The illusion of SUV safety
Discussion
lostkiwi said:
Most people that buy SUVs do so because the SUV they buy is NOT a focused vehicle.
I think that's BS. Most people in the UK buy a SUV because it's the default, unthinking choice. In reality for the majority, the only 'need' is schoolgate cachet, or suchlike.I much more impressed by an appraisal such as Spoof's, previously on this thread. I saw similar on another thread and was impressed by the figures the owner gave from a trip to the south of France. Likewise on a recent trip to the Alps, I was impressed by how a pals XC60 drove.
I do think that people who don't drive well (for one reason or another) gravitate to these vehicles, which imo is rather unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Just spare me the 'need'. It never ceases to amaze me how when you cross over to the continent the 'need' all but evaporates. As someone has said, you can be out and about up in real country, in some proper terrain with proper weather and the 4x4s you see are likely to have British plates. Everyone else just uses ordinary cars (although as I said before, the Panda 4x4 seemed popular
).European cities can have lots of smart cars, British cities can have loads of 4x4s. Because need.
heebeegeetee said:
European cities can have lots of smart cars, British cities can have loads of 4x4s. Because need.
SUV's fastest growing sector in European car markethttp://europe.autonews.com/article/20150317/ANE/15...
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20140109/ANE/13...
heebeegeetee said:
lostkiwi said:
Most people that buy SUVs do so because the SUV they buy is NOT a focused vehicle.
I think that's BS. Most people in the UK buy a SUV because it's the default, unthinking choice. In reality for the majority, the only 'need' is schoolgate cachet, or suchlike.In think in those case many have a requirement for the space/security/flexibility/driving position that an SUV gives over a standard hatchback/estate/MPV.
My own experience in October in the Auvergne (where we were at an altitude of 100m or more the whole time) showed a great number of French registered 4x4s on the roads. We didn't see a single UK plated one in the area (but then we only saw one other UK plate in the area anyway.
One thing that may be a reason for your own observations is the efficiency with which the continental countries clear their roads. In the area we were we talked to the locals about the winter and access to the village (we were staying in Chassignolles which is a remote village and looking to buy a house to use as a holiday let there so access all year is an important feature for us) and they said that even in the worst weather when the snow is up to a metre deep the roads are cleared within hours. Here that doesn't happen - I lived in the Peaks and in the last snow fall I experienced there (2012) one of the local roads out of our town wasn't cleared for over a week. Granted we only get weather like that on occasion but still some people will factor it into their car buying criteria.
heebeegeetee said:
lostkiwi said:
Most people that buy SUVs do so because the SUV they buy is NOT a focused vehicle.
I think that's BS. Most people in the UK buy a SUV because it's the default, unthinking choice. In reality for the majority, the only 'need' is schoolgate cachet, or suchlike.I much more impressed by an appraisal such as Spoof's, previously on this thread. I saw similar on another thread and was impressed by the figures the owner gave from a trip to the south of France. Likewise on a recent trip to the Alps, I was impressed by how a pals XC60 drove.
I do think that people who don't drive well (for one reason or another) gravitate to these vehicles, which imo is rather unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Just spare me the 'need'. It never ceases to amaze me how when you cross over to the continent the 'need' all but evaporates. As someone has said, you can be out and about up in real country, in some proper terrain with proper weather and the 4x4s you see are likely to have British plates. Everyone else just uses ordinary cars (although as I said before, the Panda 4x4 seemed popular
).European cities can have lots of smart cars, British cities can have loads of 4x4s. Because need.
There is also the matter of space to also consider. The amount of space available to a middle class household in the UK is quite a bit smaller than on the Continent. Meaning more middle class families compromise on cars. At the same time, our public transport network is far superior in terms of reach and so many more households can operate with just one car. Again that tends to lead to compromise.
We can also look at the crossover SUV market, with the demographic inversion of the Baby Boomers, their wealth and income being greater than workers there is more demand for these types of cars because they are more accessible. When you are older and after you've moved from the Boxster to the 911 phase you will find that you just can't get in and out of your 911 comfortably but want to keep with the Pirsche brand, well the Cayenne Turbo will give you all the performance your senile faculties can handle.
It's very easy to look at stereotypes such as mummies at the school gates or orange people in the way to the manicurist but let that not obscure the reality that for general day to day road use these modern SUVs are evolved from hatchbacks and estates and are very clearly deemed more practical. All the convenience of a hatchback or estate plus better line of sight and easier to get in and out of and certainly easier to hoist dead weights in and out of.
As utility transport devices the modern SUV is a better proposition than the equivalent hatchback or estate that it has evolved from.
Rangies are a slightly different breed as they have evolved to be more carlike from its 4x4 origins and so still retains that DNA but people who keep banging on about modern SUVs referring to them as 4x4s and talking about off-roading etc haven't properly understood what these cars are and where they have evolved from.
Of course we can look at the new Bentley and raise our eyebrows but ultimately we are PHers and I bet it will be a new type of performance driving experience. To pooh pooh a car because of what type of person might be inside instead of celebrating the ability or plain silliness of it is something best left to Daily Mail punters don't you think?
doogz said:
What do you suggest I tow a 3.5 trailer with? If I don't need a 4x4?
What sort of car should I use for the 3 months of the year when the snow outside my house is several feet deep and my A4 quattro, or even my quad bike couldn't get in or out?
That can also seat 7 people, or fit a wardrobe inside? Or a couple of guitar amplifiers and a few guitars? Or my welding equipment?
Look forward to hearing what I should be driving.
A Chinook. What sort of car should I use for the 3 months of the year when the snow outside my house is several feet deep and my A4 quattro, or even my quad bike couldn't get in or out?
That can also seat 7 people, or fit a wardrobe inside? Or a couple of guitar amplifiers and a few guitars? Or my welding equipment?
Look forward to hearing what I should be driving.
Driving home off the motorway following traffic at 60. I'm happy to admit that I was tired and thinking about other stuff. Car in front starts to brake gently as do I. I then realised he was braking rather hard, and I was heading towards him at a rate of knots. Slam my brakes on, ABS chatters on the damp road, still gaining and it's not going to end well. Quick glance left, and emergency lane change. Not just a lane change, a proper drive around the back, where you can feel the wheel's dig in....
Now by some standards, in my XC60 I should be on my roof. But I'm not, the car stays composed, and deals with my idiocy calmly and serenely.
Now by some standards, in my XC60 I should be on my roof. But I'm not, the car stays composed, and deals with my idiocy calmly and serenely.
Bill said:
I had to swerve to avoid a deer yesterday, not only did I not end up on my roof, I also missed Bambi. And then drove home down my lane that's awash with mud and cows
t that would have had wossisname above on his crotch rocket on his arse.
Luxury. In a Classic you just have to hit them and hope a new bumper crops up on EBay soon. t that would have had wossisname above on his crotch rocket on his arse.One thing I won't be doing in my cars is swerving for anything.
Bill said:
It was instinct as it popped into the head light beam before I'd even registered what it was.
I think with deer it's very difficult just because of the size of them, not so much muntjacs but roe certainly. Overcoming the natural instinct to swerve isn't exactly easy. Maybe we need to start with 'gateway' obstacles like pheasants and work our way up.
Well done for avoiding that deer, i always try and avoid wildlife if at all possible. But then i spend a lot of my time and own money supporting and protecting wildlife so i would, i guess.
We just missed a Coyote and then almost immediately after that a Black Bear in August in central California. I would have hated hated hated hitting the latter.
We just missed a Coyote and then almost immediately after that a Black Bear in August in central California. I would have hated hated hated hitting the latter.
DonkeyApple said:
It's very easy to look at stereotypes such as mummies at the school gates or orange people in the way to the manicurist but let that not obscure the reality that for general day to day road use these modern SUVs are evolved from hatchbacks and estates and are very clearly deemed more practical. All the convenience of a hatchback or estate plus better line of sight and easier to get in and out of and certainly easier to hoist dead weights in and out of.
As utility transport devices the modern SUV is a better proposition than the equivalent hatchback or estate that it has evolved from.
I agree about not resorting to stereotypes but are they really better in terms of utility?As utility transport devices the modern SUV is a better proposition than the equivalent hatchback or estate that it has evolved from.
An equivalent SUV will be more expensive to run and offer no more interior space than an equivalent hatch/estate. Yes you sit higher which some people like and you may have to bend less when getting stuff in and out, but you don't need to by an SUV to get these attributes. You are paying to lug a heavy 4x4 system around with you that costs more to maintain, results in worse fuel economy and robs interior space.
I think that the many buy them because they are fashionable. There's nothing wrong with that, the majority of us buy certain things for the same reason. After all many of the current breed of SUVs look a damn site better than the alternatives.
The thing that supprised me most of all was just how impractical they were. Baby number 3 is on the way so I was on the look out for a vehicle that could accomdate 3 child seats in the back. I had mistakenly assumed that the reason why families bought SUVs was because it was preferable to a people carrie once you got past 2 kids. Well if you have three kids the majority of affordable SUVs are useless because they don't have any more space in the back than a standard family hatch and due to be heavy drive train the boot also tends to be rather shallow on many of them.
It would be folly to claim that many are not bought as fashion statements in exactly the same way every single other niche of car has the same group.
It doesn't seem logical to single out one niche over another for this human trait as they are all equal.
I'm not sure why you'd expect the inside of an SUV where the exterior is the same width as the same sized car to be larger. It's not the Tardis
It doesn't seem logical to single out one niche over another for this human trait as they are all equal.
I'm not sure why you'd expect the inside of an SUV where the exterior is the same width as the same sized car to be larger. It's not the Tardis
DonkeyApple said:
It would be folly to claim that many are not bought as fashion statements in exactly the same way every single other niche of car has the same group.
It doesn't seem logical to single out one niche over another for this human trait as they are all equal.
I'm not sure why you'd expect the inside of an SUV where the exterior is the same width as the same sized car to be larger. It's not the Tardis
I didn't look at the actual dimensions, i'd just made an assumptoin based partly on what someone had told me about why they were popular. I subsequently realised it was incorrect.It doesn't seem logical to single out one niche over another for this human trait as they are all equal.
I'm not sure why you'd expect the inside of an SUV where the exterior is the same width as the same sized car to be larger. It's not the Tardis
I agree, most niches have some element of fashion statement about them, but some less than others. No one would buy a Toyota Corrolla Verso (we have one) as a fashion statement, but a Toyota Landcruiser or Rav4 are different.
Devil2575 said:
The thing that supprised me most of all was just how impractical they were. Baby number 3 is on the way so I was on the look out for a vehicle that could accomdate 3 child seats in the back. I had mistakenly assumed that the reason why families bought SUVs was because it was preferable to a people carrie once you got past 2 kids. Well if you have three kids the majority of affordable SUVs are useless because they don't have any more space in the back than a standard family hatch and due to be heavy drive train the boot also tends to be rather shallow on many of them.
You looking at the wrong SUV 
http://www.chevrolet.com/suburban-suv.html
skyrover said:
Devil2575 said:
The thing that supprised me most of all was just how impractical they were. Baby number 3 is on the way so I was on the look out for a vehicle that could accomdate 3 child seats in the back. I had mistakenly assumed that the reason why families bought SUVs was because it was preferable to a people carrie once you got past 2 kids. Well if you have three kids the majority of affordable SUVs are useless because they don't have any more space in the back than a standard family hatch and due to be heavy drive train the boot also tends to be rather shallow on many of them.
You looking at the wrong SUV I was refering to things like the X-Trail and similar sized SUVs.
Bloody SUVs! I only drive one because I wasn't thinking, can't drive for st and wanted to look good at the school gates. If I crash I hope it's into a smart car or something because if I roll it, i'm in deep st, apparently.
Really, if you roll a car, you've either:
A been spectacularly unlucky, or B been smashed into by an unthinking can't drive SUV owning tt.
If it does happen, i'd like to be in something large with plenty of headroom, like in the back of a transit or something.
Do I win a prize?
t and wanted to look good at the school gates. If I crash I hope it's into a smart car or something because if I roll it, i'm in deep st, apparently.Really, if you roll a car, you've either:
A been spectacularly unlucky, or B been smashed into by an unthinking can't drive SUV owning t
t.If it does happen, i'd like to be in something large with plenty of headroom, like in the back of a transit or something.
Do I win a prize?
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