RE: Vauxhall Monaro VXR 500 v Ford Shelby GT500

[dcb]

Original Poster said:

(Should help Vauxhall shift the last 50 VXRs, which linger unsold round the back of Luton somewhere.)

I think this speaks volumes for how good a car the market
thinks it is.

I understand the VXR500 is cheaper than the plain VXR, too.

I always thought the target market for this kind of
car was the ex-TVR owner who needed more than one
passenger seat.

Perhaps I'm wrong ;-|

[elliothand]

zektor said:

I don't know. But my Mustang GT sticks to the road very nicely thanks. Very little body roll since the suspension is 35% uprated.

As for the live rear axle. Not really a problem. It's supposed to be one of the best live rear axles setups ever made. Some journalists in the states were said to have looked under the car in disbelief when the car was originally released. In my opinion, there's a downside and an upside. Although the downside is not at all bad. The downside (if any!) is that mid corner bumps can make the axle "hop". I've felt this, but it doesn't make me nervous. The upside is launching from a stop. A live rear axle is excellent for putting the power down at the traffic light grand prix (and drag racing for that matter).

To be honest, as you all know... you very rarely get the chance to push a car to it's handling limits. Especially a car of this size! So based on that fact... the Mustang is an excellent proposition.

And it rides damn good as well. Even now that it's lowered/uprated!

But if your going to uprate the bad suspension of the mustang by 35% you should compare it to the monaro with 35% uprated too... compare like with like! If talking about modded cars then surely its too early to compare to modded vxr 500's as they only just out, I guess!

For my money, I'd go with the vxr... just sounds like a better car all over. Although styling is completely subjective... I'm just not that keen on the (american bling theme of your car).

[Dan_S V8]

The reason the mustangs post such quick 0-60 times is that they can do 60mph in first gear - after that they run out of steam! I don't know what Tom Ford was going on about last night about the VXR being able to do 75mph in first, that's complete rubbish! We had an 04 CV8 which has the same gearing and I think you changed to second at 45, thrid at 75 and fourth at a 100... 5th goes all the way to 155mph and then there is 6th which is geared until 236mph if you've got the power to get there! I also went for a ride in a VXR500 with all the bits and it is RAPID! It actually pulls harder after 100mph lol!

Also there is a VXR600 upgrade following shortly

Edited by Dan_S V8 on Tuesday 31st October 19:08

[4WD]

I'd go for understated classic style:

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Personally I think that photo show hom much it has in common with a brick with a lump on top but everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

[4WD]

It's a muscle car, not a bar of 996 soap.

[zektor]

elliothand - But that's the whole point. I don't believe you can compare the Monaro VXR500 directly with the GT500 on the suspension front. I think the suspension on the VXR is already a more extreme setup. Witness lower suspension, bigger wheels, lower profile tyres. And the Monaro press car doing the rounds is setup using "trick dampers with remote reservoirs" according to Autocar magazine. Again, an unfair comparison.

I was not comparing my car with a VXR. I was just merely stating that my car has been modified and in my opinion "sticks to the road quite nicely", and looks a bit nicer because of the modifications.

Agreed. Both cars could be modified to extreme limits. But then they would probably be as good as each other!

[LuS1fer]

Dan_S V8 said:

The reason the mustangs post such quick 0-60 times is that they can do 60mph in first gear - after that they run out of steam!

Lamentable. No they don't and no they don't. Stock 300bhp Mustang 0-60 in 5.2 and hits 60 in 2nd gear. Stock 6.0 Pontiac GTO for comparison is 5.4. Quarter mile: Mustang 13.9, Pontiac 13.9. GT500 has 6 speed box so is very unlikely to hit 60 in 1st.
Autocar figures for the 5.7 VXR were 5.3
Score so far: 0

Dan_S V8 said:

I don't know what Tom Ford was going on about last night about the VXR being able to do 75mph in first, that's complete rubbish!

I don't know. It sounds wrong but I don't know. Certainly on my supercharged Mustang, 1st gear is pretty much redundant.

Dan_S V8 said:

We had an 04 CV8 which has the same gearing and I think you changed to second at 45, third at 75 and fourth at a 100... 5th goes all the way to 155mph and then there is 6th which is geared until 236mph if you've got the power to get there!

Which you haven't and my guess is that 5th and 6th are overdrives like most GM boxes. Stock Mustang 39/65/99/130/143mph (latter at 4500rpm based on it being an overdrive ratio and this thing called aerodynamics)

Dan_S V8 said:

I also went for a ride in a VXR500 with all the bits and it is RAPID! It actually pulls harder after 100mph lol!

Also there is a VXR600 upgrade following shortly

No doubting it is very very rapid but you have no experience of the GT500 to compare it to. Your first assertion might apply to the last generation 2v Mustang but not to the 3v Mustang which revs to 6000rpm with extreme gusto where it produces it's 300bhp.

[JenkinsComp]

LuS1fer said:

The EVO PCOTY test placed the Roush 420RE second in it's handling category behind the M3 CS and above the 350Z. The GT500 has a weight problem in the nose due to the cast iron engine which must surely dictate it's road manners. The Roush uses better dampers, lower springs and bigger roll bars in the same way the VXR uses HSV parts instead of Holden parts and it's a matter of suspension control and weight distribution.

It was at the expense of acceleration though as the car struggled to put it's power down in a straight line and set some pretty unimpressive numbers at the test I was at with EVO this year (Fast Club). My old Camaro would have seen that off no problem!

The GT500 is for drag racing though, Ford canvassed alot of their drag race fans when they were designing the new model and definately took them into account as much as listening to their accountants when they decided to go with the live axle. It's what people wanted as it is easier to upgrade to a reliable axle that can take the big power that engine is capable of.

With my imaginary muscle car budget I'd buy an old 5.7 LS1 Monaro drop in a crate LS7 from Katech and make a modern ZL1...

[Dan_S V8]

Actually only 6th is an overdrive and yes we did max 5th on several occasions on private roads... and it was still pulling hard That was also only with circa 430hp....

[Dan_S V8]

And there are stock 6.0l pontiac GTO's posting low 13's to high 12 second 1/4 miles in the USA, the figures you have seem more akin to an 04 (5.7l) GTO...

[LuS1fer]

Dan_S V8 said:

And there are stock 6.0l pontiac GTO's posting low 13's to high 12 second 1/4 miles in the USA, the figures you have seem more akin to an 04 (5.7l) GTO...

I was going on published road tests and you're right, those were the figures for the 350hp 2004 GTO. The figure for the 2005 GTO 60 in 5.0 and the quarter in 13.5.The 13.9 time for the Mustang was in 91 degree heat, 35% humidity and 350ft elevation. One thread on Stangnet today has a 13.4 from a stocker - but without the heat, humidity and elevation that varies considerably in the US, the figures are difficult to compare. I'd be sceptical that a stock 400hp GTO could run a 12 carrying that much weight when the figures for the much lighter C6 are 4.5/12.8. However that wasn't the point. The point was to correct the impression you gave that the 3v Mustang engine is a unit that runs out of steam. In real terms, it represents a huge leap over the old Mustang 2v unit in the same way the LS1 was a huge leap over the L98 and LT1, both of which ran out of steam at the top end. Some of the private track times from the US have to be taken circumspectly as many use drag radials but maybe they're better drivers because one stock C5 Z06 was running 11's. The magazine tests use the tyres they come fitted with so are "possibly" more representative. I've had a Camaro Z28, I've had a Z06, the Vortech blown Mustang unit would crucify the LS1 in stock form (obviously) and certainly equal or run the lighter 405hp C5 Z06 very close.

I don't know about the GT500. I know it runs the quarter in the road test at 12.9 which wasn't as fast as some were expecting it to run. I know it's as heavy as a GTO and has 100hp more and is as quick as the much lighter Corvette C6. It's a shame that the road tests here don't tend to publish the quarter mile figures.

I'm hoping that TG pit the two round the track. It should be pretty close. All I know is that it's a great day when the relevant supporting factions can come on an internet forum and pour scorn on each other's "mere" 500hp. LOL.

Edited by LuS1fer on Tuesday 31st October 23:02

[pwig]

Nicholas Blair said:

Why can't they leave the 'Holden' badge on

Why does it matter?

[LuS1fer]

JenkinsComp said:

LuS1fer said:

The EVO PCOTY test placed the Roush 420RE second in it's handling category

It was at the expense of acceleration though as the car struggled to put it's power down in a straight line and set some pretty unimpressive numbers at the test I was at with EVO this year (Fast Club). My old Camaro would have seen that off no problem!

I got the general impression from Roush that they didn't really know how to set the car up. For example, I queried whether the camber would need to be reset and all I got back was a general observation that the tyres weren't wearing unevenly. I also know that Roush don't list rear control arm brackets to compensate for the lowering so, if mine is anything to go by (until I get the BMR brackets), my guess is that their rear control arms will point up not down.

[JenkinsComp]

LuS1fer said:

I got the general impression from Roush that they didn't really know how to set the car up. For example, I queried whether the camber would need to be reset and all I got back was a general observation that the tyres weren't wearing unevenly.

[Dantxd]

First up, great report guys.

I reckon that we're talking about things that are gonna give a £60k (iirc) M5 a run here? Especially in a straight line...

I'd have the VXR - but I wouldn't be upset to own the 'stang. Such a shame it can't be had in RHD though. If there was an official UK version, with RHD and UK spec suspension, then it'd be a much harder choice IMHO - more of a "Flip a coin, I don't care just give me one ". I certainly wouldn't pay the extra for an M5 over either of them - a car is for driving not for computing

Zektor - your mustang is just awesome. Well played.

Dan

Edited by Dantxd on Wednesday 1st November 09:05

[scoobiewrx]

Well...i've just heard about a 450bhp Ariel Atom so as much as you can't compare that in any way shape or form to either of these two monsters in all honesty......i think i'll take the Atom and have my face ripped off!!

[4WD]

The atom probably only produces 190, with the torque of a hedge strimmer. Look at the ariel forums and see the owners comments on claimed factory power. Makes tvr's claims look accurate

[scoobiewrx]

4WD said:

The atom probably only produces 190, with the torque of a hedge strimmer. Look at the ariel forums and see the owners comments on claimed factory power. Makes tvr's claims look accurate

This one is for sale and is a specially fettled motor. They reckon they can prove it with all the dyno charts etc...so if it is true, that is one awesome Atom.

Sorry to Digress

Edited by scoobiewrx on Wednesday 1st November 12:36

[LuS1fer]

scoobiewrx said:

4WD said:

The atom probably only produces 190, with the torque of a hedge strimmer. Look at the ariel forums and see the owners comments on claimed factory power. Makes tvr's claims look accurate

This one is for sale and is a specially fettled motor. They reckon they can prove it with all the dyno charts etc...so if it is true, that is one awesome Atom.

Sorry to Digress

One to smell the seat of before buying then