Bikes are cool until.....
Discussion
Benj1984 said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Benj1984 said:
so what's the difference in doing 60 on a CBR125 to doing 60 on an R1?
One's idling at around 2 grand rpm at almost closed throttle, the other is semi tucked in at 8 thou rpm in top with throttle to the stop.Benj1984 said:
What's the type of engine got to do with it. By the way, 4 stroke is what everyone modern super bike is, and also what every car is bar a few rare models in history.
Also, 2 strokes can be crazy fast. All the old GP500 bikes where 2 strokes and brutal.
I know. My point was no four stroke 125 has ever been caught speeding on a motorway... Also, 2 strokes can be crazy fast. All the old GP500 bikes where 2 strokes and brutal.
On a 125, 4 strokes need serious work to hit 20 bhp. Spend a similar amount on a 2 stroke and you can get 40 plus. A massive difference.
Benj1984 said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Benj1984 said:
so what's the difference in doing 60 on a CBR125 to doing 60 on an R1?
One's idling at around 2 grand rpm at almost closed throttle, the other is semi tucked in at 8 thou rpm in top with throttle to the stop.Benj1984 said:
I have ridden at 70 on a 125, but wasn't really the point I was making. Even if they did 50-60, it's still the speed limits on most A-roads, so what's the difference in doing 60 on a CBR125 to doing 60 on an R1?
Because 1mm (or a couple of degrees) of throttle movement on an R1 equates to about 10mph difference in 1st or second gear (I can't remember which, it's been a couple of years since I sold the R1) - not much more than taking up the tension in the throttle cable can see a big change in torque.A ham-fisted learner will very easily get themselves into trouble anywhere from 0-70 on a bike that can do 0-100 in first gear.
If you've ever seen someone accidentally hitting the brake in an automatic when they thought it was the clutch (or done it yourself) you will realise how much our muscles learn what is required of them. The level of finesse required to use the throttle properly doesn't come instantly.
Benj1984 said:
What's the type of engine got to do with it. By the way, 4 stroke is what everyone modern super bike is, and also what every car is bar a few rare models in history.
Also, 2 strokes can be crazy fast. All the old GP500 bikes where 2 strokes and brutal.
Because a 4-stroke 125 is probably going to be the learner power limit of 11kW anyway; a 2-stroke 125 is most likely going to be limited to meet regulations, and deristricted would probably be putting out nearer 30-33bhp (thinking RS125) so might hit 100mph with a tail wind - not legal for a learner, but possible.Also, 2 strokes can be crazy fast. All the old GP500 bikes where 2 strokes and brutal.
xRIEx said:
Because 1mm (or a couple of degrees) of throttle movement on an R1 equates to about 10mph difference in 1st or second gear (I can't remember which, it's been a couple of years since I sold the R1) - not much more than taking up the tension in the throttle cable can see a big change in torque.
If that was the case, presuming that the R1 did 100mph in first gear, that would make the throttle travel about 1cm, sounds a bit short? If this above statement is true for second gear, presuming the bike can do 120ish in second, that would make the usable throttle travel in second gear 1.2cm, would it not? I don't doubt they are sensitive to the throttle but not 1mm=10mph sensitive.MrB1obby said:
As far as I remember, a top Superbike can brake similar to a Civic Type R. The big sports tourers are slightly better though because of their wheelbase, I think the best is about 40 metres from 70mph.
I dunno about that, he hardly seemed to slow at all, stamp on the anchors in my Civic and it stops pretty damn quick !Mastodon2 said:
xRIEx said:
Because 1mm (or a couple of degrees) of throttle movement on an R1 equates to about 10mph difference in 1st or second gear (I can't remember which, it's been a couple of years since I sold the R1) - not much more than taking up the tension in the throttle cable can see a big change in torque.
If that was the case, presuming that the R1 did 100mph in first gear, that would make the throttle travel about 1cm, sounds a bit short? If this above statement is true for second gear, presuming the bike can do 120ish in second, that would make the usable throttle travel in second gear 1.2cm, would it not? I don't doubt they are sensitive to the throttle but not 1mm=10mph sensitive.Although, with a QA throttle it wouldn't be too far off - a quarter or fifth turn to full would be about be about 10-13mm at the grip circumference I would guess.
ETA - in fairness, the standard throttle was about a third of a turn to full - so at a guess, 1.6mm would be about 10mph (1 tenth of throttle). Actually, it's probably less given that idle is 1/11 of the rev range.
Edited by xRIEx on Sunday 4th August 18:19
Hugo a Gogo said:
they're very cool, then
f
king freezing in fact (if you're not waring anything waterproof)
Just a guess, but neither of you ride?f
king freezing in fact (if you're not waring anything waterproof)Yes rain isn't ideal, but with half decent gear and throttle control it's fine. The problem in the rain is the idiot car drivers that assume they're about to slide off the road at any moment and do 30mph or simply throw it at the scenery.
The assumption that rain + bike = freezing cold and uncomfortable is just wrong unless you get caught out in the wrong gear.
Given the traffic jams when it rains, i'd still rather be on the bike.
dapearson said:
Just a guess, but neither of you ride?
Yes rain isn't ideal, but with half decent gear and throttle control it's fine. The problem in the rain is the idiot car drivers that assume they're about to slide off the road at any moment and do 30mph or simply throw it at the scenery.
The assumption that rain + bike = freezing cold and uncomfortable is just wrong unless you get caught out in the wrong gear.
Given the traffic jams when it rains, i'd still rather be on the bike.
Indeed- I wear goretex kit and arrive at my workplace warm and dry in 13-15 minutes by bike. The same journey takes 25-30 mins at best in traffic. That gives me 7.5mins either side of the journey to put on and take off the bike kit. Yes rain isn't ideal, but with half decent gear and throttle control it's fine. The problem in the rain is the idiot car drivers that assume they're about to slide off the road at any moment and do 30mph or simply throw it at the scenery.
The assumption that rain + bike = freezing cold and uncomfortable is just wrong unless you get caught out in the wrong gear.
Given the traffic jams when it rains, i'd still rather be on the bike.
CBR JGWRR said:
Benj1984 said:
What's the type of engine got to do with it. By the way, 4 stroke is what everyone modern super bike is, and also what every car is bar a few rare models in history.
Also, 2 strokes can be crazy fast. All the old GP500 bikes where 2 strokes and brutal.
I know. My point was no four stroke 125 has ever been caught speeding on a motorway... Also, 2 strokes can be crazy fast. All the old GP500 bikes where 2 strokes and brutal.
On a 125, 4 strokes need serious work to hit 20 bhp. Spend a similar amount on a 2 stroke and you can get 40 plus. A massive difference.
Benj1984 said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Benj1984 said:
so what's the difference in doing 60 on a CBR125 to doing 60 on an R1?
One's idling at around 2 grand rpm at almost closed throttle, the other is semi tucked in at 8 thou rpm in top with throttle to the stop.xRIEx said:
Benj1984 said:
What's the type of engine got to do with it. By the way, 4 stroke is what everyone modern super bike is, and also what every car is bar a few rare models in history.
Also, 2 strokes can be crazy fast. All the old GP500 bikes where 2 strokes and brutal.
Because a 4-stroke 125 is probably going to be the learner power limit of 11kW anyway; a 2-stroke 125 is most likely going to be limited to meet regulations, and deristricted would probably be putting out nearer 30-33bhp (thinking RS125) so might hit 100mph with a tail wind - not legal for a learner, but possible.Also, 2 strokes can be crazy fast. All the old GP500 bikes where 2 strokes and brutal.
xRIEx said:
Benj1984 said:
I have ridden at 70 on a 125, but wasn't really the point I was making. Even if they did 50-60, it's still the speed limits on most A-roads, so what's the difference in doing 60 on a CBR125 to doing 60 on an R1?
Because 1mm (or a couple of degrees) of throttle movement on an R1 equates to about 10mph difference in 1st or second gear (I can't remember which, it's been a couple of years since I sold the R1) - not much more than taking up the tension in the throttle cable can see a big change in torque.A ham-fisted learner will very easily get themselves into trouble anywhere from 0-70 on a bike that can do 0-100 in first gear.
If you've ever seen someone accidentally hitting the brake in an automatic when they thought it was the clutch (or done it yourself) you will realise how much our muscles learn what is required of them. The level of finesse required to use the throttle properly doesn't come instantly.
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