RE: Honda Civic Type R EP3: Catch It While You Can
Discussion
Mastodon2 said:
I'm struggling to think of any area where the ST matches or beats the EP3, apart from weight. 30kgs lighter, but being 50bhp down on the EP3. Smaller, not as nimble handling, worse fuel economy, decidely average Ford gearbox with only 5 gears vs the slick, close ratio 6 speed of the Civic. And worst of all, where the EP3 gets a glorious screaming VTEC unit, the ST got a gruff, untuned lump from a Mondeo dumped in it.
This.The first Fiesta ST was a hateful little turd of a motor in my eyes, pointy in the corners without a doubt, but that's about it.
ALBA MELV said:
Decent standard ones will probably become rarer as the prices come down. I'm starting to see more chavs with them. "Slammed" so that the back bumper is 1" from the tar, a crappy backbox with a 8" tailpipe, crazy colured wheels and stickers obscuring view from the front and rear screens. That, plus being driven at 8k revs at any possible opportunity.
There's no such thing as 'chavs' really. I mean they were made up by papers like the Daily Mail/Wail/Fail to demonize teenage trouble starters with a big ego and a small IQ. I see more 1.4/1.6 Honda and VW cars modified than any other type of car. Type-R's get modified but far fewer because of the much higher insurance costs.
I liked the EP3 Type-R I drove but it was a facelift and it's the first Type-R I've driven. I've been a passenger in an Integra Type-R but I've never driven one.
daytona365 said:
They're very appealing on a number of levels, only trouble is, don't many chavs/gangstas also think this way ?
Doesn't strike me as a gangsters car. Mine being used as a car to commute to work in has been faultless, plenty of power for real world driving, including in the lower revs (not sure where this bad press comes from) comfy and entertaining enough on a cheap budget. As for the numb dead steering, yes I've driven in better feeling cars but it's not horrendous as some people would have you believe. Tiff Needel stated on fifth gear that it was the best handling front wheel drive car he'd ever driven. This was in 2001 though.
k-ink said:
I can understand the fuss over the original civic type r, or a DC2. However all subsequent honda efforts have suffered dull witted steering. Not classics in the making!
What's your opinion on the Accord Type R in this regard? I would argue it's steering is every bit as good as it was in my DC2 (although I appreciate it is more of a contemporary of the original CTR & DC2 than a newer model). From my experiences with the EP3 & S2000 I would certainly agree though. What has changed in the newer models that is causing this lack of feedback?
Squirrelofwoe said:
What's your opinion on the Accord Type R in this regard? I would argue it's steering is every bit as good as it was in my DC2 (although I appreciate it is more of a contemporary of the original CTR & DC2 than a newer model). From my experiences with the EP3 & S2000 I would certainly agree though.
What has changed in the newer models that is causing this lack of feedback?
EP3 and s2000 had electric power steering...What has changed in the newer models that is causing this lack of feedback?
I liked my EP3. Had it for over three years from new and put fifty-odd thousand miles on it. Steering apart, it was pretty much my idea of the perfect hot hatch. Actually, the steering was only annoying on a short test drive, you soon get used to it, and pretty much every new courtesy car I've driven since has been significantly worse, so I guess it's just the modern way.
By the time I got rid of mine, it was starting to approach the EK9 in the "council" factor. No doubt they will all get through that stigma eventually, once enough have been written off.
By the time I got rid of mine, it was starting to approach the EK9 in the "council" factor. No doubt they will all get through that stigma eventually, once enough have been written off.
l354uge said:
Do these have similar steering feel to the EP2 sports?
The steering on my friends EP2 feels utterly disconnected....
I once had an EP2 courtesy car from the Honda dealer while mine was being serviced. To be honest, it was hard to believe it shared any DNA with my car, though that was a blessing over speed bumps.The steering on my friends EP2 feels utterly disconnected....
Kozy said:
For what reasons, out of interest?
I'm inclined to agree - I'd take an EP3 over an EK9.For me, every EK9 I have been in has felt woefully underpowered. Raw, exciting and frantic, yes, but the lack of torque really makes them hard work (and slow) on the road. The 0-60 time (around 5.7s IIRC) flatters the EK9, but if the wind is in the wrong direction it will take you another 15 seconds to get to 100mph. Even on track an EP3 will sail past on the straights.
I would buy a Civic Type-R to thrash about in, throw a mountain bike in the back and tackle a welsh b road, and possibly take on track. For those purposes the EP3 is a better, more versatile car. It's less rare, it's cheaper to buy, it's newer, you can find ones that aren't rusty, parts are cheaper, it's cheaper to insure, the engine is brilliant, the gearbox is great, it's more tuneable, it's faster on the road and it's more like a normal car when you don't feel like driving at 110%.
At these prices you get so much car for your money. You would have to be a bit of a fanboy to choose an EK9 over an EP3.
Oz83 said:
I'm inclined to agree - I'd take an EP3 over an EK9.
For me, every EK9 I have been in has felt woefully underpowered. Raw, exciting and frantic, yes, but the lack of torque really makes them hard work (and slow) on the road. The 0-60 time (around 5.7s IIRC) flatters the EK9, but if the wind is in the wrong direction it will take you another 15 seconds to get to 100mph. Even on track an EP3 will sail past on the straights.
I would buy a Civic Type-R to thrash about in, throw a mountain bike in the back and tackle a welsh b road, and possibly take on track. For those purposes the EP3 is a better, more versatile car. It's less rare, it's cheaper to buy, it's newer, you can find ones that aren't rusty, parts are cheaper, it's cheaper to insure, the engine is brilliant, the gearbox is great, it's more tuneable, it's faster on the road and it's more like a normal car when you don't feel like driving at 110%.
At these prices you get so much car for your money. You would have to be a bit of a fanboy to choose an EK9 over an EP3.
Fair one!For me, every EK9 I have been in has felt woefully underpowered. Raw, exciting and frantic, yes, but the lack of torque really makes them hard work (and slow) on the road. The 0-60 time (around 5.7s IIRC) flatters the EK9, but if the wind is in the wrong direction it will take you another 15 seconds to get to 100mph. Even on track an EP3 will sail past on the straights.
I would buy a Civic Type-R to thrash about in, throw a mountain bike in the back and tackle a welsh b road, and possibly take on track. For those purposes the EP3 is a better, more versatile car. It's less rare, it's cheaper to buy, it's newer, you can find ones that aren't rusty, parts are cheaper, it's cheaper to insure, the engine is brilliant, the gearbox is great, it's more tuneable, it's faster on the road and it's more like a normal car when you don't feel like driving at 110%.
At these prices you get so much car for your money. You would have to be a bit of a fanboy to choose an EK9 over an EP3.
FWIW, the 0-60 on the EK9 is more like 6.7, the 5.7 figure was a myth.
Disagree about an EK9 vs EP3 on track though. I had an EK4 built to EK9 spec (suspension, engine, LSD) and EP3s regularly got in the way on track, even on the straights. Obviously, driver skill factored, but they really weren't any faster and the EK4 was a good 70-80kg heavier than the EK9.
Mastodon2 said:
I'm struggling to think of any area where the ST matches or beats the EP3, apart from weight. 30kgs lighter, but being 50bhp down on the EP3. Smaller, not as nimble handling, worse fuel economy, decidely average Ford gearbox with only 5 gears vs the slick, close ratio 6 speed of the Civic. And worst of all, where the EP3 gets a glorious screaming VTEC unit, the ST got a gruff, untuned lump from a Mondeo dumped in it.
I had the option and I went for the ST for the simple reason that it was a much nicer place to be. I had full leather, mp3, bluetooth phone and heated seats which when you are sitting in a traffic jam every day in winter in Scotland is more important that an extra 50bhp. The seats arent as grippy as the tyre R anniversary recaros i tried, but they were comfier over a long distance. The civic just wasnt a nice place place to sit to be honest, it felt cheap and tinny and put me off quite a bit. Fiesta was crying out for a 6th gear, even if just for economy on the motorway.
Neil_M said:
The EP3's are now at a price point, that would make them into an intriguing project car... A good base to improve upon. I'd be tempted to have one as a track toy.
Which is what I did. I bought one near the bottom of the price range, 125,000 miles and still pulling as it should. I've had it a year and have slowly rebuilt the front suspension and brakes in that time. Took it to Le Mans and back, and also had the odd blast over the North York Moors with assorted TVR's and such like. Then in three weeks time it'll be having some fresh engine oil and a good thrashing round Cadwell Park.Stupidly cheap for whats on offer, and they've been round for long enough thats theirs lots of spare parts, and DIY guides plus fixes for most of the major issues.
Squirrelofwoe said:
What's your opinion on the Accord Type R in this regard? I would argue it's steering is every bit as good as it was in my DC2 (although I appreciate it is more of a contemporary of the original CTR & DC2 than a newer model). From my experiences with the EP3 & S2000 I would certainly agree though.
What has changed in the newer models that is causing this lack of feedback?
Whisper it quietly, but I rate the ATR above the DC2 and DC5, and far above any of the Civics. Vastly under-rated car.What has changed in the newer models that is causing this lack of feedback?
Cue the rantings of DC2 owners telling me my personal opinion is wrong...
I was very lucky to find my one owner from new, FSH, Completely standard EP3 in Milano Red.
I love the car, I drive it hard every day and have only added an AEM Induction kit and tinted the rear windows (for the dogs) and will maybe look at some eibachs but that is it, no loud exhausts or bodkits.
I love the car, I drive it hard every day and have only added an AEM Induction kit and tinted the rear windows (for the dogs) and will maybe look at some eibachs but that is it, no loud exhausts or bodkits.
Oz83 said:
Kozy said:
For what reasons, out of interest?
I'm inclined to agree - I'd take an EP3 over an EK9.For me, every EK9 I have been in has felt woefully underpowered. Raw, exciting and frantic, yes, but the lack of torque really makes them hard work (and slow) on the road. The 0-60 time (around 5.7s IIRC) flatters the EK9, but if the wind is in the wrong direction it will take you another 15 seconds to get to 100mph. Even on track an EP3 will sail past on the straights.
I would buy a Civic Type-R to thrash about in, throw a mountain bike in the back and tackle a welsh b road, and possibly take on track. For those purposes the EP3 is a better, more versatile car. It's less rare, it's cheaper to buy, it's newer, you can find ones that aren't rusty, parts are cheaper, it's cheaper to insure, the engine is brilliant, the gearbox is great, it's more tuneable, it's faster on the road and it's more like a normal car when you don't feel like driving at 110%.
At these prices you get so much car for your money. You would have to be a bit of a fanboy to choose an EK9 over an EP3.
Ali_T said:
Whisper it quietly, but I rate the ATR above the DC2 and DC5, and far above any of the Civics. Vastly under-rated car.
Bravo sir. Love mine. Such an epic car for so little cash thanks to being off the fanboi JDM scene tax radar.The only problem I have with it is that despite being a big car with a massive boot, you can't anything particularly large in it.
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