucketload.
ChrisW are you going through the previous 15 pages of this thread and digging out anything remotely negative anyone has said about the GT4? Yes, you bought one. We all get it.
I'd be nervous of spunking over £65K on a car that comes with a 1 year, 6,000mile warranty.ChrisW are you going through the previous 15 pages of this thread and digging out anything remotely negative anyone has said about the GT4? Yes, you bought one. We all get it.
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