RE: Chris Harris video: McLaren P1

[bubney72]

It's been really bugging me that the P1 reminds me of another car, definitely Japanese. Today I've figured it out. Behold the P1 predecessor

[E65Ross]

Dagnut said:

E65Ross said:

Dagnut said:

007 VXR said:

Dagnut said:

I think game changer is a bit over the top, it seems like a brilliant car, but it's not showcasing any exclusive technology, it's not shattering any performance records....what exactly has this changed?

It's a million pound short run supercar at the end of the day,this car has not moved the bar on enough to be called a game changer when there are 2 cars from competitors out there one of which hasn't even been tested.

Thats not what most are saying/thinking...

Journalists prone to patriotic hyperbole? what a surprise...this car may be brilliant in every way but there is nothing it does that moves bar so enough to be called a game changer...there are other road cars just as fast and comfortable and there are track cars just as fast...probably none that do both like this car but is that enough to be a game changer?
We are in a unique era where all these million pound cars are simply sold on spec..agera r, huayra, 918, La Ferrari, P1..they all sold so they don't really seem to be in competition with each other apart from bragging rights..P1 is probably the best of them but does that "change the game"? is the P1 so good the competition are scratching their heads and going back to the drawing board?...doubt it

They will be if the 6:33 ring time is indeed true (you know, the time shown at a meeting at McLaren with buyers)

Oh is this the same ring time that was irrelevant but now you have a decent source is a benchmark for the cars achievements? is that the same ring time?

Are you saying I said the ring time was irrelevant? If so, wrong person chap.

[Dagnut]

Peloton25 said:

The Ring itself is not irrelevant - it is one of the best places to test a car's performance anywhere in the world. That's why so many automotive manufacturers go there at some stage in the development of their 'sporty' and sometimes not-so-sporty cars.

What is irrelevant are the are all the attempts made for headline-grabbing lap times we see touted by the marketing departments of those same automakers. I say this because none of them are taking a standard production model off the assembly line and using that for their timed lap - every car gets tweaked - but moreso that conditions on the day of testing and also driver skill and familiarity with the track can sway the results. This makes the lap times incomparable, and therefore irrelevant.

>8^)
ER

No whats irrelevant is getting into willy waving contest in the first place, smugly declaring that your c0ck is bigger than everyone's but then at the last minute refusing to show it and taking some moralistic stance, through your cronies, that it would be unwise to show it as it might encourage other people to do the same...other people who aren't as sensible as you...

I don't care if it did a 5:33.... Mclaren have made themselves look like a bunch of t!ts with this ring time..

So defend it as the amazing technical achievement it is, don't bring some imaginary "performance lap ethos" into the debate......because we all know it doesn't exist...this is not a sport, it's marketing and if you think the White Knights of Woking are maintaining the fictitious standards you are as deluded as them.

[Dagnut]

E65Ross said:

Are you saying I said the ring time was irrelevant? If so, wrong person chap.

Apologies, I thought it was you from the original ring time mystery thread.

[Chris Harris]

Dagnut said:

If all 3 are showing casing the same technology at roughly the same time how can the P1 claim to be "changing the game" with it?

The P1 is heavily turbocharged. Its electric motor makes it feel normally aspirated. It's freakish. And think about the implications for lesser cars from this type of powertrain. How many lesser fast cars are now or soon will be turbocharged? Almost all of them. And the thing we don't tend to like is the lack of throttle response and immediacy. The P1 breaks entirely new, highly relevant ground in this respect.

I've driven the 918, it's fabulous, but the combination of electricity and forced induction in he P1 is, to me, game changing.

And that's before you consider how damn fast it is, or the way it can corner at high speed.

I'm certain LaF will be very close in terms of performance, but I haven't driven it yet, so can't comment.

[Dagnut]

GALLARDOGUY said:

Correct.

I would say some aspects are game changing though.

It's aero of instance.

The amount of down-force it produces for road car is incredible so maybe you have a point with that but it's not P1 showcased technology producing it.

[Peloton25]

Dagnut said:

No whats irrelevant is getting into willy waving contest in the first place, smugly declaring that your c0ck is bigger than everyone's but then at the last minute refusing to show it and taking some moralistic stance, through your cronies, that it would be unwise to show it as it might encourage other people to do the same...other people who aren't as sensible as you...

I don't care if it did a 5:33.... Mclaren have made themselves look like a bunch of t!ts with this ring time..

So defend it as the amazing technical achievement it is, don't bring some imaginary "performance lap ethos" into the debate......because we all know it doesn't exist...this is not a sport, it's marketing and if you think the White Knights of Woking are maintaining the fictitious standards you are as deluded as them.

So much bitterness. You must have wanted to see Ron's willy pretty badly.

I assume then, that you have never ever changed your mind about something, right?

>8^)
ER

[Dagnut]

Chris Harris said:

The P1 is heavily turbocharged. Its electric motor makes it feel normally aspirated. It's freakish. And think about the implications for lesser cars from this type of powertrain. How many lesser fast cars are now or soon will be turbocharged? Almost all of them. And the thing we don't tend to like is the lack of throttle response and immediacy. The P1 breaks entirely new, highly relevant ground in this respect.

I've driven the 918, it's fabulous, but the combination of electricity and forced induction in he P1 is, to me, game changing.

And that's before you consider how damn fast it is, or the way it can corner at high speed.

I'm certain LaF will be very close in terms of performance, but I haven't driven it yet, so can't comment.

That' is a good point but will Ferrari's application of the technology prove we don't need heavy turbo charging?
I'm not sure how far the Ferrari can travel on electric power alone.
Personally I think Porsche are the only ones that really delivered on the "hybrid" element..granted it's only 25 miles but does allow you to drive into the city on batteries alone, avoiding charges wearing your green trousers...how ever much of an illusion that is...then hit your favorite road and it's 9000rpm of race bred V8 to enjoy..it may not be a fast but I think it presents a better template for a sports car of the future for us average Joe's...commuter turned race car.
P1 is a mind blowing performance car benchmark, maybe I am judging it by the wrong criteria?

[007 VXR]

Dagnut said:

Chris Harris said:

The P1 is heavily turbocharged. Its electric motor makes it feel normally aspirated. It's freakish. And think about the implications for lesser cars from this type of powertrain. How many lesser fast cars are now or soon will be turbocharged? Almost all of them. And the thing we don't tend to like is the lack of throttle response and immediacy. The P1 breaks entirely new, highly relevant ground in this respect.

I've driven the 918, it's fabulous, but the combination of electricity and forced induction in he P1 is, to me, game changing.

And that's before you consider how damn fast it is, or the way it can corner at high speed.

I'm certain LaF will be very close in terms of performance, but I haven't driven it yet, so can't comment.

P1 is a mind blowing performance car benchmark, maybe I am judging it by the wrong criteria?

This ^^^^

[Dagnut]

Peloton25 said:

Dagnut said:

No whats irrelevant is getting into willy waving contest in the first place, smugly declaring that your c0ck is bigger than everyone's but then at the last minute refusing to show it and taking some moralistic stance, through your cronies, that it would be unwise to show it as it might encourage other people to do the same...other people who aren't as sensible as you...

I don't care if it did a 5:33.... Mclaren have made themselves look like a bunch of t!ts with this ring time..

So defend it as the amazing technical achievement it is, don't bring some imaginary "performance lap ethos" into the debate......because we all know it doesn't exist...this is not a sport, it's marketing and if you think the White Knights of Woking are maintaining the fictitious standards you are as deluded as them.

So much bitterness. You must have wanted to see Ron's willy pretty badly.

I assume then, that you have never ever changed your mind about something, right?

>8^)
ER

Why would I be bitter? I have no stake in this except some forum bullsh!t to wind you Mclaren fanboys up..my opinion carries as much weight as the Royal Families does on benefits.

And yes I would like to see "Ron's willy", I felt ripped off if you must know, the 6:57 spent watching Marc Lieb was entertaining I wanted to see the P1 smash it..didn't you?

[Peloton25]

No doubt, I'd love to see the footage of the full lap - the preview we got in the 'Yes, of course' video certainly wasn't enough.

Porsche is said to be headed back to the Ring when the weather gets better with yet another revision on the spec of their 918, hoping to improve on their time. Maybe after that happens McLaren will indulge us?

>8^)
ER

[Peloton25]

Dagnut said:

I'm not sure how far the Ferrari can travel on electric power alone.

LaFerrari is limited not by distance, but by speed, to 5 KPH in its electric mode. Basically enough to let you get quietly out of the garage and down the driveway in the morning.

Evidence of this happening can be seen in this video:

http://youtu.be/W4qpGgHIz64?t=2m23s

>8^)
ER

[GALLARDOGUY]

Dagnut said:

GALLARDOGUY said:

Correct.

I would say some aspects are game changing though.

It's aero of instance.

The amount of down-force it produces for road car is incredible so maybe you have a point with that but it's not P1 showcased technology producing it.

But the P1 is the only vehicle able to produce 600kgs of downforce, so it is P1 technology producing it.

[bubney72]

Chris Harris said:

Dagnut said:

If all 3 are showing casing the same technology at roughly the same time how can the P1 claim to be "changing the game" with it?

The P1 is heavily turbocharged. Its electric motor makes it feel normally aspirated. It's freakish. And think about the implications for lesser cars from this type of powertrain. How many lesser fast cars are now or soon will be turbocharged? Almost all of them. And the thing we don't tend to like is the lack of throttle response and immediacy. The P1 breaks entirely new, highly relevant ground in this respect.

I've driven the 918, it's fabulous, but the combination of electricity and forced induction in he P1 is, to me, game changing.

And that's before you consider how damn fast it is, or the way it can corner at high speed.

I'm certain LaF will be very close in terms of performance, but I haven't driven it yet, so can't comment.

The new Ferrari California T has zero turbo lag due to a very clever technological advancement.

[Dagnut]

Peloton25 said:

No doubt, I'd love to see the footage of the full lap - the preview we got in the 'Yes, of course' video certainly wasn't enough.

Porsche is said to be headed back to the Ring when the weather gets better with yet another revision on the spec of their 918, hoping to improve on their time. Maybe after that happens McLaren will indulge us?

>8^)
ER

..maybe Ron has it on his phone and watches it daily, then practices his best sh!t eating grin in the mirror...all the time readying himself to crush Porsche and Ferrari's fragile ego's with this devastating lap? ..you tell us I don't know what they are playing at?
It's seems very simple to me, we are Mclaren, you may remember us from 50 years of Grand Prix excellence we are some some of the best engineers on the planet...look at this amazing car we've made, look what it can do..

[GALLARDOGUY]

bubney72 said:

The new Ferrari California T has zero turbo lag due to a very clever technological advancement.

Driven it have you?

[Nikko 40691]

bubney72 said:

It's been really bugging me that the P1 reminds me of another car, definitely Japanese. Today I've figured it out. Behold the P1 predecessor

Japanese?

[Streetrod]

Tom73 said:

Dagnut said:

007 VXR said:

Dagnut said:

I think game changer is a bit over the top, it seems like a brilliant car, but it's not showcasing any exclusive technology, it's not shattering any performance records....what exactly has this changed?

It's a million pound short run supercar at the end of the day,this car has not moved the bar on enough to be called a game changer when there are 2 cars from competitors out there one of which hasn't even been tested.

Thats not what most are saying/thinking...

Journalists prone to patriotic hyperbole? what a surprise...this car may be brilliant in every way but there is nothing it does that moves bar so enough to be called a game changer...there are other road cars just as fast and comfortable and there are track cars just as fast...probably none that do both like this car but is that enough to be a game changer?
We are in a unique era where all these million pound cars are simply sold on spec..agera r, huayra, 918, La Ferrari, P1..they all sold so they don't really seem to be in competition with each other apart from bragging rights..P1 is probably the best of them but does that "change the game"? is the P1 so good the competition are scratching their heads and going back to the drawing board?...doubt it

It does tend to get a little silly, doesn't it? It's like the whole of England simultaneously restored the empire to it's former glory and is striking down on all those pesky foreigners. I literally couldn't stop cringing when I saw the thread "Ferrari: aspirational or cringeworthy?" because it's such a ridiculously contrarian stance to take, not to mention highly unfair, and I still struggle to wrap my head around the unintended irony. It's as if someone blew the horn and the fox hunt was ON.


Personally I'm looking forward to seeing what the competiton has to offer. LaFerrari looks a bit left behind in terms of cold specs but so did the 458 compared to the 12C but was simply the more fun car to drive. Snicker all you like but the TheFerrari has a V12 that runs at 9250 rpm and weighs 150 kg less than the P1.

Porsche's approach is interesting but could very well prove to be the better road car and how can it not be an absolute joy with 4wd and 9150 rpm?

The Huayra is still the most classical, camp, mad, wonderfully designed machine out there and it has a V12.

And then there's my own favored brand Koenigsegg which matches the P1's specs point for point and adds some with their "new thing", the One:1. 600 kg of downforce, active chassis and aero, 1340 hp and a 100 kgs lighter than the P1. And it's the brainchild of Lex Luthor. The fun factor is obvious.

And all of these cars bar the Hauyra have a F1 derived electrohydraulic diff and ABS, which no matter how you argue against it, inavriably will have more parameters to adjust than just a meager ABS will. Before ABS was banned in the 90's, back when McLaren could use their brake steer, the combination between diffs and ABS worked very similarly to how it does in these hypercars so if McLaren wanted to draw from past or present F1 experiences they'd gone with the electrohydraulic diff/ABS combination...

Comparisons are pointless but if you insist on painting a picture of the P1 being somehow superior there's plenty of things to nitpick at. It does not have LaFerrari's weight or deliciosly high revving V12. It does not have the 918's 4wd and 9150 rpm. It does not have the One:1's 1340 hp or weight. It does not have the glitter and glamour and the AMG V12 of the Huayra. It's simply a very, very good car that matches up nicely with the others in some areas and in other areas not so much, so the british press could do us all a favor and spare us the hyperbole and favoritism. It got old real fast with the 12C and it's not getting any fresher now.


But I digress. Where were we? Oh yes.

Engerland, Engerland, Engerland... Engerland, Engerland, Engerlaaa-and... A new thing, a new thing, a new thing... A new thing, A-NEW-THING!! Game changer, game changer, game changer...

The problem with the arguments being used here is that people keep picking on singular aspects of each car and claiming that because this car has that particular feature then it will be superior, and that’s your problem right there.

The success of any car or any machine for that matter is the harmony with which all the components work together. The diff question is a classic case in point, its just one aspect of a very complicated interaction of various systems; if its qualities do not match its partner systems then it’s a waste of time. The P1’s solution works for the P1. Chris Harris was one of the most vocal opponents to the system when he first heard about it, but he has had the decency to admit he was totally wrong in his first assesment.

What these cars prove is that there are that there is a lot more than one right answer to a particular question.

I do not think the Pagani should be classed along side the main three, the reason being this car is likely to have at least a ten year life span. Plus it has no hybrid capability. We can expect a roadster version, plus an F and an R version. The engine is also currently working at its lowest tune. Expect large hikes over the coming years

As for those saying that the recent rave reviews by British hacks have been tainted by patroisim then do a little research. Chris Harris is a serial Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini owner and has been often accused or Porsche bias during his time at EVO. Dickie Meaden is also a Porsche owner and currently consults for Singer. He has also been accused of having a Porsche bias

[Monty Python]

GALLARDOGUY said:

Driven it have you?

Ferrari's quote on the issue - "virtually zero turbo lag. The turbos are compact, the turbines have little inertia, and there's a variable boost management system."

[The Vambo]

bubney72 said:

The new Ferrari California T has zero turbo lag due to a very clever technological advancement.

Can someone remind me as to which cars we believe everything the manufacturers say and which ones we slaughter as lies and propaganda?

It changes so often.