Dealers only make a little on car sales, I'm not having it!

[berlintaxi]

daemon said:

berlintaxi said:

Nice to see you resort to petty insults if someone has a different opinion to you, classy.

Ah right, like you did about me several pages back?

Maybe if you cant take it, dont dish it out.

I think you'll find I asked a reasonable question about your earnings as a car dealer, obviously that touched a nerve with you, so tell me if it wasn't the career for you why do feel the need to contribute to every motor dealer thread as if you are Arnold Clark?

Perhaps you could point out where I acted like a ""? This is a car enthusiast forum, am I interested in cars Yes, am I interested in what dealers have to say No.
From what I can see this thread is about financial issues so why should car salesmen get upset? Nearly 18% of this thread is made up of contributions from you, why so much to say on an industry you obviously don't work in?

I'll refrain from lowering myself to the gutter which is obviously your natural level, judging by your choice of language.

Edited by berlintaxi on Friday 12th December 16:51

[daemon]

berlintaxi said:

I think you'll find I asked a reasonable question about your earnings as a car dealer, obviously that touched a nerve with you, so tell me if it wasn't the career for you why do feel the need to contribute to every motor dealer thread as if you are Arnold Clark?

No you were making a pointed comment about my previous role to be a smart ass. My personal earnings from motor trading bear no relevance to this thread and you were frankly trying to be a about it.

And i didnt ever say it wasnt the career for me - and DEFINITELY not on this thread thus were just trying to be a - merely that there wasnt enough money in it for me. Like many people on here i'm passionate about cars and passionate still about selling cars and the motor industry generally.

I didnt realise i needed to be Arnold Clark before you deemed me worthy to comment on this thread.

berlintaxi said:

Perhaps you could point out where I acted like a ""?

Perhaps you should read through some of your own posts, particularly the one where you tried to have a dig at me about my previous job role and money i may or may not have made. Unnecessary and irrelevant and you were just being a .

berlintaxi said:

This is a car enthusiast forum, am I interested in cars Yes, am I interested in what dealers have to say No.

Well given this thread had a questioned posed about the net profit on new cars, it was going to be very fking hard for the O/P to get any sort of a response without involving the motor trade, so if its such a hardship for you to read posts from the motor trade why not fk off elsewhere? You're certainly not adding value here, so dont feel you have to stay.

berlintaxi said:

From what I can see this thread is about financial issues so why should car salesmen get upset?

I dont think the car salesmen are getting upset, merely bemused that once again they have given an opinion and once again people who have no experience of the motor trade feel they know better and know how to tell the motor trade how to do their job.

berlintaxi said:

I'll refrain from lowering myself to the gutter which is obviously your natural level, judging by your choice of language.

Why dont you just refrain from being a to people and refrain from posting further?

Edited by daemon on Friday 12th December 17:00

[berlintaxi]

You really are a sad little individual aren't you. always feel the need to have the final say, always carrying the chip of failure around with you and striking out when people upset you.
I wish you good day and hope that one day you wake up and realise how truly pathetic you come across, my sympathies to your family having to put up with you.

[daemon]

berlintaxi said:

You really are a sad little individual aren't you. always feel the need to have the final say, always carrying the chip of failure around with you and striking out when people upset you.

I have no issues with the fact that i did a couple of years trading, wholly enjoyed it, but couldnt get as much money out of it as i had to and therefore moved on.

What i do have issue with is you and grandfondo at EVERY fkING opportunity sniping that i "failed" at motor trading. Get over it - it was five years ago FFS.

berlintaxi said:

I wish you good day and hope that one day you wake up and realise how truly pathetic you come across, my sympathies to your family having to put up with you.

Oh get over yourself. Patheticness is trying to undermine people by bringing up their past repeatedly in a negative light.

Maybe if your own life wasnt so sad you wouldnt have to try to bring others down.

Edited by daemon on Friday 12th December 17:08

[daemon]

Folks i apologise for my part in disrupting this thread.

Needed to get that out of my system.

Now, new car profit margins?

[Ozzie Osmond]

daemon said:

Now, new car profit margins?

Dacia or Pagani?

[daemon]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Dacia or Pagani?

LOL

We've had a Dacia guy on telling us.

Pagani anyone?

[Ozzie Osmond]

20%

[Fast Bug]

berlintaxi said:

Nice to see you resort to petty insults if someone has a different opinion to you, classy.

You realise that you make yourself look a pillock don't you? Maybe Daemon shouldn't bite when you and Grandfondo or whatever his name try to get a rise out of him, but I can imagine it's hard with your constant baiting. I've also seen you post on other threads about Daemon when he's not been involved in them, so what is your issue? Do yourself a favour and step back and read some of your own posts and ask yourself if that's something that a schoolboy would write, or a grown up.

[Roo]

When I used to have to write my departmental budgets they used to be based on a GPU of £250 chassis profit for new cars.

[Monkeylegend]

Roo said:

When I used to have to write my departmental budgets they used to be based on a GPU of £250 chassis profit for new cars.

How much did you budget for the rest of the car?

[Sheepshanks]

daemon said:

berlintaxi said:

daemon said:

And then people wonder why the motor traders generally don't bother posting anymore...

Apart from you, does anybody really give a toss whether the motor trade post or not? Or is that we are all meant to be in awe at their musings?

As has already been said - there are active motor traders on here who could give an insight into the workings of the motor trade, and given this is a motoring forum many seem to find it useful when they do.

Frankly, a lot of them dont bother now because of attitudes from a small minority such as you.

I personally think that is a loss for the forum as a whole, just so one or two can get on like pricks.

A couple of the car salesmen that post on here (one using his real name and the other in the US but pretty easy to figure out who he is) just seem to want to insult customers most of the time. Bizarre behaviour on a car forum.

[Grandfondo]

Fast Bug said:

You realise that you make yourself look a pillock don't you? Maybe Daemon shouldn't bite when you and Grandfondo or whatever his name try to get a rise out of him, but I can imagine it's hard with your constant baiting. I've also seen you post on other threads about Daemon when he's not been involved in them, so what is your issue? Do yourself a favour and step back and read some of your own posts and ask yourself if that's something that a schoolboy would write, or a grown up.

[AW111]

I think it is a pity that there are some (salesmen and non-salesmen) whose tttish behaviour tends to ruin threads like this.

It is an interesting question : with a lot of dealerships going "glass palace", does the increased sales cover the cost?
I assume it must, or the accountants would not have signed off on the investment.




ps Here in Aus, Mercedes have pursued an aggressive policy of buying out independant specialists. Those who don't sell get letters threatening dire consequences if they use any Merc trademarked signage, ie the 3 pointed star.

pps I agree with Sheepshanks : the few salesmen who post sneering remarks about people being too poor to buy present a very off image, whatever the provocation.

[ncbbmw]

JPJPJP said:

Take that Clio example and run it vanilla

Renault makes the car, Renault specs the dealership, helps train the staff, does 80% of the marketing, organises finance and most of the logistics and grants dealer geographic exclusivity to some extent

Dealer takes and processes order, with opportunity to sell profitable addons. Punter pays deposit, car arrives, dealer gets paid

Time passes

Dealer pays Renault for car

Dealer should earn a bit from that, but not much

130 is about right IMO for this scenario

Different for stock cars, used, etc, but fine for vanilla

Renault makes the car.
True

Renault specs the dealership.
Enforces minimum standards that the dealer must achieve and pay for.

Helps train the staff.
Issues minimum training requirement for technical, sales and aftersales staff, usually between 3-5 days per member of staff, in most franchises this will be invoiced to the dealer at a minimum of £300.00 per day, (plus hotel costs).

does 80% of the marketing
And charges the Dealer a % value of new car turnover, £50+ per car is not unusual

organises finance
selling manufacture finance will be compulsory wuth targets to achieve, zero % apr will likely earn the dealer nil.

most of the logistics
Ah! The customer pays for that one, delivery charges! :-)

and grants dealer geographic exclusivity to some extent
That died with the internet, although its in the car makers interest for its dealers to make a profit so its reasonable to have some miles between sites,

Dealer takes and processes order, with opportunity to sell profitable addons. Punter pays deposit, car arrives, dealer gets paid

Time passes, Dealer pays Renault for car
Usually 24 hours after the car is registered with the dvla.

Gross profit in new cars at full list would make dealers a healthy profit however those days are long gone.

£130 GROSS profit from 2-3 peoples time, probably equal to a days work for one person, hardly a fortune and just about enough to pay for their time.

[anonymous-user]

9

ncbbmw said:

Renault makes the car.
True

Renault specs the dealership.
Enforces minimum standards that the dealer must achieve and pay for.

Helps train the staff.
Issues minimum training requirement for technical, sales and aftersales staff, usually between 3-5 days per member of staff, in most franchises this will be invoiced to the dealer at a minimum of £300.00 per day, (plus hotel costs).

does 80% of the marketing
And charges the Dealer a % value of new car turnover, £50+ per car is not unusual

organises finance
selling manufacture finance will be compulsory wuth targets to achieve, zero % apr will likely earn the dealer nil.

most of the logistics
Ah! The customer pays for that one, delivery charges! :-)

and grants dealer geographic exclusivity to some extent
That died with the internet, although its in the car makers interest for its dealers to make a profit so its reasonable to have some miles between sites,

Dealer takes and processes order, with opportunity to sell profitable addons. Punter pays deposit, car arrives, dealer gets paid

Time passes, Dealer pays Renault for car
Usually 24 hours after the car is registered with the dvla.

Gross profit in new cars at full list would make dealers a healthy profit however those days are long gone.

£130 GROSS profit from 2-3 peoples time, probably equal to a days work for one person, hardly a fortune and just about enough to pay for their time.

Seems ok in that scenario.

The car contributes to back end targets, it has wiped its face as a transaction and the sale gave the dealer the opportunity to sell polish, insurances etc. and could give the dealership opportunity to earn on servicing in the future.

How much do other people think the dealer should make on such a transaction?

[Rincewind209]

daemon said:

Rincewind209 said:

daemon said:

Thankyou4calling said:

Thanks for the self analysis, much appreciated.

Now, I don't know your role at Audi Northampton but if you made 0.7% profit V turnover, quite clearly that is poor. Well below industry norm.

Haven't seen your accounts, post them up and i'll make some comments and recommendations, I won't even charge for the advice mate.

And then people wonder why the motor traders generally don't bother posting anymore...

Published accounts do provide a reasonable indication of how much money is made.

Unlikely that someone is going to post them up though isnt it?

http://www.pendragonplc.com/main_content/pdf/results_performance/2013_annual_reports
A link to Pendragons 2013 accounts, as published. It clearly shows that the profit margin on new cars is 7.6%. Now as you pointed out Pendragon struggled a bit, so presumably they are not particularly good at making money. So that would indicate that other dealers make more perhaps? Also as you point out the business made only 2% net profit, but that is the overall performance and not the amount of profit on a new car.

[daemon]

Rincewind209 said:

http://www.pendragonplc.com/main_content/pdf/resul...
A link to Pendragons 2013 accounts, as published. It clearly shows that the profit margin on new cars is 7.6%. Now as you pointed out Pendragon struggled a bit, so presumably they are not particularly good at making money. So that would indicate that other dealers make more perhaps? Also as you point out the business made only 2% net profit, but that is the overall performance and not the amount of profit on a new car.

My point was that TYFC was suggesting someone gets their (non public company) actual accounts and publish them on here as proof, which is what i meant wasnt going to happen.

Again, this is gross profit on a new car. You can see therefore why once direct and indirect costs are removed we get back to a few hundred per car, and thus why salesmen / dealers are saying that theres extremely little left in the deal for them, once a customer gets the discount they expect.

But again, its about volume and ROI for the dealer. Just like TESCO dont make much on a tin of peas, they sell a lot of tins of peas.

[andymc]

I can't see the problem, I couldn't care what someone makes, if I like it I buy it it, no one forces you to buy cars

[daemon]

andymc said:

I can't see the problem, I couldn't care what someone makes, if I like it I buy it it, no one forces you to buy cars

Thats really the bottom line isnt it? If you dont like buying a new car from a "glass palace" either buy a used car privately or a new one from a broker. Simples.