RE: Six great supercars for BMW M3 money
Discussion
Ten Four said:
Not bias at all.....
I don't think they've aged that bad as everyone is making it out to be...
I love the pop ups.
Nice looking from the front - it's just the hideious back end and interior. I don't think they've aged that bad as everyone is making it out to be...
I love the pop ups.
Edited by Ten Four on Wednesday 26th November 15:29
I apprecaite that by all accounts they are a good car.
mwstewart said:
Nice looking from the front - it's just the hideious back end and interior.
I apprecaite that by all accounts they are a good car.
I'm not blind and can see the rear has dated. But compared to a 348?I apprecaite that by all accounts they are a good car.
What's wrong with the interior? Lovely soft leather and the console is simple and functional. Its not new with screens everywhere of course but I don't see how its aged horribly?
I'll cop it for this, but comparing to a lotus esprit for example, NSX interior is years ahead imho.
Ten Four said:
I'm not blind and can see the rear has dated. But compared to a 348?
What's wrong with the interior? Lovely soft leather and the console is simple and functional. Its not new with screens everywhere of course but I don't see how its aged horribly?
I'll cop it for this, but comparing to a lotus esprit for example, NSX interior is years ahead imho.
I'm with you when in comparison to the 348. The NSX looks much better.What's wrong with the interior? Lovely soft leather and the console is simple and functional. Its not new with screens everywhere of course but I don't see how its aged horribly?
I'll cop it for this, but comparing to a lotus esprit for example, NSX interior is years ahead imho.
PZR said:
Pistonheads said:
Ignore the fact that the GT-R is a big, heavy coupe, has four seats (notionally - it's a 2+2 really), a large boot and has a badge as exotic as a pint of milk because the Nissan is one of the greatest and fastest supercars in modern history.
In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.
Some pint of milk, that.
I'm not quite sure which definition of the word exotic you are using, but I don't think that just being old qualifies. Besides, Audi is older than Nissan. And what racing were the company involved in before the 1930's, while Scuderia Ferrari were running the factory Alfa Romeo racing team and winning Grands Prix, Le Mans, the Mille Miglia and the Targa Florio, and Auto Union (of which Audi was one of the Union) were part of the German Silver Arrow steamroller in GP racing and speed record-breaking?
PZR said:
Why are Nissan not as "exotic" a company as Ferrari, Audi, Honda, Noble and Porsche?
They are not exotic in the same way Hotpoint and Frigidaire aren't exotic. They are known as mass producers of white goods. Mention the name Nissan to most people, and all they'll associate it with are millions of bland Micras, Sunnys and Primeras. Occasional dabbling in motorport in order to sell a few extra million bland boxes on wheels does not make them any more exotic, which is why I don't perceive Honda or Audi to be in any way exotic either.thegreenhell said:
PZR said:
Pistonheads said:
Ignore the fact that the GT-R is a big, heavy coupe, has four seats (notionally - it's a 2+2 really), a large boot and has a badge as exotic as a pint of milk because the Nissan is one of the greatest and fastest supercars in modern history.
In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.
Some pint of milk, that.
I'm not quite sure which definition of the word exotic you are using, but I don't think that just being old qualifies. Besides, Audi is older than Nissan. And what racing were the company involved in before the 1930's, while Scuderia Ferrari were running the factory Alfa Romeo racing team and winning Grands Prix, Le Mans, the Mille Miglia and the Targa Florio, and Auto Union (of which Audi was one of the Union) were part of the German Silver Arrow steamroller in GP racing and speed record-breaking?
PZR said:
Why are Nissan not as "exotic" a company as Ferrari, Audi, Honda, Noble and Porsche?
They are not exotic in the same way Hotpoint and Frigidaire aren't exotic. They are known as mass producers of white goods. Mention the name Nissan to most people, and all they'll associate it with are millions of bland Micras, Sunnys and Primeras. Occasional dabbling in motorport in order to sell a few extra million bland boxes on wheels does not make them any more exotic, which is why I don't perceive Honda or Audi to be in any way exotic either.I don't want to diminish the history and achievements of the other companies. Mainly because they are undeniable, but also because I'm a genuine admirer of all of them (yes, even underdog Noble) and have owned three of the marques in question. However, Ferrari wasn't actually making his own racing cars until the early 1940s at least and we might be comparing apples to pears if we count Scuderia Ferrari and Ferrari S.p.A. as the same thing in this context. I understand some of Audi's complicated lineage and we are talking (surely?) here about the post 1932 merger four rings of Wanderer, DKW, Horch and the original Audi, are we not? Nissan Jidosha KK was a similar re-naming/rebranding in 1932, coincidentally.
What I want to do is point out that Nissan is far more than the "mass producer of white goods" that you call it (I notice you pointed at Hotpoint and Frigidaire rather than Sub-Zero or Wolf...!), is far older than most people realise, has been involved in motorsport for far longer than most people realise (like most people you don't seem to know what they were doing in the 1930s, for instance) and is a very interesting and complex industrial organisation.
There are actually many interesting parallels to be drawn in the histories of all the companies concerned (with the obvious exception of Noble). All native to former Axis powers that were devastated by war, effectively starting from zero in the post war period, and some of them (Porsche - in a way, Audi and Nissan for sure) involved in designing and manufacturing war materiel.
If you think that the name of Nissan is effectively nothing it can only mean that you know next to nothing about the company. If you can't see past those "millions of bland Micras, Sunnys and Primeras" to - for example - the satellites and their launch systems, then there's not much point in me trying to explain.
PZR said:
If you think that the name of Nissan is effectively nothing it can only mean that you know next to nothing about the company. If you can't see past those "millions of bland Micras, Sunnys and Primeras" to - for example - the satellites and their launch systems, then there's not much point in me trying to explain.
I think if what is plainly visible to an observer sparks no interest in the origins, history and accomplishments of that subject then that is the very definition of "not exotic". However, in the interests of this discussion I did some reading on the internet about the company, and read your responses more than once for clues, but I'm afraid I have to stick with my original assessment. The Nissan brand is as exotic as porridge.I am in exactly this market at the moment, and have narrowed it down to R8 and 360.
On balance, the Ferrari for specialness and possible appreciation. The R8 is a much better bet mechanically though. 360s need care, regularly eat things like balljoints (not cheap), and are from a different era of build quality. I saw one last summer in my perfect spec, at a reputable specialist (they were selling for an owner). It needed balljoints, a clutch, some minor paintwork corrections, a service and a few other mechanical wear and tear bits. Was quoted £10k to get it sorted.
Er...
On balance, the Ferrari for specialness and possible appreciation. The R8 is a much better bet mechanically though. 360s need care, regularly eat things like balljoints (not cheap), and are from a different era of build quality. I saw one last summer in my perfect spec, at a reputable specialist (they were selling for an owner). It needed balljoints, a clutch, some minor paintwork corrections, a service and a few other mechanical wear and tear bits. Was quoted £10k to get it sorted.
Er...
Edited by Harry Flashman on Thursday 27th November 16:44
PZR said:
In some ways, the Nissan badge is arguably more "exotic" than the others mentioned.
A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.
By the same token, Vauxhall must therefore be one of the world's most exotic marques. After all, Vauxhall started making cars in 1903 and was exceptionally successful in motorsport well before most other manufacturers were even established.A company that's older than most of the other companies mentioned in the article, a company which has been making cars for longer than all of the companies mentioned, and a company that was involved in racing (and building racing cars) before all of the other companies mentioned in the article.
Or how about Hyundai and Daewoo? Whose aerospace division builds some of the world's most advanced aircraft.
Conversely, Lamborghini cannot be exotic according to these criteria: founded as late as 1963, with no motorsport heritage to speak of, never on the leading edge of technology, and with its roots in farm vehicles.
said:
The Lotus Esprit Sport 300.... Its engine, meanwhile, was also a work-of-art, producing 302bhp from its 2.2-litre turbo. With a kerbweight of just 1,200kg you can understand why it is a paid up member of the supercar club
ErmAn RX7 with mild tweaking gets 340+bhp from it's 1.3 (or 2.6 depending how you measure it) It's kerb weight is similar and a decent one is circa £6k
They look better too.
And will probably be more reliable (can't usually say that)
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