RE: SOTW: Renault Clio Renaultsport 172
Discussion
RickyJ said:
This was SOTW back in (I think) February 2011, it's appearance then was what got me thinking about, and then buying a 172, 3 months later. Absolutely cracking for the money, although mine was a little more than this one. The sort of car that makes you want to get in and go for a drive just for the sake of it.
Top lurking Ricky! Nice way to break cover but only1ian stole your thunder by one post!As usual with internet forums people tend to just write what they've read elsewhere.
I'd say the majority that come out with the "french reliability" have never even owned one, they've just read about issues, or their mates mums cousins babysitter had issues.
It's the same thing with tvrs where people think they are hilarious spouting how they break down every journey when most people who comment have never even seen a tvr in the flesh let alone owned one.
Yes cars go wrong but the way some of you go on it's as if all every single renault car out there has problems.
Even now people still talk the same way about anything french when the reality is most modern cars are equally as reliable as each other generally.
The vag group for example aren't as great as some people think...
I'd say the majority that come out with the "french reliability" have never even owned one, they've just read about issues, or their mates mums cousins babysitter had issues.
It's the same thing with tvrs where people think they are hilarious spouting how they break down every journey when most people who comment have never even seen a tvr in the flesh let alone owned one.
Yes cars go wrong but the way some of you go on it's as if all every single renault car out there has problems.
Even now people still talk the same way about anything french when the reality is most modern cars are equally as reliable as each other generally.
The vag group for example aren't as great as some people think...
TameRacingDriver said:
I bought one for £1400, and it needed the following in just 3 months.
This was on a car with full service history. This was a car, that despite PH experts telling me it was a banger, that was commented on by 2 different garages to be a "cracking little car in great condition".
I will say that when it worked, it was fast and fun to drive.
My advice to anyone who wants one of these - spend a bit more. In fact, get a Cup model instead. There's less to go wrong and the cambelt swap is so much easier (and therefore, cheaper).
I'd run an absolute mile from this one.
I think you were unfortunate, but you did buy a car with quite a few 'amateur' mods if I recall. Not having a go but, personally, if I see odd mods like 17" wheels (for example) and the like on a car like this then I'd suspect that it's not been correctly looked after.- Cambelt, dephaser, aux belt, water pump - £700
- Rear shock absorbers - leaking
- New exhaust (not the cars fault)
- New brake pipes
- New brake pads
- New steering wheel (again undoing someones rubbish mod)
- New windscreen wiper motor
- New radiator
- New throttle body
This was on a car with full service history. This was a car, that despite PH experts telling me it was a banger, that was commented on by 2 different garages to be a "cracking little car in great condition".
I will say that when it worked, it was fast and fun to drive.
My advice to anyone who wants one of these - spend a bit more. In fact, get a Cup model instead. There's less to go wrong and the cambelt swap is so much easier (and therefore, cheaper).
I'd run an absolute mile from this one.
Not saying that was exactly the case with your car but I personally wouldn't have bought that car. Sorry chap
MagicalTrevor said:
I think you were unfortunate, but you did buy a car with quite a few 'amateur' mods if I recall. Not having a go but, personally, if I see odd mods like 17" wheels (for example) and the like on a car like this then I'd suspect that it's not been correctly looked after.
Not saying that was exactly the case with your car but I personally wouldn't have bought that car. Sorry chap
Agreed. In hindsight, I should of. I won't make the same mistake again though.Not saying that was exactly the case with your car but I personally wouldn't have bought that car. Sorry chap
I just thought - replace the exhaust, wheels and springs, and it'll all be OK again.
However, they are fragile, and they feel it. Even my brand new 182 felt "baggy".
Mine has been surprisingly strong (kept a track in my blog on here in case anybody wants to know what they REALLY cost to run) over the past 18 months or so I have had it and was beginning to shed its "merde" build quality issues.
Until this morning.
Washer motor has broken and it's going to cost me a whole £8 and about half an hour to fix! Bloody unreliable garlic munching pile o' s
te with its stupid plastic face!
Until this morning.
Washer motor has broken and it's going to cost me a whole £8 and about half an hour to fix! Bloody unreliable garlic munching pile o' s
te with its stupid plastic face!I looked at a few of these at the bottom end of the market for a track car a year or so ago. Good fun to drive but the number with dying gearboxes was surprising. (I thought manual gearbox failures were things of the past).
Gearbox issues combined with cambelt costs mean that cheap ones are false economies. Reading buying guides it also seemed consumables appeared to have a very short life.
Gearbox issues combined with cambelt costs mean that cheap ones are false economies. Reading buying guides it also seemed consumables appeared to have a very short life.
TBH if I was going to get a hot hatch at this end of the price scale, I'd go for a Saxo VTS. Having driven both, I do find the VTS is a more fun, better handling car and feels every bit as quick. Less to go wrong. Wish I'd gone for one of those instead of the 172 now, but I was seduced by the fact the 172 made for a better daily driver.
I bought a phase 2, 172 Cup for £1600 this summer. When I got it, it had a god awful exhaust, super low/rubbish suspension and it needed a clean. It's since had a £40 back box from ebay and new Renault shocks/springs all round for £200 and a clean.
Goes well now, handles the way it should but it rattles. MY GOD HOW IT RATTLES. Most days I expect something to break but nothing has so far!
(After giving it this vote of confidence, I now fully expect my dephaser to go on the way home from work and mince the engine.)
I even managed 52mpg on a 25 mile run from my parents house to my own, not bad at all!
Goes well now, handles the way it should but it rattles. MY GOD HOW IT RATTLES. Most days I expect something to break but nothing has so far!
(After giving it this vote of confidence, I now fully expect my dephaser to go on the way home from work and mince the engine.)
I even managed 52mpg on a 25 mile run from my parents house to my own, not bad at all!
This is the model that got me into Renaultsports a decade ago. My friend bought one second hand and we did a trackday in it (my first of now many!) which was great fun. About 6 months later I was passing a Renault dealer and being a car geek, popped in, as you do. Tucked around the back they had a delivery mileage 172. Needless to say a few days later it was bought. It was my first performance car and it was fantastic. I still hold it in high regard even compared to some of the more illustrous RSs that I have owned/driven since. For me it was the right balance of rawness, spec level, looks and performance that I think later Clios struggled to match (IMO). Sure, the 182s and 197/200 are objectively better cars to drive, but the first 172 just had something about it that I think was lost as the model progressed (partly due to the fact it was so light compared to later models (1,035kg). The 172 Cup probably came closest to capturing it.
I kept the car for about 2.5 years and the only issues during that time were a very minor oil leak (which was fixed under warranty and was fine afterwards), tracking that was easily knocked out and the front bumper seemed to be a magnet for stones (but thats not really a "problem"). Other than the tracking, it was cheap to run (in the good old days when petrol was "cheap"!). High 30s, possibly 40 on a motorway run, yes. Mid 40s - I don't ever recall getting near this!
As has been mentioned, the steering wheel is mostly alcantara, so won't melt. It will get marked and tatty very easily if you are not careful with it. One option is to wear driving gloves, but you might (or might not) feel a bit of a plonker.
For other geeks out there, the 172 originally came in Titanium silver, but this was replaced by Iceberg silver half way through production. This may account for why some Mk 1s look a slightly different shade of silver. There wasn't a huge difference, but if you look closely enough, you might see this. However, as these cars are a deacde old, lack of cleaning and polishing, fading etc will probably mean it is impossible to tell now just by looking. I think Titanium was a slightly brighter shade of silver, IIRC. Very early cars (press cars only maybe) had a bonnet made from lighter weight metal. However, it was soon replaced by a heavier weight metal for the rest of the production run. Not sure how much kgs lighter, but probably not much.
The Exclusive came in dark Scarab Green. Very stealthy.
BTW I still have a few OEM alloys for the car in my attic if anyone is interested. They are all in good knick. Only have 3 though - its because the car came with a full size spare, so only needed 3 more for a second set of wheels. I think I also have a spare OEM unused water pump somewhere.
I kept the car for about 2.5 years and the only issues during that time were a very minor oil leak (which was fixed under warranty and was fine afterwards), tracking that was easily knocked out and the front bumper seemed to be a magnet for stones (but thats not really a "problem"). Other than the tracking, it was cheap to run (in the good old days when petrol was "cheap"!). High 30s, possibly 40 on a motorway run, yes. Mid 40s - I don't ever recall getting near this!
As has been mentioned, the steering wheel is mostly alcantara, so won't melt. It will get marked and tatty very easily if you are not careful with it. One option is to wear driving gloves, but you might (or might not) feel a bit of a plonker.
For other geeks out there, the 172 originally came in Titanium silver, but this was replaced by Iceberg silver half way through production. This may account for why some Mk 1s look a slightly different shade of silver. There wasn't a huge difference, but if you look closely enough, you might see this. However, as these cars are a deacde old, lack of cleaning and polishing, fading etc will probably mean it is impossible to tell now just by looking. I think Titanium was a slightly brighter shade of silver, IIRC. Very early cars (press cars only maybe) had a bonnet made from lighter weight metal. However, it was soon replaced by a heavier weight metal for the rest of the production run. Not sure how much kgs lighter, but probably not much.
The Exclusive came in dark Scarab Green. Very stealthy.
BTW I still have a few OEM alloys for the car in my attic if anyone is interested. They are all in good knick. Only have 3 though - its because the car came with a full size spare, so only needed 3 more for a second set of wheels. I think I also have a spare OEM unused water pump somewhere.
only1ian said:
Now i know SOTW has run out of ideas! They are featuring EXACTLY the same car as the last time it made SOTW back in January 2011:
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=162&i=229...
Not just the same model but quite possibly the ACTUAL car itself that or clio cups all come with the same after market steering wheel cover! Check that mileage matches some receipts and MOTs...
Also nice to know deprecation has stopped!
Hmmm, I too am a bit suspicious.http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=162&i=229...
Not just the same model but quite possibly the ACTUAL car itself that or clio cups all come with the same after market steering wheel cover! Check that mileage matches some receipts and MOTs...
Also nice to know deprecation has stopped!
pops and bangs said:
As usual with internet forums people tend to just write what they've read elsewhere.
I'd say the majority that come out with the "french reliability" have never even owned one, they've just read about issues, or their mates mums cousins babysitter had issues.
It's the same thing with tvrs where people think they are hilarious spouting how they break down every journey when most people who comment have never even seen a tvr in the flesh let alone owned one.
Yes cars go wrong but the way some of you go on it's as if all every single renault car out there has problems.
Even now people still talk the same way about anything french when the reality is most modern cars are equally as reliable as each other generally.
The vag group for example aren't as great as some people think...
Rubbish. Rubbish. Rubbish. Most people who slag off French cars as being unreliable junk ARE speaking from experience. Most people have owned at least one French car; the fact there are [u]so many[/u] stories of issues, and they have a poor reputation must come from somewhere? It's not like someone got up one day and said "I'm going to start a smear campaign against French cars for a laugh" and that it spiralled out of control from there?I'd say the majority that come out with the "french reliability" have never even owned one, they've just read about issues, or their mates mums cousins babysitter had issues.
It's the same thing with tvrs where people think they are hilarious spouting how they break down every journey when most people who comment have never even seen a tvr in the flesh let alone owned one.
Yes cars go wrong but the way some of you go on it's as if all every single renault car out there has problems.
Even now people still talk the same way about anything french when the reality is most modern cars are equally as reliable as each other generally.
The vag group for example aren't as great as some people think...
Yes, I agree a lot of people repeat hearsay, but seriously, anyone who doesn't KNOW that French cars are built on a budget is an idiot. This is the reason why they sell for cheap, and why they have so many issues. Facts.
German cars - I agree they don't make them like they used to and are poor quality these days.
I'm still waving the Japanese flag for reliability and quality.
Just another point to make - have you EVER read a SOTW before where the original ad lists soooooo many things that can go wrong with the car?
I know I haven't.As someone stated on another thread - French cars, buy them brand new then flog them when out of warranty. More proof that they are unreliable - depreciation on them is worse than other marques. Why? Because buyers KNOW they will not be as good quality as cars from other marques so they wont pay comparable prices. It's all facts, not hearsay...
Is that a big blob of rust half way along the drivers' side sill, just above the plastic skirt / below the door? What lies beneath?
I can safely say the 172 was the first Renault I wanted - but I've never plucked up the courage to buy any Renault to date. Cheap at this price though!
LOL. As we know, only Toyota's accelerate when they shouldn't. Nothing brakes when it shouldn't, except me when I accidentally dip the clutch on an automatic car ;-)
I can safely say the 172 was the first Renault I wanted - but I've never plucked up the courage to buy any Renault to date. Cheap at this price though!
Mr2Mike said:
vwsurfbum said:
If it was made by someone who was more reliable it could be tempting but renaults i'm afraid scare me into thinking its going to brake at any moment.
I've not heard of one braking unless the middle pedal was being pushed.Edited by P2BS on Friday 14th December 11:11
Riknos said:
Rubbish. Rubbish. Rubbish. Most people who slag off French cars as being unreliable junk ARE speaking from experience. Most people have owned at least one French car; the fact there are [u]so many[/u] stories of issues, and they have a poor reputation must come from somewhere? It's not like someone got up one day and said "I'm going to start a smear campaign against French cars for a laugh" and that it spiralled out of control from there?
Yes, I agree a lot of people repeat hearsay, but seriously, anyone who doesn't KNOW that French cars are built on a budget is an idiot. This is the reason why they sell for cheap, and why they have so many issues. Facts.
German cars - I agree they don't make them like they used to and are poor quality these days.
I'm still waving the Japanese flag for reliability and quality.
Just another point to make - have you EVER read a SOTW before where the original ad lists soooooo many things that can go wrong with the car? I know I haven't.
As someone stated on another thread - French cars, buy them brand new then flog them when out of warranty. More proof that they are unreliable - depreciation on them is worse than other marques. Why? Because buyers KNOW they will not be as good quality as cars from other marques so they wont pay comparable prices. It's all facts, not hearsay...
People seem blind to their faults on Pistonheads TBH.Yes, I agree a lot of people repeat hearsay, but seriously, anyone who doesn't KNOW that French cars are built on a budget is an idiot. This is the reason why they sell for cheap, and why they have so many issues. Facts.
German cars - I agree they don't make them like they used to and are poor quality these days.
I'm still waving the Japanese flag for reliability and quality.
Just another point to make - have you EVER read a SOTW before where the original ad lists soooooo many things that can go wrong with the car?
I know I haven't.As someone stated on another thread - French cars, buy them brand new then flog them when out of warranty. More proof that they are unreliable - depreciation on them is worse than other marques. Why? Because buyers KNOW they will not be as good quality as cars from other marques so they wont pay comparable prices. It's all facts, not hearsay...
As for no experience, well I've had 2 and had bad experiences with both. I also know someone who had a Megane R26 that raped his wallet.
But it seems you aren't allowed NOT to like Renault Sports on here. Apparently they are made somewhere else, so have Japanese reliability
And to be honest, even not withstanding the build quality issue, they are a bit overhyped as well. Claims of 50 MPG are widespread, but not really achievable in normal use in my experience, and if you go to the Cliosport forum they are often said to be better than ANYTHING in the "twisties". Despite that the 106 GTI / Saxo VTS and the 306 all handle better and are more reliable.
To be honest, Integra Type-Rs, although they aren't shed money, aren't a huge amount more than a decent example of one of these, and they are so much better in every single way.
And as for this example, the only thing I'd do if I bought that would be break it for parts. It LOOKS a shed. It will only end in tears.
Mine did 232'000 km (that is 145'000 miles) in the last 12 years. And she is alive an well! What was that thing about french reliability?
Small, funny, lovely, powerful, amusing tin (ok, aluminium and plastic, partly) box, who puts a smile on my face everytime I drive her!
Indeed: I am in love! :-)
Small, funny, lovely, powerful, amusing tin (ok, aluminium and plastic, partly) box, who puts a smile on my face everytime I drive her!
Indeed: I am in love! :-)
Brilliant cars.
I feel I have good experience as I have owned 14 172/182's over the past 10 years, and still have an Exclusive it bits hiding at the back of my lock up.
As said, if looked after they are reliable - I did 60,000 miles in my first one, and it ended up on 144,000 miles, on Jenvey throttle bodies (202 bhp) with a set rev limit of 7800 rpm.
Over that total mileage I had to replace one set of discs and pads all round, 1 driveshaft (Due to me not noticing a split CV gaitor and wrecking a CV joint), the n/s window regulator, and 2 idle control valves.
I will state that if abused they can fall to bits, so it is important to make sure you are buying one that has been looked after.
I won't bother stating all the bits that you need to look at, as most have been covered in this thread, but it is very important to make sure the cambelt is changed using the genuine Renault locking tools - F4R engines need exact timing, and if it is not done using the correct tools and by someone who knows what they are doing then the timing WILL be out - half of my Clio's I have bought have had the timing out.
I bet half of the 172/182's out there are running with timing out - it generally makes the car a bit more lumpy. and moves all power above 5000 rpm, and leaves no power under that - it also looses about 25bhp with incorrect timing.
On that subject, if I here one more person tell me that the VVT comes in at 5000 rpm I will scream - the F4R engine does have VVT, but it cuts in at circa 1650rpm and cuts out at 6500rpm - the 'kick' at 5000rpm is simply the engine reaching 'VE', or 'coming on cam' in old talk.
So overall, great cars, and will last if looked after, if abused then they will fall apart like anything else
I feel I have good experience as I have owned 14 172/182's over the past 10 years, and still have an Exclusive it bits hiding at the back of my lock up.
As said, if looked after they are reliable - I did 60,000 miles in my first one, and it ended up on 144,000 miles, on Jenvey throttle bodies (202 bhp) with a set rev limit of 7800 rpm.
Over that total mileage I had to replace one set of discs and pads all round, 1 driveshaft (Due to me not noticing a split CV gaitor and wrecking a CV joint), the n/s window regulator, and 2 idle control valves.
I will state that if abused they can fall to bits, so it is important to make sure you are buying one that has been looked after.
I won't bother stating all the bits that you need to look at, as most have been covered in this thread, but it is very important to make sure the cambelt is changed using the genuine Renault locking tools - F4R engines need exact timing, and if it is not done using the correct tools and by someone who knows what they are doing then the timing WILL be out - half of my Clio's I have bought have had the timing out.
I bet half of the 172/182's out there are running with timing out - it generally makes the car a bit more lumpy. and moves all power above 5000 rpm, and leaves no power under that - it also looses about 25bhp with incorrect timing.
On that subject, if I here one more person tell me that the VVT comes in at 5000 rpm I will scream - the F4R engine does have VVT, but it cuts in at circa 1650rpm and cuts out at 6500rpm - the 'kick' at 5000rpm is simply the engine reaching 'VE', or 'coming on cam' in old talk.
So overall, great cars, and will last if looked after, if abused then they will fall apart like anything else
Funnily enough, my old 182 had a 'kick' at 5,000 RPM where the power was noticeably more, a bit like a VTEC. However, it was also a bit wheezy at very high revs >6500.
My Phase 1 on the other hand had no real kick, it just had a constant, gradual build up of power, and the power didn't let up until the limiter at 7000.
When I had the cambelt done, it was noticeably more pokey, I got it done at a place recommended by cliosport for the reason that I didn't want the timing to be out. Obviously it was out before.
My Phase 1 on the other hand had no real kick, it just had a constant, gradual build up of power, and the power didn't let up until the limiter at 7000.
When I had the cambelt done, it was noticeably more pokey, I got it done at a place recommended by cliosport for the reason that I didn't want the timing to be out. Obviously it was out before.
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