RE: TDI the new PPI
Discussion
As ours is EU6 it's apparently unaffected and so we wouldn't be compensated anyway - even though it's been caught up in anti-VW opinion specifically and more widely by VW helping turn the tide against diesel.
Before we bought our Tiguan in Sept 15 (a few days prior to the emissions news coming out) I checked the price of the 3yr old same spec version on WBAC and it was £16K.
I've rechecked a few times since, still using 3yr old cars, and it's now around £12K.
The galling thing is that I intended to run the car for 3yrs and then dump it. The fall in values means I'd have been better leasing, rather than buying.
Before we bought our Tiguan in Sept 15 (a few days prior to the emissions news coming out) I checked the price of the 3yr old same spec version on WBAC and it was £16K.
I've rechecked a few times since, still using 3yr old cars, and it's now around £12K.
The galling thing is that I intended to run the car for 3yrs and then dump it. The fall in values means I'd have been better leasing, rather than buying.
I would quite like the class-action to win and set a precedent. Far too often do class actions in the US result in them getting extended warranties on items that the OEM has either known about or just didn't signoff correctly.
Immediate examples that come to mind are N54 turbo actuator failures in BMW x35i engines. BIG bill if they fail, and a lot do, and in the US they come with a 10 year warranty and F-all here.
Immediate examples that come to mind are N54 turbo actuator failures in BMW x35i engines. BIG bill if they fail, and a lot do, and in the US they come with a 10 year warranty and F-all here.
CoolHands said:
Why? I couldn't care less. All the manufacturers jump through these artificial hoops created by governments so what difference does it make? They create more soot or NOx than reported, but they all - do it's total b
ks. First google and:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/d...
97% of diesel cars emit more NOx than official limit. It's all a joke.
+1 ks. First google and:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/d...
97% of diesel cars emit more NOx than official limit. It's all a joke.
It's really quite sad that not only the general public, but also people from specialized motoring forum are so badly informed that they not see through this.
Overview of the car emission in a nutshell:
- (in the late 90's) EU introducing plans for emission regulation of CO2 far beyond physical limits of current technology of internal combustion engine.
Probably with massive lobby from VAG and Germany - this is their true guilt.
This leads to the mass expansion of the diesel engines to the passanger cars.
- EU introducing regulations of pollutants (EURO) including NOx beyond physical limits of diesel engine period.
These two sets of regulations are going directy against each other.
- EU representatives are hitting themselves in the chest about how they are fighting the emissions.
- In the meantime they are silently approving all the cheating practices to protect their manufacturers, who are crucial for employment and whole economic.
- VAG is trying to sell diesel engines in the U.S., where no one cares about CO2 but NOx emissions are even stricter
- VAG is caught up cheating in the US
- VAG confesses to their sins (*)
- VAG is bashed in the US
- VAG is bashed in the EU. Other EU selling manufacturers are holding their breaths
- Milions of misinformed people are jumping on the bandwagon
- Diesels from another EU selling companies are being tested, all of them failing the real world tests producing multiples or tenfolds of allowable NOx emissions.
- VAG cars are among the better in the real word testing
- No one from general public notices, people are still jumping on the band wagon.
- Oher manufacturers deny the accusations, saying that in the official testing their vehicles will comply with the law. Period. (* that is what the VW should have done in the first place, rationally)
- No one notices, people are still jumping on the bandwagon.
...
Edited by Zajda on Monday 9th January 23:07
They lied and cheated to sell more cars
A by product of lower taxation classes is that HMRC will have missed out too - as well as the congestion charge exempt ones of a few years ago also trumpeted by VW as a win for the consumer
Screw them I say
Was it Napoleon who shot a general now and again to keep the others honest?
Zajda said:
+1
It's really quite sad that not only the general public, but also people from specialized motoring forum are so badly informed that they not see through this.
Overview of the car emission in a nutshell:
- (in the late 90's) EU introducing plans for emission regulation of CO2 far beyond physical limits of current technology of internal combustion engine.
Probably with massive lobby from VAG and Germany - this is their true guilt.
This leads to the mass expansion of the diesel engines to the passanger cars.
- EU introducing regulations of pollutants (EURO) including NOx beyond physical limits of diesel engine period.
These two sets of regulations are going directy against each other.
- EU representatives are hitting themselves in the chest about how they are fighting the emissions.
- In the meantime they are silently approving all the cheating practices to protect their manufacturers, who are crucial for employment and whole economic.
- VAG is trying to sell diesel engines in the U.S., where no one cares about CO2 but NOx emissions are even stricter
- VAG is caught up cheating in the US
- VAG confesses to their sins (*)
- VAG is bashed in the US
- VAG is bashed in the EU. Other EU selling manufacturers are holding their breaths
- Milions of misinformed people are jumping on the bandwagon
- Diesels from another EU selling companies are being tested, all of them failing the real world tests producing multiples or tenfolds of allowable NOx emissions.
- VAG cars are among the better in the real word testing
- No one from general public notices, people are still jumping on the band wagon.
- Oher manufacturers deny the accusations, saying that in the official testing their vehicles will comply with the law. Period. (* that is what the VW should have done in the first place, rationally)
- No one notices, people are still jumping on the bandwagon.
...
Still, when it comes down to it lied and cheated. It's really quite sad that not only the general public, but also people from specialized motoring forum are so badly informed that they not see through this.
Overview of the car emission in a nutshell:
- (in the late 90's) EU introducing plans for emission regulation of CO2 far beyond physical limits of current technology of internal combustion engine.
Probably with massive lobby from VAG and Germany - this is their true guilt.
This leads to the mass expansion of the diesel engines to the passanger cars.
- EU introducing regulations of pollutants (EURO) including NOx beyond physical limits of diesel engine period.
These two sets of regulations are going directy against each other.
- EU representatives are hitting themselves in the chest about how they are fighting the emissions.
- In the meantime they are silently approving all the cheating practices to protect their manufacturers, who are crucial for employment and whole economic.
- VAG is trying to sell diesel engines in the U.S., where no one cares about CO2 but NOx emissions are even stricter
- VAG is caught up cheating in the US
- VAG confesses to their sins (*)
- VAG is bashed in the US
- VAG is bashed in the EU. Other EU selling manufacturers are holding their breaths
- Milions of misinformed people are jumping on the bandwagon
- Diesels from another EU selling companies are being tested, all of them failing the real world tests producing multiples or tenfolds of allowable NOx emissions.
- VAG cars are among the better in the real word testing
- No one from general public notices, people are still jumping on the band wagon.
- Oher manufacturers deny the accusations, saying that in the official testing their vehicles will comply with the law. Period. (* that is what the VW should have done in the first place, rationally)
- No one notices, people are still jumping on the bandwagon.
...
Edited by Zajda on Monday 9th January 23:07
PS. Don't trust the Guardian. It's almost as bad as Bbcnews online for partial/misleading reporting.
Let's see links to manufacturers being taken for lawsuits?
Edited by hora on Tuesday 10th January 07:37
I don't particularly want VAG or any firm to go bust but I am all for them being giving a good kicking over this. The technology is there to improve the nox performance of diesels, but VAG didn't want to invest in the proper process and cheated. The real world NOX test results of modern diesels are a disgrace and its us and our kids which will suffer from this with more and more cancers and other unpleasant ailments.
Making me nearly as sick are all those people claiming "we're so upset by the damage our vehicles are causing". Most people these days don't give a f*** about the environment. The number of people I see parked outside shops with their engines running for ages and ages whilst they use the internet or are just too bone idle to switch of the ignition, clearly unperturbed at the stuff being kicked out of the tailpipe and breathed in by those walking by......
Making me nearly as sick are all those people claiming "we're so upset by the damage our vehicles are causing". Most people these days don't give a f*** about the environment. The number of people I see parked outside shops with their engines running for ages and ages whilst they use the internet or are just too bone idle to switch of the ignition, clearly unperturbed at the stuff being kicked out of the tailpipe and breathed in by those walking by......
greenarrow said:
I don't particularly want VAG or any firm to go bust but I am all for them being giving a good kicking over this. The technology is there to improve the nox performance of diesels, but VAG didn't want to invest in the proper process and cheated. The real world NOX test results of modern diesels are a disgrace and its us and our kids which will suffer from this with more and more cancers and other unpleasant ailments.
So actually you want all diesel manufacturers to get a good kicking? Maybe diesel owners should also get a good shoeing as well since a tiny bit of research would have shown they are not clean engines. Easier to live in ignorance and blame everyone else I suppose.sparks_E39 said:
It's not a software update it's a rewrite. We have an affected car and I refuse to sign up. First of all values are not affected, 2015/2016 were record years for VW sales. It took 30 minutes to change software and all is well. It is the PPI, where there's blame there's a claim st all over again. I don't want VW's money. And yes £3k would be lovely right now.
VAG consciously and deliberately fitted a bit of kit in order to make their cars cheaper to manufacture. In doing so, they committed fraud against the regulators, but more importantly, deceived their customers. How anyone can continue to trust that brand following that is beyond me. I'm opposed to the usual compensation claims, as in general it's undeserved moneygrabbing; however in this case they deserve every eurocent dragged from them.t all over again. I don't want VW's money. And yes £3k would be lovely right now.LP670 said:
daveco said:
I wonder what cost saving measures VW will introduce to try to balance the books asap? 
probably reduce the quality of the parts people cant see, oh wait....Cut jobs = more bad rep
Reduce quality of components = more bad rep
Offer cars at discounted prices = bad for customers who bought, before the sh*t hit the fan
The most amusing part is that (akin to PPI), people think VAG will somehow be out of pocket and 'learn their lesson'. Ha! Now I can't be bothered to work out the maths, but I'm pretty sure that all VAG customers going forwards will be paying for the cost of this - not VAG. £50 on top of the price of all news cars and you've sorted it.
Where VAG take a hit is on the share value - and this is purely caused by the negative PR and will recover (and then some) when the storm passes - they say nice things, appear to be 'paying their dues' and still make increased profits and sell new cars by the bucket load.
I find this righteous indignation laughable. I've never once in all my days heard a person ask about NOX when buying a new car. MPG - yes, but NOX - no. And even then, anyone who believes the quoted MPG figure only has themselves to blame...petrol, diesel or electric.
Where VAG take a hit is on the share value - and this is purely caused by the negative PR and will recover (and then some) when the storm passes - they say nice things, appear to be 'paying their dues' and still make increased profits and sell new cars by the bucket load.
I find this righteous indignation laughable. I've never once in all my days heard a person ask about NOX when buying a new car. MPG - yes, but NOX - no. And even then, anyone who believes the quoted MPG figure only has themselves to blame...petrol, diesel or electric.
PhantomPH said:
I find this righteous indignation laughable. I've never once in all my days heard a person ask about NOX when buying a new car. MPG - yes, but NOX - no. And even then, anyone who believes the quoted MPG figure only has themselves to blame...petrol, diesel or electric.
You're right, of course - no-one walks into a dealership and asks about NOX levels, in the same way that no-one walks into Sainsburys asking about the levels of arsenic in cheese.Surely you can see that the levels of righteous indignation aren't aimed at NOX levels, but rather at the way in which the manufacturer deceived people? Would you be so keen to forgive if your favourite cheese manufacturer lied about the levels of arsenic in their Cheddar?
Cotic said:
You're right, of course - no-one walks into a dealership and asks about NOX levels, in the same way that no-one walks into Sainsburys asking about the levels of arsenic in cheese.
Surely you can see that the levels of righteous indignation aren't aimed at NOX levels, but rather at the way in which the manufacturer deceived people? Would you be so keen to forgive if your favourite cheese manufacturer lied about the levels of arsenic in their Cheddar?
There's arsenic in my cheese?Surely you can see that the levels of righteous indignation aren't aimed at NOX levels, but rather at the way in which the manufacturer deceived people? Would you be so keen to forgive if your favourite cheese manufacturer lied about the levels of arsenic in their Cheddar?
GET ME SOME MONEY!!
As an owner of one of the affected engines in my Skoda, I don't know how to feel about this.
At the moment, I haven't had any recent updates in the progress of the recall to have the car in and give it the necessary update to pass these tests, if indeed an update is needed.
What I cannot know, is if the value of the car has fallen as a result of this "scandal" more than just the expected depreciation - I bought a 5-ish year old Skoda, with the intention of running it for 3 years and 40k miles. I don't know what an 8 year old Skoda with FSH and 80k miles was worth before the "scandal" broke because there were none on the market as there were no 8 year old versions at that time. But I'm not sure that I would be able to to claim anything based on that speculation.
If it were to go in for the upgrade and suffers a measurable loss of performance at that time - that would make me unhappy, as I specifically chose the 170 bhp model to benefit from the slightly increased power to live up to the necessary 2.0 VAG TDI stereotypes...
TLDR - Haven't signed up.
Cotic said:
PhantomPH said:
I find this righteous indignation laughable. I've never once in all my days heard a person ask about NOX when buying a new car. MPG - yes, but NOX - no. And even then, anyone who believes the quoted MPG figure only has themselves to blame...petrol, diesel or electric.
You're right, of course - no-one walks into a dealership and asks about NOX levels, in the same way that no-one walks into Sainsburys asking about the levels of arsenic in cheese.Surely you can see that the levels of righteous indignation aren't aimed at NOX levels, but rather at the way in which the manufacturer deceived people? Would you be so keen to forgive if your favourite cheese manufacturer lied about the levels of arsenic in their Cheddar?
The manufacturer is fabricating a situation...those (ok, not ALL) are fabricating a loss in order to gain financially. And lets not dress this up - if VW gave me £3-5k compensation, I would struggle to rationalise that to a £3-5k loss. To me it feels like a whiplash claim when there is nothing wrong with you....everyone is doing it, so I may as well get paid.
In this situation, I would speculate that the majority of people who make a claim, are just as bad as VAG.
"It's up to the lawyers to prove the software was a functioning defeat device over here too, and helped cars get Euro 5 certification they shouldn't otherwise have received."
Right, so if they have done nothing wrong in Europe, why has my Tiguan and every other TDi needed a software recall?
Right, so if they have done nothing wrong in Europe, why has my Tiguan and every other TDi needed a software recall?
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