Why are American cars built so badly?
Discussion
Output Flange said:
Doesn't one of the Renault Clio generations come with plastic front wings?
And although I've not tried it, does an Elise clamshell not flex in places if you poke it?
When I was having my car wrapped there was a Lambo Aventador with the bare carbon roof option being detailed. You should see the flex on that. And although I've not tried it, does an Elise clamshell not flex in places if you poke it?
Output Flange said:
Doesn't one of the Renault Clio generations come with plastic front wings?
And although I've not tried it, does an Elise clamshell not flex in places if you poke it?
An Elise clamshell flexes under the weight of bird droppings! It's still a very well engineered car. And although I've not tried it, does an Elise clamshell not flex in places if you poke it?
The Mk2 Clio had plastic front wings. As does the Volkswagen Touareg. The Volvo S80 has a plastic bootlid. Nothing wrong with plastic panels as long as you can get a decent colour match.
GolfSupplierAU said:
I have always wondered how a nation which can engineer themselves out of our atmosphere, to the moon and beyond struggle to build cars well. Anyone got any ideas/opinions?
US car bumper systems have to be capable of accepting an impact of something like 15mph without permanent damage (or something like that) which is not so easy.A couple of years ago, while driving a Pontiac Grand Prix, I got tail ended on a Freeway by a Mustang.
We pulled off the Freeway and got out to look at the damage and found that neither the Mustand or my Pontiac rental showed any more damage that a few small paint chips.
I now have the phone number of a very atractive young woman in Burkley CA if I every fancy a free coffee.
Not sure the same outcome would have been achieved in one or two of mine or my Wifes European / Japanese cars in recent years.
irocfan said:
oh dear Lord this s
t again... yes the plastics used in Yank cars isn't the latest soft touch stuff made from chinchilla gonads, yes they *appear* to use low tech materials and... actually you know what? fk it you buy your overpriced soul-less German luxo barge and I'll enjoy my 'cheaply made hunk of yank tank crap' with not many (if any) assorted squeaks and rattles safe in the knowledge that when they do occur I'll be a lot less pissed of than you having paid a huge amount less for something that looks better, sounds waaaay better (in most cases) and for the performance returns very acceptable economy
100% This. t again... yes the plastics used in Yank cars isn't the latest soft touch stuff made from chinchilla gonads, yes they *appear* to use low tech materials and... actually you know what? fk it you buy your overpriced soul-less German luxo barge and I'll enjoy my 'cheaply made hunk of yank tank crap' with not many (if any) assorted squeaks and rattles safe in the knowledge that when they do occur I'll be a lot less pissed of than you having paid a huge amount less for something that looks better, sounds waaaay better (in most cases) and for the performance returns very acceptable economy V88Dicky said:
Dunno about anyone else, but everytime I've been to North America I'm amazed how many older cars are still in daily use. Cars and trucks from the 60s/70s/80s or older seem to be everywhere and generally in decent nick.
When was the last time you saw a 1970 Vauxhall Ventora, a 1980 Audi 100, or even a 1990 Ford Escort?
Me neither.
Probably helps as most states dont have an MOT equivalent so you can run pretty knackered old heaps into the ground. Given that the average V6/V8 puts out 150HP and is often over 3.5L the engines shouldn't have much of a hard time. One guy I know out there has an old nova with an absurd amount of power, very under stressed in standard trim.When was the last time you saw a 1970 Vauxhall Ventora, a 1980 Audi 100, or even a 1990 Ford Escort?
Me neither.
SuperHangOn said:
The Europeans tend to put a lot of effort into interior plastics, perfect panels gaps etc to create a percieved quality... but are any of the mechanical components actually better? My guess is probably not.
Consumer reliability surveys suggest not. Audi are the king of "perceived quality" but in terms of reliability and durability they are worse than average.
This was also my experience of an A4 S line. Shiny, pretty and with lovely surfaces, but gearbox, coil pack, fuel pump, air con compressor all failed..
As it was carted off on the back of a low loader for the third time, I don't recall still being all that impressed with its soft touch plastics or the way the glove box was damped when you opened it...
Having spent a lot of time on business in the states and driven everything from a corvette to a Sebring i would say that the interior build quality and fit is lower than many european and japanese cars.
Not that they are lower quality as such, but there tends to be a sea of plastic (by that i mean a poor texture/finish) and sharp edges on mouldings e.t.c.
I have also owned a few American made cars (and a bike) and to be honest you cant fault the reliability. My Mrs' jeep cherokee was bullet proof and my old chap had a grand cherokee with 190K+ on the clock and it was better than the 60k Range rover he replaced it with!
Like i say the definition of poor quality is more than likely fit and finish rather than its no good.
Not that they are lower quality as such, but there tends to be a sea of plastic (by that i mean a poor texture/finish) and sharp edges on mouldings e.t.c.
I have also owned a few American made cars (and a bike) and to be honest you cant fault the reliability. My Mrs' jeep cherokee was bullet proof and my old chap had a grand cherokee with 190K+ on the clock and it was better than the 60k Range rover he replaced it with!
Like i say the definition of poor quality is more than likely fit and finish rather than its no good.
They have a slightly different ethos, the build things to be strong, durable and to be consumable, their stuff, from plumbing to clothing tends to be like this, built to a price but generally always fit for purpose.
They go for comfort, ease of use and convenience, the service industry over there is the same, plus they like good value and not being ripped off, they wont put up with it.
Their cars do last, I go over a couple of times a year and I see some utter horrors fro the seventies and eighties still dragging themselves around, like Uncle Bucks car, clonking, bent bodywork, faded paint and crumbling interiors but still going, they dont bother with an MOT.
I rent cars over there a lot and I like them, we had a Dodge Caravan and it was big and comfy, not as agile as our Galaxy at home and despite a nigh on 300 bhp V6 it didnt feel any faster, it did climb death valley, fully laden with us in comfort and I arrived after 400 mile stints at the wheel not hating it. I had a V8 Mustang last Sept and it was great, ok, the plastics were scratchy but what a fun car, I think if you have got down to dash plastics as a comparison, you have run out of ideas.
American cars work over there, over here, even with the LHD thing ignored they are a bit big and have the wrong engine.
They go for comfort, ease of use and convenience, the service industry over there is the same, plus they like good value and not being ripped off, they wont put up with it.
Their cars do last, I go over a couple of times a year and I see some utter horrors fro the seventies and eighties still dragging themselves around, like Uncle Bucks car, clonking, bent bodywork, faded paint and crumbling interiors but still going, they dont bother with an MOT.
I rent cars over there a lot and I like them, we had a Dodge Caravan and it was big and comfy, not as agile as our Galaxy at home and despite a nigh on 300 bhp V6 it didnt feel any faster, it did climb death valley, fully laden with us in comfort and I arrived after 400 mile stints at the wheel not hating it. I had a V8 Mustang last Sept and it was great, ok, the plastics were scratchy but what a fun car, I think if you have got down to dash plastics as a comparison, you have run out of ideas.
American cars work over there, over here, even with the LHD thing ignored they are a bit big and have the wrong engine.
I've never owned a US car here but I have driven a fair few whilst on holiday/business travel. I was pretty impressed with the 2012 mustang I hired last summer, nice durable dash, no problems in the 4 weeks I had it (though it was only 6weeks old) - slightly less of the scratchy plastic thus quite a pleasant place to be. Have had various other white goods style chevies and the quality was on par if not better than the lower end euro-boxes from Pug or Reno. Its funny have people have these bizarre perceptions.
GolfSupplierAU said:
I have always wondered how a nation which can engineer themselves out of our atmosphere, to the moon....
I think that you may find it was Ze Germans who arranged that particular trick. You know, for a few years during and after after the 'unpleasantness' 
Or is history of trans atmospheric flight not a strong subject with you?
Edited by TVR1 on Thursday 7th March 23:24
So they break quickly and and you have to buy a new one, capitalism at its best
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__________________________________________________________________
No honour without virtue
spåtjenester
fight the powah!
klarsynte
synske
Edited by alicesoy0503 on Tuesday 19th March 16:58
MJK 24 said:
An Elise clamshell flexes under the weight of bird droppings! It's still a very well engineered car.
The Mk2 Clio had plastic front wings. As does the Volkswagen Touareg. The Volvo S80 has a plastic bootlid. Nothing wrong with plastic panels as long as you can get a decent colour match.
Dunno if you're talking about later Elises, but the clamshells on S1s aren't flexible, particularly. The Mk2 Clio had plastic front wings. As does the Volkswagen Touareg. The Volvo S80 has a plastic bootlid. Nothing wrong with plastic panels as long as you can get a decent colour match.
They'll sometimes flex rather than smash in slow speed incidents, a is the nature of fibreglass, but they certainly don't flex when pushed by hand.
Things like the bootlid on early Elises are different mind, and do dent very easily, but they were aluminium rather than fibreglass.
I believe S2s onwards had a different build process (not hand laid) and were thinner as a result. So apologies if your comment is with regard to those..
Edit: I see you have an S2.. So point taken! I thought I'd seen your name before somewhere.
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Thursday 7th March 23:46
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