UK Head of Tesla.... Impressive
Discussion
mybrainhurts said:
I'm guessing a Tesla electric motor will live quite a lot less than the 400,000 miles I am currently getting out of internal combustion engines.
Anyone able to answer my original question yet?
You do know that currently they are expected to only need servicing at 400k miles - the owner recently stated he is aiming to get the motors up to 1millon miles between servicing. Anyone able to answer my original question yet?
I think that's mighty impressive.
But as another has said its 8 years unlisted miles warranty - so let's say you do big miles 50k a year that's 400k miles a year free fuel cost. In a car with 700bhp 0-62mph 2.8 seconds. Destroys Enzos F1's Saleens literally a handful of the most exotic and most modern hyper cars are quicker (they cost an order of magnitude on purchase price).
Anyway best car in the world is the Ferrari 275 GTB4 cam looks noise handling pedigree longevity - only issue is I could buy more than 20x Tesla P90D's and an original Dino to boot hmm.
larrylamb11 said:
I think the primary point being missed here is that Tesla is primarily an ENERGY company that happen to make cars.... The focus is really on more efficient, more sustainable, more flexible energy delivery, storage and supply - they just happen to be applying that to the automotive industry primarily. Their network of FREE super chargers (that really do cost nothing to use) are fed by renewable energy, solar farms, wind farms and the like - there is a trick there as they are building infrastructure subsidised by govt. which I suspect is part of the wider plan to be a wholesale energy provider / supplier. They are already well down the road of developing domestic 'power packs', battery units to subsidise domestic energy use (and these will take the end-of-life batteries out of Tesla cars as they don't require the same level of battery performance) and will be diversifying into other areas.
I would not be quick to dismiss Tesla as a doomed business model making gimmick cars running at a loss.... in real terms its still very early in the development cycle of this technology and the potential is there to truly revolutionise energy use, production and efficiency with a true quantum leap forward - think development of the ICE over the steam age, we could very easily be witnessing the beginning of a new era and Tesla are fundamental in driving that. They have the first-mover advantage and will dominate the sector as a result. They can afford to run at a loss in the early years IF we are looking at a new industrial revolution as they will become a mega-corp. further down the line.... their business model looks like it is being positioned for that.
This makes the most sense to me.I would not be quick to dismiss Tesla as a doomed business model making gimmick cars running at a loss.... in real terms its still very early in the development cycle of this technology and the potential is there to truly revolutionise energy use, production and efficiency with a true quantum leap forward - think development of the ICE over the steam age, we could very easily be witnessing the beginning of a new era and Tesla are fundamental in driving that. They have the first-mover advantage and will dominate the sector as a result. They can afford to run at a loss in the early years IF we are looking at a new industrial revolution as they will become a mega-corp. further down the line.... their business model looks like it is being positioned for that.
kambites said:
yonex said:
How can you talk about EV costs with no experience of ownership?
Is this actually a real question or am I missing a woosh parrot? Ares said:
Heard the UK Head of Tesla speak last night (having driven 250miles up from London in an 85D, totally free of cost and not set off fully charged).
Impressive guy and an impressive car as well as business model.
His middle of the range Model S hits 60 in 4 secs, the slightly hotter version does it in 2.8 secs.
But the free to use, supercharging network was something I didn't realise existed. Full charge in 20 mins and totally free to use/charge. True zero-cost motoring. The case for EVs gets stronger.
Think I was at the same thing. The 42 do? A really nice guy. Might pop to Knutsford to try one!Impressive guy and an impressive car as well as business model.
His middle of the range Model S hits 60 in 4 secs, the slightly hotter version does it in 2.8 secs.
But the free to use, supercharging network was something I didn't realise existed. Full charge in 20 mins and totally free to use/charge. True zero-cost motoring. The case for EVs gets stronger.
lostkiwi said:
kambites said:
yonex said:
How can you talk about EV costs with no experience of ownership?
Is this actually a real question or am I missing a woosh parrot? bodhi said:
And for those of you struggling with the concept - HOW CAN IT BE THE FUTURE IF IT DOESN'T SUIT EVERYONE?
Seriously, if it's that easy to find genuine reasons why they won't work for everyone, how in any way, are they a replacement for a technology that does work for everyone, and works pretty damned well?
And I haven't even gone there with the unbearable misplaced smugness of your average EV driver.
Smart phones are not suitable for older people used to traditional phones. Seriously, if it's that easy to find genuine reasons why they won't work for everyone, how in any way, are they a replacement for a technology that does work for everyone, and works pretty damned well?
And I haven't even gone there with the unbearable misplaced smugness of your average EV driver.
Computers require use to become familiar with.
Planes originally only had a limited range and were hugely expensive to fly on.
On and on and on.
What is one piece of technology THAT DOES ACTUALLY SUIT EVERYONE?
kambites said:
ETA: In fact thinking about it, I've never personally had an electric motor fail in anything I've ever owned and I must have owned thousands of the thing; which is definitely more than I can say about internal combustion engines and I've only owned a few tens of them. 
In fact except for bearing failure, what can actually go wrong with an AC induction motor? There's only one moving part.
Famous last words but me neither. My washing machine was inherited from my mother and has been through about 5000 cycles and the motor still works fine. I guess the brushes or coils can go, but I don't think that their motors use brushes. I have had an alternator go but I am pretty sure that was because I spilt some oil all over it. In fact except for bearing failure, what can actually go wrong with an AC induction motor? There's only one moving part. Edited by kambites on Wednesday 14th October 22:20
yonex said:
lostkiwi said:
kambites said:
yonex said:
How can you talk about EV costs with no experience of ownership?
Is this actually a real question or am I missing a woosh parrot? In some ways, this has some analogies to the debate around cigarettes vs e-cigarettes, IMO.
bodhi said:
Strange, I've spent a bit of time driving and passengering in my sister's Leaf, and my main conclusion has been - if that's the future of motoring I'd rather walk. I have never driven such a tedious, ugly, slow and stodgy pile of crap in my life. I'm trying to think of something about it which sticks in my mind after a quick spin in it, and all I've come up with is the joy of starting up the straight 6 straight after a go in the Leaf.
Which is my biggest problem with EV's - even ignoring the dubious range, potential grid issues, relying on limited resources for the batteries and motors and weight of the things - to me, they are just so utterly dull. Mash pedal, whirr, steer a bit (until Tesla take that off you as well), stop. About as satisfying to drive as a golf buggy imo.
However, I guess a decent amount of the point is, how many people need anything different to a comfy golf buggy on a daily basis?Which is my biggest problem with EV's - even ignoring the dubious range, potential grid issues, relying on limited resources for the batteries and motors and weight of the things - to me, they are just so utterly dull. Mash pedal, whirr, steer a bit (until Tesla take that off you as well), stop. About as satisfying to drive as a golf buggy imo.
99% of the people something like 99% of the time just want something that's cheap, reliable, comfy and so on as they crawl to work and back at cycling pace.
I might be prepared and willing to run something else, as are you and others here, but the majority just don't care. There are obviously various other issues, but suspect that a fair few of those could be solved, if the will & so was really there, by diverting even some of the money, effort, will and similar from oil to the alternative.
yonex said:
lostkiwi said:
kambites said:
yonex said:
How can you talk about EV costs with no experience of ownership?
Is this actually a real question or am I missing a woosh parrot? Or a £50k investment in a car that's comparable to any other £50k luxury car (but with more performance than most).
Still can't see your point.
lostkiwi said:
Yep thats an £80k investment for a luxury car with comparable performance to an M5 that costs er.... £80k.
Or a £50k investment in a car that's comparable to any other £50k luxury car (but with more performance than most).
Still can't see your point.
I must admit, I don't understand the fixation on price. Why is it acceptable for comparable sized premium saloons to be this price but this car not?Or a £50k investment in a car that's comparable to any other £50k luxury car (but with more performance than most).
Still can't see your point.
Who cares if it is £80k. Just like the Audi or Jag that is £80k you either have the money or not.
There is some very twisted logic around EVs as if people think they should be being given them for free. I really do think that normal people's perception of this market has been massively skewed by the rankings of the enviro-fanatics and cheap politicking.
It's just a car at a price like every other car. It either suits your requirements or it doesn't.
What it also is is an all new type of driving experience. The fact that so many PHers today are actually anti new driving experiences is just baffling. This is a new type of car that has near hypercar performance for £80k!!!!!! It's a large saloon without any s
tty diesel rattle, you can fill it up at home while asleep so no more having to use petrol stations. It is a genuinely interesting new type of motoring. lostkiwi said:
I was wondering that too. We already know superchargers are free to Tesla owners. Ergo fuel costs being near zero as stated is a fact. If I had near zero fuel costs it would definitely be [smug mode=on]
Access to the supercharger network is not free. Tesla have rolled the costs into the purchase price. Until recently supercharger access was listed as an optional extra on the 70d and 85d a few months ago. It was about £2,200 from memory. Unless you happen to live next door to one of these sites there is no possibility that fuel costs will be anywhere near zero. The network is still very sparsely populated:
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/65...
Total number of superchargers serving the East Midlands = 2
mybrainhurts said:
My ICEs have frequently outlasted their alternators, starter motors and heater blowers.
My washing machines have frequently blown their electric motors.
Someone just suggested Tesla motors will be cheap. If so, where does the huge price tag for their cars come from?
Huge price tag? What car offer as much for less?My washing machines have frequently blown their electric motors.
Someone just suggested Tesla motors will be cheap. If so, where does the huge price tag for their cars come from?
Small Car said:
Ares said:
Heard the UK Head of Tesla speak last night (having driven 250miles up from London in an 85D, totally free of cost and not set off fully charged).
Impressive guy and an impressive car as well as business model.
His middle of the range Model S hits 60 in 4 secs, the slightly hotter version does it in 2.8 secs.
But the free to use, supercharging network was something I didn't realise existed. Full charge in 20 mins and totally free to use/charge. True zero-cost motoring. The case for EVs gets stronger.
Think I was at the same thing. The 42 do? A really nice guy. Might pop to Knutsford to try one!Impressive guy and an impressive car as well as business model.
His middle of the range Model S hits 60 in 4 secs, the slightly hotter version does it in 2.8 secs.
But the free to use, supercharging network was something I didn't realise existed. Full charge in 20 mins and totally free to use/charge. True zero-cost motoring. The case for EVs gets stronger.
I've driven one, but dying to try the P85D Insanity. Knutsford have one.....
yonex said:
lostkiwi said:
kambites said:
yonex said:
How can you talk about EV costs with no experience of ownership?
Is this actually a real question or am I missing a woosh parrot? For those moaning about charging times, Musk has said Superchargers will also be able to autonomously change battery packs in 180 seconds, less time than filling a tank.
He calls it the "fast or free option", also the superchargers collect their own electricity.
He calls it the "fast or free option", also the superchargers collect their own electricity.
Edited by JB! on Thursday 15th October 09:10
Elysium said:
lostkiwi said:
I was wondering that too. We already know superchargers are free to Tesla owners. Ergo fuel costs being near zero as stated is a fact. If I had near zero fuel costs it would definitely be [smug mode=on]
Access to the supercharger network is not free. Tesla have rolled the costs into the purchase price. Until recently supercharger access was listed as an optional extra on the 70d and 85d a few months ago. It was about £2,200 from memory. Unless you happen to live next door to one of these sites there is no possibility that fuel costs will be anywhere near zero. The network is still very sparsely populated:
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/65...
Total number of superchargers serving the East Midlands = 2
Cost *may* be rolled into purchase price, although the commercial benefits of host sites suggests that they will be footing at least part of the cost. Regardless, the purchase price of these things is no higher than comparable cars, which makes them even greater economic sense.
I think the EV's are probably where mobile phones were in 1990, a thing of wonder, very expensive and not for the average punter by and large.
25 years later, we can spend £800 on a phone, or like the one I bought the other day, £17, a perfectly functional Nokia with a battery life of weeks.
remember when a new phone battery was £100, a desk charger £100 and the phone was over a grand ?
I think we will see other manufacturers get in on the act, production costs will come down, battery tech will improve and the Tesla may well look like the equivalent of the phone Bruce Willis would have been using in Die Hard.
Tesla are too big to ignore, too much buzz, I suspect that there will be a factory in China already working on a knock off, the mainstream manufacturers are getting a taste of what Nokia etc got from Apple when the first Iphone arrived.
25 years later, we can spend £800 on a phone, or like the one I bought the other day, £17, a perfectly functional Nokia with a battery life of weeks.
remember when a new phone battery was £100, a desk charger £100 and the phone was over a grand ?
I think we will see other manufacturers get in on the act, production costs will come down, battery tech will improve and the Tesla may well look like the equivalent of the phone Bruce Willis would have been using in Die Hard.
Tesla are too big to ignore, too much buzz, I suspect that there will be a factory in China already working on a knock off, the mainstream manufacturers are getting a taste of what Nokia etc got from Apple when the first Iphone arrived.
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