Stylish Seven Seater Search.
Discussion
surveyor said:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Put your pre-conceptions away
Much better made than earlier versions and 2.0 diesel is more refined and also more reliable than the 1.9, and is chain driven, that saves a major headache down the line.
While they are not made for speed they will easily keep up with traffic, and cruise at 90+ I used to get 38mpg out of ours no matter what I did to it.
IMHO this is the right answer.Put your pre-conceptions away
Much better made than earlier versions and 2.0 diesel is more refined and also more reliable than the 1.9, and is chain driven, that saves a major headache down the line.
While they are not made for speed they will easily keep up with traffic, and cruise at 90+ I used to get 38mpg out of ours no matter what I did to it.
The 2.0 diesel is the only engine you should get. The 1.9, 2.2 and 3.0 V6 diesels can be big trouble, and the petrols are quite heavy on fuel.
They have all the NCAP stuff etc.
Most of the faults on the earliest ones (dash clusters etc.) were ironed out with the 2.0 version.
They are huge inside since all the passenger seats can be physically removed.
They have a wonderfully soft ride - classic French luxury car stuff - and are IMHO the most stylish 7-seaters ever made. The dashboard looks futuristic even today. Kudos to Renault for having the balls to put that into production.
Nothing since then has managed to hit so many bases - stylish, practical, luxurious, good to drive - in the way that the Mk4 Espace did. It's a shame they stopped making them. I would buy another.
Mercedes R-class is a good shout but there are not many 7-seat versions out there, they can be difficult to park, they are not as big inside as the Espace, and I'm not sure you'll get a top one for 15K, whereas the same sum will get you pretty much the newest and best Espace out there.
Chrysler Grand Voyager is a possibility but they are slower, not as nice to drive, and reliability is thought to be iffy (although I am told that most of the common problems have known fixes).
Ford Galaxy is a very good choice, but IMHO not as stylish as the Espace.
It constantly amazes me that no-one ever mentions these when a "What 7 seater?" thread comes up:
Or if thats not PH enough for you, how about this version:
We've got a previous gen one, and it's been absolutely bloody brilliant for the 4 years we've had it. It may not be the best looking car out there, but as 7 seaters go, I reckon you'd be hard pressed to find something which looks more 'stylish'.
Or if thats not PH enough for you, how about this version:
We've got a previous gen one, and it's been absolutely bloody brilliant for the 4 years we've had it. It may not be the best looking car out there, but as 7 seaters go, I reckon you'd be hard pressed to find something which looks more 'stylish'.
John Galt said:
It constantly amazes me that no-one ever mentions these when a "What 7 seater?" thread comes up:
Or if thats not PH enough for you, how about this version:
We've got a previous gen one, and it's been absolutely bloody brilliant for the 4 years we've had it. It may not be the best looking car out there, but as 7 seaters go, I reckon you'd be hard pressed to find something which looks more 'stylish'.
Are they officially available in the UK, or are they JDM import only? I can't see them on the Honda website...?Or if thats not PH enough for you, how about this version:
We've got a previous gen one, and it's been absolutely bloody brilliant for the 4 years we've had it. It may not be the best looking car out there, but as 7 seaters go, I reckon you'd be hard pressed to find something which looks more 'stylish'.
If the OP allows JDM imports, then some quite cool stuff comes into play (e.g. Toyota Previa)
I just drove about 500km through Switzerland and Germany for the yearly visit to the Austrian Alps, and it looked like about 70% of the cars on the road had a roof box on. The only exceptions were lots of S-Max, VW Caravelle, Grand Espace and the 3 R-Klass MB's that we saw. I mean almost all large estates (including E-Klass, Superb etc), SUV's, not to mention sedans were literally jammed to the roofline and were carrying a roofbox. The passangers in them also did not look particularly comfortable as they were probably also carrying stuff on their laps.
The Grand Espace is in deed a valid proposition, as is of course the wildly popular S-Max (it really is a very good product). However the R-Klasse trumps with a long wheelbase, large 6 cyl CDI, 4wd, Airmatic Suspension a straight-line highway ride stability that has no rival, and looks (especially the pre-facelift model) that are very distinctive in todays corporate blandness. Especially in silver with the AMG styling Pack, they look rather cool.
Most SUV's are surprisingly small and impractical on the inside, and are by no means "cool", the vast majority being good at almost nothing except "looking tough".
After this trip I am seriously questioning whether the classic sedan/estate body styles actually still suit the transporting needs of the contemporary family (that seems to carry way too much crap along). The roof box solution is fairly uncomfortable, produces noise, extra fuel consumption and reduced highway speed.
Happy new year
The Grand Espace is in deed a valid proposition, as is of course the wildly popular S-Max (it really is a very good product). However the R-Klasse trumps with a long wheelbase, large 6 cyl CDI, 4wd, Airmatic Suspension a straight-line highway ride stability that has no rival, and looks (especially the pre-facelift model) that are very distinctive in todays corporate blandness. Especially in silver with the AMG styling Pack, they look rather cool.
Most SUV's are surprisingly small and impractical on the inside, and are by no means "cool", the vast majority being good at almost nothing except "looking tough".
After this trip I am seriously questioning whether the classic sedan/estate body styles actually still suit the transporting needs of the contemporary family (that seems to carry way too much crap along). The roof box solution is fairly uncomfortable, produces noise, extra fuel consumption and reduced highway speed.
Happy new year
If you can get a Discovery 3 within budget, I'd say go for that.
Row 3 seats are spacious enough for small adults (more so than the XC90 I found)
To drive: Great on long runs, with a really good ride. Don't take it on a circuit.
It's easy enough to park, as the corners of the car are all square and visible. It is big mind.
Fuel: We got 22-24 in town, and 28ish on UK long runs (but that tumbles on the continent/if you up the speed).
Row 3 seats are spacious enough for small adults (more so than the XC90 I found)
To drive: Great on long runs, with a really good ride. Don't take it on a circuit.
It's easy enough to park, as the corners of the car are all square and visible. It is big mind.
Fuel: We got 22-24 in town, and 28ish on UK long runs (but that tumbles on the continent/if you up the speed).
Friends have just bought a 2 litre diesel SMax for exactly this purpose - took a run out in it at the weekend and it's rather like being in a car, unlike our previous MPV. They needed good ground clearance to get up the unmade track leading to their house, and have ordered a set of winters to deal with the inevitable ice & snow.
They've previously owned a Freelander in the same location and regard winter tyres as far more useful and cost-effective than 4x4 (although acknowledge both together would be best - if money were no object!)
We have some money in the pipeline in the next 3-6 months and checking out an SMax properly is top of my list. XC90 / R Class / Discovery / Defender all sound great but I can't even justify the man-maths to myself - there's too many other bills with a growing family.
Finally, if you're on a 3 year replacement cycle you're probably doing it wrong - the car I got right is still with us after 9 years. The cars I get wrong struggle to stick around for 3 years.
They've previously owned a Freelander in the same location and regard winter tyres as far more useful and cost-effective than 4x4 (although acknowledge both together would be best - if money were no object!)
We have some money in the pipeline in the next 3-6 months and checking out an SMax properly is top of my list. XC90 / R Class / Discovery / Defender all sound great but I can't even justify the man-maths to myself - there's too many other bills with a growing family.
Finally, if you're on a 3 year replacement cycle you're probably doing it wrong - the car I got right is still with us after 9 years. The cars I get wrong struggle to stick around for 3 years.
Nikko 40691 said:
I'd be looking at an S-Max personally.
^^^This if she can't be coaxed into a volvo S-max is a decent enough steer - drove one to Austria last year and it was potent enough (2.0 diesel,)comfortable, reasonable on juice and swallowed up 4 adults and all our ski gear, then did several airport runs picking up 6/7 people at a time whilst over there. Look quite nice for an MPV too - I'd rather a Volvo estate with 7 seats but hey ho, If the 6' 4" "child" is 16 surely he'll be looking at driving his own car in a years time and won't be an issue for much longer?
morgrp said:
^^^This if she can't be coaxed into a volvo
S-max is a decent enough steer - drove one to Austria last year and it was potent enough (2.0 diesel,)comfortable, reasonable on juice and swallowed up 4 adults and all our ski gear, then did several airport runs picking up 6/7 people at a time whilst over there. Look quite nice for an MPV too - I'd rather a Volvo estate with 7 seats but hey ho, If the 6' 4" "child" is 16 surely he'll be looking at driving his own car in a years time and won't be an issue for much longer?
We've been through 7 seater Volvo estates, and the rear two seats are too small. We both have a fondness for them too, she (quite spectacularly actually) shortened hers and it did what it says on the tin, crumpled symmetrically and they walked away. Mine was a bit different with an R badge on the back. S-max is a decent enough steer - drove one to Austria last year and it was potent enough (2.0 diesel,)comfortable, reasonable on juice and swallowed up 4 adults and all our ski gear, then did several airport runs picking up 6/7 people at a time whilst over there. Look quite nice for an MPV too - I'd rather a Volvo estate with 7 seats but hey ho, If the 6' 4" "child" is 16 surely he'll be looking at driving his own car in a years time and won't be an issue for much longer?
and I miss it so. As for 16yr old, now 17, have you tried getting an insurance quote? (He is my eldest's "special friend" and hence as her father I am actually quite comfortable with the fact that insurance is proving to be a barrier) - and hence the need for 6seats as he trails round with us, and with other children who probably also acquire same in short order - the need will grow to 7.
Sadly, she has deemed (largely unseen) that an S-Max and XC90 are too small no matter how competent a vehicle they are, sorry suggestees. So am secretly compiling a database of (7seat) R-Class's for sale locally such that we might "accidentally" end up the right parish. "Well... we might as well have a look whilst were here...."
I don't expect to succeed, and sense replacement big MPV on the horizon, but as I said in the OP, part of my rationale is not only to sort this one out, but if properly done it unlocks options as to what change my vehicle(s) for later...
IroningMan said:
surveyor said:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Put your pre-conceptions away
Much better made than earlier versions and 2.0 diesel is more refined and also more reliable than the 1.9, and is chain driven, that saves a major headache down the line.
While they are not made for speed they will easily keep up with traffic, and cruise at 90+ I used to get 38mpg out of ours no matter what I did to it.
We had a 2.2dci. When it worked it was terrific, and I drove it non-stop from Somerset to Spain on a number of occasions, but in reliability terms it was an utter catastrophe. The 2.0 is, I'm sure, much better, but I don't know that I'd risk another.Put your pre-conceptions away
Much better made than earlier versions and 2.0 diesel is more refined and also more reliable than the 1.9, and is chain driven, that saves a major headache down the line.
While they are not made for speed they will easily keep up with traffic, and cruise at 90+ I used to get 38mpg out of ours no matter what I did to it.
Regarding the OP's criteria for style; for a people carrier I think the Espace/Grand Espace is the most stylish out there and considering the design is now over 10 years old it still looks fresh, they are supremely comfy and will cruise all day.
HTP99 said:
Avoid the 2.2 dCi at all costs, it isn't a question of "it may need a new engine at some point", more like "how many new engines has it had?" The 2.0 dCi is a far better proposition.
Regarding the OP's criteria for style; for a people carrier I think the Espace/Grand Espace is the most stylish out there and considering the design is now over 10 years old it still looks fresh, they are supremely comfy and will cruise all day.
Is the auto still regarded as a liability too?Regarding the OP's criteria for style; for a people carrier I think the Espace/Grand Espace is the most stylish out there and considering the design is now over 10 years old it still looks fresh, they are supremely comfy and will cruise all day.
fathomfive said:
HTP99 said:
Avoid the 2.2 dCi at all costs, it isn't a question of "it may need a new engine at some point", more like "how many new engines has it had?" The 2.0 dCi is a far better proposition.
Regarding the OP's criteria for style; for a people carrier I think the Espace/Grand Espace is the most stylish out there and considering the design is now over 10 years old it still looks fresh, they are supremely comfy and will cruise all day.
Is the auto still regarded as a liability too?Regarding the OP's criteria for style; for a people carrier I think the Espace/Grand Espace is the most stylish out there and considering the design is now over 10 years old it still looks fresh, they are supremely comfy and will cruise all day.
HTP99 said:
Regarding the OP's criteria for style; for a people carrier I think the Espace/Grand Espace is the most stylish out there and considering the design is now over 10 years old it still looks fresh, they are supremely comfy and will cruise all day.
They do look rather good, however the seats in the back look a bit uncomfortable for adults (short, narrow). How are they on highway runs, especially at speeds of 160-180 km/h (100-110 mph)? My top priority is long distance comfort for myself as a driver and the passangers (supple suspension, roominess and straight line directional stability). If one was to use this strictly for 3-4 long distance runs /year the 3,5 petrol V6 (shared with the 350Z) is also interesting.
Which production years are to be recommended/avoided?
flatso said:
HTP99 said:
Regarding the OP's criteria for style; for a people carrier I think the Espace/Grand Espace is the most stylish out there and considering the design is now over 10 years old it still looks fresh, they are supremely comfy and will cruise all day.
They do look rather good, however the seats in the back look a bit uncomfortable for adults (short, narrow). How are they on highway runs, especially at speeds of 160-180 km/h (100-110 mph)? My top priority is long distance comfort for myself as a driver and the passangers (supple suspension, roominess and straight line directional stability). If one was to use this strictly for 3-4 long distance runs /year the 3,5 petrol V6 (shared with the 350Z) is also interesting.
Which production years are to be recommended/avoided?
The rear seats are fine for comfort and the good thing with these is that all 5 rear seats are the same and are completely interchangeable, they also have built in seat belts so wherever the seat is the seatbelt is in the optimum position, however as the seats are so substantial they are rather heavy and cumbersome but as they sit on rails rather than fixed points and the mechanism is on the seat rather than in the rail they slot in really easily and anywhere along the rail; early ones had the contact points in the rail and frequently they became misaligned and had to be realigned with a supplied tool, they were a pain to have to put the seats back in, you are looking up to 2005 ish though.
There aren't many late ones around and the prices are all over the place as there is no real guide as such as there are so few, make sure it has a FSH, there is no cambelt on the 2.0 dCi to worry about and make sure the discs and pads are all good, if not budget for new ones within the price as they cost the earth. Early ones had a bespoke very epxensive stereo that sat in the boot which tended to go wrong however later ones had a standard din head unit hidden in the dash under one of the cubby's so far easier and cheaper to replace, if the car has sat nav, as most did which was either a crappy Carminat system or later ones had a TomTom, make sure it all works as they are linked to the head unit, the TomTom is the one to have as it is easily updated using an SD card.
Go for a Grand as opposed to the standard length, as well as it being longer it isn't just tapped on to the back as the wheelbase is slightly longer too which makes a world of difference inside, a foot doesn't sound like a lot but believe me it does make a lot of difference.
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