Your car needs discs and pads sir...
Discussion
ianrb said:
Have trained my wife to ask 'What is the current thickness and what is the service limit?' They usually shut up after that.
I’ve asked this too and the person making the call never knows!“They are 60% worn sir”
“Thanks, so there is still 40% remaining, the car does 2k miles a year, how many YEARS do you think they will last?” :-)
OldSkoolRS said:
That's my view too: If a job takes less than 2 hours,
I watched through the big window between service waiting and workshop while a mechanic changed the front pads and discs on a Golf up on a 2 post lift and it took him 5 mins per side, and he wasn't rushing. Amazing when you've got the kit and the skils - the disc retaining screw came straight out and the disc fell off the lightest tap, that's never happened to me!Sheepshanks said:
OldSkoolRS said:
That's my view too: If a job takes less than 2 hours,
I watched through the big window between service waiting and workshop while a mechanic changed the front pads and discs on a Golf up on a 2 post lift and it took him 5 mins per side, and he wasn't rushing. Amazing when you've got the kit and the skils - the disc retaining screw came straight out and the disc fell off the lightest tap, that's never happened to me!Aren't they supposed to take the carrier off, put it into a vice and sand the surfaces back to being smooth? Also give everything a good clean up and copper grease the moving parts? Seems like this should take longer than 5 minutes.
I'm still new(ish) to home mechanics so maybe I'm just naive.
J4CKO said:
Brakes are one thing you can really save money on, mainly by checking them yourself and avoiding garages hitting you with this one.
My wifes car needed front brakes, was picked up on the MOT, I had said I knew they were due when I dropped it in and had the parts ready to go on, but still got a phone call saying did we want them doing, for £270.
No thanks, I have disks and pads ready to go, cost me £50 and about forty minutes of my time to fit them, so I saved £220 in that 40 mins, an hourly rate of £330.
People make excuses like they haven't got the time, usually quicker to do it myself than take it in and pick it up. I think some see it as a bit beneath them but unless you are absolutely minted with no debts at all it really isnt, its a good way to save a few quid rather than sticking it on a credit card. Takes some earning for most folk £220, especially when its from your taxed income, and then from your spare cash after bills, food, fuel etc. Can understand if you have a disability or nowhere to do it but a bit with a bit of planning it should be doable for most with half a brain.
The "not worth my time" excuse is crazy if you're actually capable of doing it yourself.My wifes car needed front brakes, was picked up on the MOT, I had said I knew they were due when I dropped it in and had the parts ready to go on, but still got a phone call saying did we want them doing, for £270.
No thanks, I have disks and pads ready to go, cost me £50 and about forty minutes of my time to fit them, so I saved £220 in that 40 mins, an hourly rate of £330.
People make excuses like they haven't got the time, usually quicker to do it myself than take it in and pick it up. I think some see it as a bit beneath them but unless you are absolutely minted with no debts at all it really isnt, its a good way to save a few quid rather than sticking it on a credit card. Takes some earning for most folk £220, especially when its from your taxed income, and then from your spare cash after bills, food, fuel etc. Can understand if you have a disability or nowhere to do it but a bit with a bit of planning it should be doable for most with half a brain.
Especially considering when you pay for labour to be done you're paying for it after you've paid income tax and NI. If you're earning enough to be high rate spending a couple of hours on changing discs and pads is far more "high-paying" than your job unless you're earning a lot.
Very few people are truly so well off that working a couple of hours is not worth a post-tax income of £270!
Nevermind the fact that you can shop around and get the parts cheaper as well etc.
Brakes are a Qashqai/Cashcow for service departments - you can see from the Eurocarparts prices - full retail price before discount, add labour, add sundries/lube/fitting kit, add VAT = £300+ for a shopping trolley. Mentioning it to the average Joe brings out instant death and fireballs, especially if they have children.
If brakes will last 19,999 miles and the next service department is at 20,000 then they will advise it to cover themselves.
I sent my Dad to my Romanian mechanic to have his brakes checked as he thought they were due. He said to come back in 6 months. 6 months later he turns up again - come back in 3 months. 3 months later he's back - oh we'll definitely do then in another 3 months.
If brakes will last 19,999 miles and the next service department is at 20,000 then they will advise it to cover themselves.
I sent my Dad to my Romanian mechanic to have his brakes checked as he thought they were due. He said to come back in 6 months. 6 months later he turns up again - come back in 3 months. 3 months later he's back - oh we'll definitely do then in another 3 months.
Bennet said:
I wonder how much time they billed the customer for.
Aren't they supposed to take the carrier off, put it into a vice and sand the surfaces back to being smooth? Also give everything a good clean up and copper grease the moving parts? Seems like this should take longer than 5 minutes.
I'm still new(ish) to home mechanics so maybe I'm just naive.
Cost would likely have been fixed price of £300ish. Although I've had dealers ask £4-500 on various cars and when you point out the fixed price they act like they're doing you a massive favour. To be fair, the Merc indie I switched to said for using genuine MB parts the fixed pricing isn't terrible. I've noticed since Covid that many marques have dropped fixed pricing deals now though.Aren't they supposed to take the carrier off, put it into a vice and sand the surfaces back to being smooth? Also give everything a good clean up and copper grease the moving parts? Seems like this should take longer than 5 minutes.
I'm still new(ish) to home mechanics so maybe I'm just naive.
As for cleaning everything, there was a bit of wire-brushing but that was it. Years ago brakes used to be stripped and cleaned as part of servicing but garages generally won't do it even if you offer to pay - it's the same work as changing the pads and they want the profit on those. It might make a come-back on EVs as the brakes aren't used much and service departments are going to have to trump up work to keep revenue coming in..
snuffy said:
What gets on my titend I'd that discs are now a serviceable part, but they never used to be, it was just the pads.
I believe its because a number of years ago, asbestos was banned from pads, so the pads don't wear down the same, but instead they wear out the discs much quicker now. And of course, discs are very expensive compared to pads.
My 9 year old Skoda is on the original discs@ 77k milesI believe its because a number of years ago, asbestos was banned from pads, so the pads don't wear down the same, but instead they wear out the discs much quicker now. And of course, discs are very expensive compared to pads.
Diy changed the rear pads for the first time last year. Will do the front pads this year.
Never changed discs on my car in 45 odd years motoring!
After reading the motoring quotes thread, this one has reminded me of "Someone's got to pay for all the free coffee".
My friends dealer experience went as follows: We went to pick up his car on a Friday. It was promised to be ready for the Thursday if he wanted to drop in early. Should be an easy job. Walk in, sign some papers, take the keys and get off. No such luck. After an hour wait, the car was pulled in for the discs that needed changing. Then another hour went by and they pulled it back in because they forgot to do the pads. Then another hour went by and the tyre that they needed to replace was finally in and that was sorted. Then we had to go to the local post office because the vehicle was a mobility car or something, then back and had to wait on the valeters to wash it. Then some snotty salesman gave us free pasties because a food van broke down outside and he asked for a 5 star review due to his benevolence. To top it off, we had a 15 minute wait for the sales manager to come and thank my friend for buying a car from them. On the way home, the tracking was off by a mile. Hardly a gleaming experience when you're paying for what should be a premium service.
My friends dealer experience went as follows: We went to pick up his car on a Friday. It was promised to be ready for the Thursday if he wanted to drop in early. Should be an easy job. Walk in, sign some papers, take the keys and get off. No such luck. After an hour wait, the car was pulled in for the discs that needed changing. Then another hour went by and they pulled it back in because they forgot to do the pads. Then another hour went by and the tyre that they needed to replace was finally in and that was sorted. Then we had to go to the local post office because the vehicle was a mobility car or something, then back and had to wait on the valeters to wash it. Then some snotty salesman gave us free pasties because a food van broke down outside and he asked for a 5 star review due to his benevolence. To top it off, we had a 15 minute wait for the sales manager to come and thank my friend for buying a car from them. On the way home, the tracking was off by a mile. Hardly a gleaming experience when you're paying for what should be a premium service.
Well what about when your CAR lies to you?
I knew my front disc were at the wear limit because I had measured them (40.000 miles) then the pad wear indicator lit up red on the dashboard.
The discs were at the limit, but I reckon the pads were round about 4mm which is only 50% worn.
But how do you write the algorithm to change the pads? How much safety factor or mileage do you have to allow to avoid a customer going through to the backing, or the piston falling out? Do you need at least 50% material to reduce heat transfer to the caliper?
I would have assumed 2mm remaining would have been a good point to light up the warning lamp, so 4mm was somewhat disappointing.
It still took me a good hour to do the work, even though everything went relatively straight-forward.
I knew my front disc were at the wear limit because I had measured them (40.000 miles) then the pad wear indicator lit up red on the dashboard.
The discs were at the limit, but I reckon the pads were round about 4mm which is only 50% worn.
But how do you write the algorithm to change the pads? How much safety factor or mileage do you have to allow to avoid a customer going through to the backing, or the piston falling out? Do you need at least 50% material to reduce heat transfer to the caliper?
I would have assumed 2mm remaining would have been a good point to light up the warning lamp, so 4mm was somewhat disappointing.
It still took me a good hour to do the work, even though everything went relatively straight-forward.
Once many years ago, straight after changing my front brake pads, i went to kwik fit (yeah I know but the tyres were on offer). I was in the waiting room when the guy comes in and says my front pads need changing. I asked him what the measurement was and he said "I haven't measured them i can just tell they need doing" When I explained I had spent the last hour fitting new pads he just walked off.
Just as a counter for these tales of woe (which I'm not disputing and have also experienced), some dealers do get it right.
When I took my i30N in for a service at the local Hyundai dealer, I was sent a video of the car on the ramps, with the technician pointing out (and zooming in on) condition of the brake pads and discs, tyres, suspension joints and bushes, shocks and springs and driveshaft gaiters. I also thought it was a nice touch that the oil filter and sump plug were both removed when filmed way of proof that the work had been done.
Everything was in order, the pads and discs still had plenty left, no additional work was recommended or advised, and the final bill matched the quote to the penny.
This stuff shouldn't be hard really.
When I took my i30N in for a service at the local Hyundai dealer, I was sent a video of the car on the ramps, with the technician pointing out (and zooming in on) condition of the brake pads and discs, tyres, suspension joints and bushes, shocks and springs and driveshaft gaiters. I also thought it was a nice touch that the oil filter and sump plug were both removed when filmed way of proof that the work had been done.
Everything was in order, the pads and discs still had plenty left, no additional work was recommended or advised, and the final bill matched the quote to the penny.
This stuff shouldn't be hard really.
bearman68 said:
So why do people go to main dealers for routine servicing if this is the way you are treated.
I understand if there is a warranty claim, but for an oil change? And we won't even mention the price.
Well, on the two VW / SEAT cars we have on the family fleet, they both have VAG's All In package, which for around £30/mth covers servicing (but, annoyingly, only basic - oil & filters etc - servicing), MOT, top level roadside assistance, and, the big one; unlimited mileage warranty with no excess.I understand if there is a warranty claim, but for an oil change? And we won't even mention the price.
I do use an "ordinary" garage for the Honda.
bearman68 said:
So why do people go to main dealers for routine servicing if this is the way you are treated.
I understand if there is a warranty claim, but for an oil change? And we won't even mention the price.
Warranty, goodwill, nicer facilities, browse other stuff while there, free stuff, makes you feel a bit posh, lack of knowledge that you can take it elsewhere especially within a warranty period, free car wash, lack of local specialist or trusted mechanic, preserve value of a car a bit with full manufacturer service history to name a fewI understand if there is a warranty claim, but for an oil change? And we won't even mention the price.
bearman68 said:
So why do people go to main dealers for routine servicing if this is the way you are treated.
I understand if there is a warranty claim, but for an oil change? And we won't even mention the price.
Because 9/10 people are blissfully ingnorant about how a car works, is fixed, or maintained, and haven't got the gumption to educate themselves enough to question it.I understand if there is a warranty claim, but for an oil change? And we won't even mention the price.
Sheepshanks said:
bearman68 said:
So why do people go to main dealers for routine servicing if this is the way you are treated.
I understand if there is a warranty claim, but for an oil change? And we won't even mention the price.
Well, on the two VW / SEAT cars we have on the family fleet, they both have VAG's All In package, which for around £30/mth covers servicing (but, annoyingly, only basic - oil & filters etc - servicing), MOT, top level roadside assistance, and, the big one; unlimited mileage warranty with no excess.I understand if there is a warranty claim, but for an oil change? And we won't even mention the price.
I do use an "ordinary" garage for the Honda.
One of the Porsche main dealers tried the ol’ discs & pads ruse on me when it was in for the first service. Needless to say I declined and they lasted many more years and miles…
Poor form they have to supplement their already extensive margins like this in my view. Suffice it to say I’ve not been back.
Poor form they have to supplement their already extensive margins like this in my view. Suffice it to say I’ve not been back.
My car is in for a routine service this morning.
I pretty quickly got a link to approve additional work - 2 rear tyres, front and rear discs and pads.
Per the accompanying video tyres are at nearly 5mm tread depth remaining, discs have some 'visible rust' on the inside faces and pads are 5-6mm.
They wanted nearly £1,300 for that so no thanks.
I pretty quickly got a link to approve additional work - 2 rear tyres, front and rear discs and pads.
Per the accompanying video tyres are at nearly 5mm tread depth remaining, discs have some 'visible rust' on the inside faces and pads are 5-6mm.
They wanted nearly £1,300 for that so no thanks.
EmailAddress said:
Or, get them to do it, and ask for the old set back while you wait.
Then ask the Manager what exactly is wrong with them and why you should be paying.
Good idea.Then ask the Manager what exactly is wrong with them and why you should be paying.
I wonder what would happen in that scenario if you dig your heels in?
Either they refit your old stuff or you get free discs and pads I suppose.
Wouldn't put it past them to have a shagged set on hand for that very situation.
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