RE: BMW launches latest ActiveAssist tech
Discussion
I had a go last year in a Skoda Yeti with active counter steer. It was surprisingly good and very natural. You can buy that car already!
I think this has the potential to greatly improve the performance of ESP. At the moment, an ESP tune has to take in to account people who aren't very good....i.e. People who don't know how to counter steer or don't counter steer quick enough. Inevitably, the broader the operating conditions, the harder it is to cover all bases. If all drivers counter steered correctly, you could be a lot less interfering with the brakes, but as it is, you just have to assume that everyone can't counter steer, so you cut your cloth to suit. If on the other hand, the steering system can be commanded to counter steer for the driver, you can now be sure that the correct amount of corrective lock will be applied every time!
As long as this counter steer system is well calibrated, it can be transparent to the proficient driver (the Skoda basically felt like a normal car in oversteer until you stopped counter steering as you normally would) but greatly help the average one. This ultimately means that you can make up for people's deficiencies before resorting to 'putting the brakes on' and the average driver has a safe car, but the proficient driver has a fun and natural feeling one that doesn't want to stop them having fun.
Ultimately, an ESP system should flatter the driver and not punish them IMO. This provides another step in that direction, and takes us further away from the wrist slap of old!
I think this has the potential to greatly improve the performance of ESP. At the moment, an ESP tune has to take in to account people who aren't very good....i.e. People who don't know how to counter steer or don't counter steer quick enough. Inevitably, the broader the operating conditions, the harder it is to cover all bases. If all drivers counter steered correctly, you could be a lot less interfering with the brakes, but as it is, you just have to assume that everyone can't counter steer, so you cut your cloth to suit. If on the other hand, the steering system can be commanded to counter steer for the driver, you can now be sure that the correct amount of corrective lock will be applied every time!
As long as this counter steer system is well calibrated, it can be transparent to the proficient driver (the Skoda basically felt like a normal car in oversteer until you stopped counter steering as you normally would) but greatly help the average one. This ultimately means that you can make up for people's deficiencies before resorting to 'putting the brakes on' and the average driver has a safe car, but the proficient driver has a fun and natural feeling one that doesn't want to stop them having fun.
Ultimately, an ESP system should flatter the driver and not punish them IMO. This provides another step in that direction, and takes us further away from the wrist slap of old!
Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 7th January 17:34
RacerMike said:
wood634 said:
I bet if you turn it off then the black box records that and your insurance becomes invalid. Big Brother is watching....
How's that tin foil hat going these days? :P 
Galileo is going to cost a billion a year in state funding and its got to make a return somehow, once road charging is in place vehicle monitoring will be simple.
mrmr96 said:
Why not? Motorway driving is boring. I'd happily take a system which I would drive manually from home to the motorway, then engage. I could relax whilst it got me to my exit, then when I reach the offramp the system deactivates and I can drive myself to the office.
Of course I still want to be able to drive for pleasure on country roads and the like, but on motorways there's no fun to be had from driving, AT ALL. So a system to do that for me would be very welcome.
I like motorway driving.Of course I still want to be able to drive for pleasure on country roads and the like, but on motorways there's no fun to be had from driving, AT ALL. So a system to do that for me would be very welcome.
The time is coming when all motorsport will be undermined by technology that can do the job better.
'Ring' times will be calculated using software and more significantly, watching that software steer the 'performance' car in autonomous mode around the track.
Human races will be a little underwhelming knowing that more performance can be had if you just pressed a button on the wheel and let go.
The only motorsports worth watching will be silly monster power drag racing and other such niche spectator sports.
'Ring' times will be calculated using software and more significantly, watching that software steer the 'performance' car in autonomous mode around the track.
Human races will be a little underwhelming knowing that more performance can be had if you just pressed a button on the wheel and let go.
The only motorsports worth watching will be silly monster power drag racing and other such niche spectator sports.
Absolutely fascinating :-)
Is this really a world's first ? Surely other manufacturers had this nailed years earlier ? So is just laws that preventing this ATM.
Apparently in 2020 the laws will be changing world wide to allow this technology according to the Autocar report on this BMW Self Drift
Reminds me of KITT from Knight Rider from the video on Autocar :-)
Is this really a world's first ? Surely other manufacturers had this nailed years earlier ? So is just laws that preventing this ATM.
Apparently in 2020 the laws will be changing world wide to allow this technology according to the Autocar report on this BMW Self Drift
Reminds me of KITT from Knight Rider from the video on Autocar :-)
161BMW said:
Absolutely fascinating :-)
Reminds me of KITT from Knight Rider from the video on Autocar :-)
Let's hope they put in a boost mode that let's you do 150 mph as long as the car is driving. We've been stuck doing 70 mph since the 1960s. Its about time something came along to give the legislation an update. Reminds me of KITT from Knight Rider from the video on Autocar :-)
Fantastic! Keep this brilliant Tech coming.
Why? This is great news for those who don't drive for driving's own sake and merely want to get from A-B safely which is the vast majority of motorists. We, i.e. those who enjoy our cars as ultimate toys and like to drive them, would be extremely selfish to deny anything that will improve general motorists the ability to drive even more safely.
There will always be cars for the purists - sure, the choice might dwindle over the coming decades but they'll exist as there will be a market. The far larger market will be for affordable safe cars and it can only be a good thing. Sure, there will be some who cannot cope with the idea of more electronics in cars but overall, most will want it.
Few drivers take an Advanced course and it is oft mentioned that the average driver hasn't a clue how to deal with their shiny new 300bhp car should something go wrong. So this tech goes some way to resolving that.
My wife likes to drive spiritedly on occasion but while she knows the Theory, I wonder how her instincts would behave if she found herself sliding at speed - this tech in her car would give me some peace of mind.
Why? This is great news for those who don't drive for driving's own sake and merely want to get from A-B safely which is the vast majority of motorists. We, i.e. those who enjoy our cars as ultimate toys and like to drive them, would be extremely selfish to deny anything that will improve general motorists the ability to drive even more safely.
There will always be cars for the purists - sure, the choice might dwindle over the coming decades but they'll exist as there will be a market. The far larger market will be for affordable safe cars and it can only be a good thing. Sure, there will be some who cannot cope with the idea of more electronics in cars but overall, most will want it.
Few drivers take an Advanced course and it is oft mentioned that the average driver hasn't a clue how to deal with their shiny new 300bhp car should something go wrong. So this tech goes some way to resolving that.
My wife likes to drive spiritedly on occasion but while she knows the Theory, I wonder how her instincts would behave if she found herself sliding at speed - this tech in her car would give me some peace of mind.
matsoc said:
Some years ago there was similar skepticism about ESP, now who wants to switch it off for road driving?
Me, I drive much better with ESP off (forces you to be a little more alert) and find it more enjoyable.My car has a v8, skinny tyres (by modern standards) and not even traction control. In a years driving only once has it needed more than a dab of oppo.
crosseyedlion said:
Me, I drive much better with ESP off (forces you to be a little more alert) and find it more enjoyable.
My car has a v8, skinny tyres (by modern standards) and not even traction control. In a years driving only once has it needed more than a dab of oppo.
Whilst you're totally right, and I agree with your sentiment, there are things that ESP can do that you, or I or even Lewis Hamilton can't do.My car has a v8, skinny tyres (by modern standards) and not even traction control. In a years driving only once has it needed more than a dab of oppo.
No matter how skilled a driver is, a car with ESP will be more stable during an emergency lane change than one without. The car with ESP will always succeed in completing a lane change faster than the car without. i.e. The car with ESP will avoid an accident that is inevitable in one without it.
Modern ESP systems, even on powerful RWD V8s are considerably less intrusive than those of old. They don't make up for poor driving, but they do help to stop that one instance when you'd be in a hedge whilst remaining out of the way the rest of the time. There's really no reason to turn ESP completely off on the road.
I wonder of Richard Newton and his solicitor have seen this; he was the chap who appeared in court recently for driving at over 60mph with his hands behind his head controlling the steering wheel with his knees. He was convicted of careless driving but not dangerous driving.
Ok, not the same thing as a car driving itself, but if the is no human interaction between the steering wheel and a human being, is it that much different. He argued that his foot was on the brake pedal and he could obviously have taken control with his hands in a split second.
I would suggest that if BMW want to have this technology accepted in the UK then the law would need to be changed, as at the moment the words 'driver' and 'being in control' don't fit with his technology in my mind. Even things like drink driving law would need to be addressed, as at the moment if you have the keys in your possession you are 'in charge' of the vehicle, unless the circumstances are such that there was no realistic chance of you 'driving'...
Ok, not the same thing as a car driving itself, but if the is no human interaction between the steering wheel and a human being, is it that much different. He argued that his foot was on the brake pedal and he could obviously have taken control with his hands in a split second.
I would suggest that if BMW want to have this technology accepted in the UK then the law would need to be changed, as at the moment the words 'driver' and 'being in control' don't fit with his technology in my mind. Even things like drink driving law would need to be addressed, as at the moment if you have the keys in your possession you are 'in charge' of the vehicle, unless the circumstances are such that there was no realistic chance of you 'driving'...
rijmij99 said:
We have lots of automated technology that still needs qualified human oversight so I wouldn't worry just yet.
Now when we automate everything and have no need for humans at all, that's when you worry
Personally it will be a sad day, when you get into the back of your driverless car to take you to the train station, you buy a train ticket at the automated machine, get on the driverless train. When you arrive at the airport you check in at the automated check in to drop your luggage off, you then go to marks and Spencer's where you buy some lunch an pay at te self check out to board your flight with a pilotless airplane.Now when we automate everything and have no need for humans at all, that's when you worry
Obviously that is in the far future but it is a reality at some point and is a great shame as the level of human interaction comes less and less.
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