Why is the Lotus Esprit not appreciating in value??
Discussion
Impasse said:
As I said earlier, they're no worse or better than other exotics of their era. However, some are attracted by the low advertised sale price but ignore the fact that they require attention which can sometimes involve a time consuming stay with an expert - the same as any other specialist car.
Ironically they will be the ones to complain when their bargain buy turns out to be unreliable because of scrimped maintenance. But looked after they are a tough old machine. I know it's just telly, but Top Gear's positive experience with an early V8 is typical of a car that has been serviced correctly.
well said sirIronically they will be the ones to complain when their bargain buy turns out to be unreliable because of scrimped maintenance. But looked after they are a tough old machine. I know it's just telly, but Top Gear's positive experience with an early V8 is typical of a car that has been serviced correctly.
blade7 said:
Who ?
The (fictional) Russians, of course - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH_(James_Bond)gregs656 said:
blade7 said:
Who ?
The (fictional) Russians, of course - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH_(James_Bond)
The Pits said:
Gary C said:
I find it's only really bumps that upset them. The lift off oversteer is not as savage as is often stated'
So, other than over bumps (quite a few of those about unfortunately) and the lift-off oversteer, 80's 911s aren't as treacherous as their reputation suggests?Strangely, I don't find that very reassuring.
Remarkably, the Esprit is astonishingly good over bumps and is beautifully balanced and forgiving to lifting mid-corner. Honestly, the stand-out attribute of the Esprit, thanks to the small, light, longitudinally mounted 4 cylinder engine and painstaking chassis, tyre and suspension development, is the way it handles compared to its much larger engined contemporaries. The ride is genuinely outstanding, even by modern standards, while body roll is uncannily contained. Roger Becker's uncontested genius is very evident from behind the wheel.
But of course 911s outsold the Esprit tenfold in 1980 and are worth embarassingly more now. Much like the 911 continues to humiliate the Cayman in terms of sales today. So where's the fun in chassis balance I guess?!
Bumps. I find I have to slow to no more than 80 on a section that my Evo could easily set 100, ( but it is on 26 year old dampers and that might not help) and I mean the 'reported' lift off oversteer does not happen to me, true you can provoke it but it's well planted and a great drive, more fun than my Evo (though not as fast) with very high grip levels and steering that shouts at you.
Don't get me wrong, the espirit is a great car and I want one, badly, but a 3.2 carrera is a great car too and the lies about it being a widow maker are overdone. It drives like nothing else !
Chassis balance is all about the driver, you need to work at it, it will understeer but if you know how to transfer the weight using throttle/brakes then the rewards are worth it.
Again, let's face it, the 911 layout compared to the espirit is just wrong and in a race with similar powered models, the espirit should win, but the driving and dare I say it 'practicality' of the carrera meant it sold well and remains a great drive to this day.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Gary C said:
Chassis balance is all about the driver....
Not sure about that, especially on public roads.There's something very special about a properly engineered and well-balanced chassis. Both Esprit and Boxster/Cayman share that very special talent.
Had and driven some nice cars and my old Carrera is one of the best.
I'm not putting down the espirit at all, love them, want one. Love the lightness ethic. Just don't put down an old carrera, they drive great. It's the car that has taken the longest to learn of any I have owned. I see that as a good thing. The values are reaching crazy levels and some of that is down to the experience, though some is down to the Porsche brand and the fact that even at almost thirty years old, it runs like new, goes like new and looks like new.
Less so now than in the late 80s. Back then the Excel was the 944 alternative and Espirit the 911 alternative. For the past 20 years however the companies have gone in different directions which now has got to the point that most of each's products have no comparable product in the other's stable.
Impasse said:
Yet here we are on the back end of an Esprit thread reading about 911s. Let's start an Evora thread and have a wager on how long before someone says Cayman.
Why is it that any thread about a British car on PH attracts people who feel the need to justify the purchase of a Porsche? What is it with the insecurity? Is it a fear that others only think they've bought one for the image rather than the driving dynamics so have to try and justify their purchase? It's a baffling phenomina that you can barely talk about any sporting car without Porsche owners jumping in to try and say their car is better. DonkeyApple said:
Impasse said:
Yet here we are on the back end of an Esprit thread reading about 911s. Let's start an Evora thread and have a wager on how long before someone says Cayman.
Why is it that any thread about a British car on PH attracts people who feel the need to justify the purchase of a Porsche? What is it with the insecurity? Is it a fear that others only think they've bought one for the image rather than the driving dynamics so have to try and justify their purchase? It's a baffling phenomina that you can barely talk about any sporting car without Porsche owners jumping in to try and say their car is better. Impasse said:
Yet here we are on the back end of an Esprit thread reading about 911s. Let's start an Evora thread and have a wager on how long before someone says Cayman.
Er this is a thread about why the Espirit is not appreciating in value like its peers from Ferrari and Porsche have. Would be a bit difficult to do that without comparing the companies, cars and the owners of them.NJH said:
Er this is a thread about why the Espirit is not appreciating in value like its peers from Ferrari and Porsche have. Would be a bit difficult to do that without comparing the companies, cars and the owners of them.
Indeed, if you're going to have a thread along the lines of "It's not fair, my car isn't worth as much as it should be",you should at least expect and be able to take a little criticism of the car in question.
Gary C said:
DonkeyApple said:
Impasse said:
Yet here we are on the back end of an Esprit thread reading about 911s. Let's start an Evora thread and have a wager on how long before someone says Cayman.
Why is it that any thread about a British car on PH attracts people who feel the need to justify the purchase of a Porsche? What is it with the insecurity? Is it a fear that others only think they've bought one for the image rather than the driving dynamics so have to try and justify their purchase? It's a baffling phenomina that you can barely talk about any sporting car without Porsche owners jumping in to try and say their car is better. Any?
Suppose the 911 comments come in cos they are tons of them and a viable pruchasing alternative to a buyer. But 911s werent particularly fast and dont have the 70s/80s vibe about them (more sixties) compared to the esprit yet are quite high in value. But yeah i get bored with the Porsche comments on lotus threads, remember that PH evora review on here where 50% of the article talked about the cayman, some great and justified wobblies were thrown in the comments. 
STFU about your heavy steel crap 
Anyway to add to my comments earlier about wanting one and but not wanting to own one, somehow the perfect esprit is externally a bronzey-gold s2.2 with a s4 turbo and and s3 glass roof and an s1 tartan interior with the galvanised chassis, modern trick dampers, updated headlamps etc etc. I would love to build that but unfortunately am not "independently" wealthy, i.e. have a job and it would take ages and plenty of skill/garage equipment. One thing that bugged me over the years is the wheels rarely sit in their arches nicely but im sure that could be sorted with rose joint adjustment and fancy dampers.
Anyhow, overall lovely iconic cars and if 308s are worth £80k* these must go up sooner or later as esprits are much nicer IMO.
I think essex variants are @50k now which is big money in my world.
Wonder how many were exported to greece?
drink it in
STFU about your heavy steel crap Anyway to add to my comments earlier about wanting one and but not wanting to own one, somehow the perfect esprit is externally a bronzey-gold s2.2 with a s4 turbo and and s3 glass roof and an s1 tartan interior with the galvanised chassis, modern trick dampers, updated headlamps etc etc. I would love to build that but unfortunately am not "independently" wealthy, i.e. have a job and it would take ages and plenty of skill/garage equipment. One thing that bugged me over the years is the wheels rarely sit in their arches nicely but im sure that could be sorted with rose joint adjustment and fancy dampers.
Anyhow, overall lovely iconic cars and if 308s are worth £80k* these must go up sooner or later as esprits are much nicer IMO.
I think essex variants are @50k now which is big money in my world.
- More like cartel trade buyers have consumed all available for sale and thrust up prices.
Wonder how many were exported to greece?
drink it in
blade7 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Why is it that any thread about a British car on PH attracts people who feel the need to justify the purchase of a Porsche?
This is General Gassing, if you want an unopposed Esprit appreciation thread you're in the wrong bit. Can I just make it clear. I love the espirit and would probably have one if my 911 had not landed in my lap.
Just responding to the negative view of it.
While it must seem as if rising values is a wonderful thing for a car owner, apart from a conversation piece it's a pain unless you happen to want to sell and hit the top of the curve.
It makes insurance more expensive, it makes you worry about actually using your car, makes you worried about theft.
But then you feel you can't sell as you will always regret it and never be able to get another one
Just responding to the negative view of it.
While it must seem as if rising values is a wonderful thing for a car owner, apart from a conversation piece it's a pain unless you happen to want to sell and hit the top of the curve.
It makes insurance more expensive, it makes you worry about actually using your car, makes you worried about theft.
But then you feel you can't sell as you will always regret it and never be able to get another one
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