'Organised' cycle racing on the roads ...

[zakelwe]

coupeboy said:

zakelwe said:

I'm sorry but cyclists pay no road tax.No publicly funded UK A or B road was ever built specifically for cyclists. They therefore have no rights whatsoever and are there at the generosity of the road tax paying public,

Single file and then pull over onto the side if obstructing a road tax paying vehicle.

End of story. How has this got to 20 pages?

Regards

Andy

Cyclist are not some sort of sub-species who just exist to cycle around and annoy the general public

Where did I say that? I'm just talking about free and "premimum" road users here.

When we all get taxed per mile travelled due to the evil Gordon Brown I bet you think you should be exempt from that too! What you are saying is that you want to enjoy the facilities but are not prepared to pay, even if it inconveniences the people who do pay.

Like I said above, there are miles and miles of offroad cycle tracks in the UK as well, which I use. Why can't you use them ?

Regards

Andy

[carbonjunkie]

zakelwe said:

coupeboy said:

zakelwe said:

I'm sorry but cyclists pay no road tax.No publicly funded UK A or B road was ever built specifically for cyclists. They therefore have no rights whatsoever and are there at the generosity of the road tax paying public,

Single file and then pull over onto the side if obstructing a road tax paying vehicle.

End of story. How has this got to 20 pages?

Regards

Andy

Cyclist are not some sort of sub-species who just exist to cycle around and annoy the general public

Where did I say that? I'm just talking about free and "premimum" road users here.

When we all get taxed per mile travelled due to the evil Gordon Brown I bet you think you should be exempt from that too! What you are saying is that you want to enjoy the facilities but are not prepared to pay, even if it inconveniences the people who do pay.

Like I said above, there are miles and miles of offroad cycle tracks in the UK as well, which I use. Why can't you use them ?

Regards

Andy

Ok, tell you what, we'll pay the same as any vehicle which emits less than 120g of CO2 per mile.

Next.

[zakelwe]

carbonjunkie said:

zakelwe said:

carbonjunkie said:

zakelwe said:

I'm sorry but cyclists pay no road tax.No publicly funded UK A or B road was ever built specifically for cyclists. They therefore have no rights whatsoever and are there at the generosity of the road tax paying public,

Single file and then pull over onto the side if obstructing a road tax paying vehicle.

End of story. How has this got to 20 pages?

Regards

Andy

Oh fk off. what are you, 12 years old? grow up and grow a sodding brain you moron.

No I'm 41, own my own bike and do miles and miles of offroad cycling.

Obviously I have a valid point you can't answer apart from insults. Perhaps in the past you should have worn a helmet during some of your many falls it seems...

Grow up.

Andy

No, you do not have a valid point, it's just that this argument has been proven to be bks so many times on here that i can't be bothered to go into it again.

Please link to where the issues I raised have been "proven". I'm more than happy to change my point of view.

Regards

Andy

[carbonjunkie]

zakelwe said:

carbonjunkie said:

zakelwe said:

carbonjunkie said:

zakelwe said:

I'm sorry but cyclists pay no road tax.No publicly funded UK A or B road was ever built specifically for cyclists. They therefore have no rights whatsoever and are there at the generosity of the road tax paying public,

Single file and then pull over onto the side if obstructing a road tax paying vehicle.

End of story. How has this got to 20 pages?

Regards

Andy

Oh fk off. what are you, 12 years old? grow up and grow a sodding brain you moron.

No I'm 41, own my own bike and do miles and miles of offroad cycling.

Obviously I have a valid point you can't answer apart from insults. Perhaps in the past you should have worn a helmet during some of your many falls it seems...

Grow up.

Andy

No, you do not have a valid point, it's just that this argument has been proven to be bks so many times on here that i can't be bothered to go into it again.

Please link to where the issues I raised have been "proven". I'm more than happy to change my point of view.

Regards

Andy

My post above will do. Frankly, if you can't see the gaping holes in your argument, insulting my intelligence is just laughable.

[zakelwe]

carbonjunkie said:

Ok, tell you what, we'll pay the same as any vehicle which emits less than 120g of CO2 per mile.

Next.

Sorry the VED bands don't work that way.

Regards

Andy

[interloper]

zakelwe said:

Hey Carbonjunkie, lets look at it the other way, how about bicyclists paying road tax? Say £100 per year to join the other road users, how would you feel about that?

Seems only fair.

Regards

Andy

Why? Considering VED is based on BS co2 rates and some small and pointless cars can pay as little as £30 a year (the G whizz, plug in machine of death is actually free) why should a cyclist pay anything?

Also as has been previously stated most cyclist are car owners, ergo they are paying VED allready and when they are on a bike instead of the car they take up less precious road space.

Another point VED does not fund the road net work (no more so than any other indirect tax). Your council tax has a more of a direct bearing of the roads local to you.

This idea that there is some kind of hierarchy amongst road users, geared towards those who pay the most VED is utter drivel.

[zakelwe]

carbonjunkie said:

My post above will do.

No you posted that it had been proven before that post, so please show those posts that show it has been proven as you said.

Thanks

Andy

[outnumbered]

Those bloody car drivers. I was riding my bike the other day and was cut up by some idiot. Why don't they look where they're going ?

[outnumbered]

Those bloody cyclists. I was driving my car the other day and some idiot got in my way. Why don't they look where they're going ?

[coupeboy]

zakelwe said:

coupeboy said:

zakelwe said:

I'm sorry but cyclists pay no road tax.No publicly funded UK A or B road was ever built specifically for cyclists. They therefore have no rights whatsoever and are there at the generosity of the road tax paying public,

Single file and then pull over onto the side if obstructing a road tax paying vehicle.

End of story. How has this got to 20 pages?

Regards

Andy

Cyclist are not some sort of sub-species who just exist to cycle around and annoy the general public

Where did I say that? I'm just talking about free and "premimum" road users here.

When we all get taxed per mile travelled due to the evil Gordon Brown I bet you think you should be exempt from that too! What you are saying is that you want to enjoy the facilities but are not prepared to pay, even if it inconveniences the people who do pay.

Like I said above, there are miles and miles of offroad cycle tracks in the UK as well, which I use. Why can't you use them ?

Regards

Andy

You don't say that, I was just making a statement.

You pay for the privilage of using a car on the roads as I do. There is nothing stopping you from buying a bicycle and using the roads without the expense of a car.

Anyway you're way OT, this thread is supposed to be about road racing on busy A roads.

[carbonjunkie]

zakelwe said:

carbonjunkie said:

Ok, tell you what, we'll pay the same as any vehicle which emits less than 120g of CO2 per mile.

Next.

Sorry the VED bands don't work that way.

Regards

Andy

Ok - the key points

1) the roads weren't built for cars either
2)there is no such thing as a 'premium' road user
3) I am paying VED, on the 2 cars sat in my drive, not holding you up in that traffic jam you're sat in that i'm riding past. be grateful.
3)so in a county of growing obesity, you want to prevent children riding to school. good one.
4)I do ride off road, at least 30% of the time i'm on a bike. that doesn't get me to work though.
4)plenty of cars don't pay VED either, they have just as much right to be on the road as you
5) You have just as much right to ride on the road as me. if you don't choose to exercise that right, that's your problem, not mine. lobby your MP if you don't like it
6)before you mention this as well, i am insured, as is everyone in any kind of bike race, it's a requirement.
7) VED doesn't pay for the roads. the council tax i pay does that.

Now can we please close this bloody thread, the last thing this place needs is yet another delusional, ill informed rant about how cyclist don't pay road tax.

Edited by carbonjunkie on Saturday 28th March 12:28

[outnumbered]

Those bloody car drivers and cyclists. I was riding my motorbike the other day and some idiot nearly pulled out on me, then some other idiots got in my way. Why don't they look where they're going ?

FFS folks, just give up the discussion, it comes up every feckin week, and it's been well proven that hardly anyone is capable of an adult perspective on the matter.

[zakelwe]

interloper said:

Why? Considering VED is based on BS co2 rates

Why did I only pay £180 for my 10 year old 4.3 litre V8 Mercedes then? Because there are always exceptions. And another exception would be the cyclist because they don't generate any wealth when cycling, unlike cars and other vehicles. Like you said it's a revenue generating issue and cyclists use that service without paying.

Regards

Andy

Edited by zakelwe on Saturday 28th March 12:28

[carbonjunkie]

zakelwe said:

interloper said:

Why? Considering VED is based on BS co2 rates

Why did I only pay £180 for my 10 year old 4.3 litre V8 Mercedes then? Because there are always exceptions. And another exception would be the cyclist because they don't generate any wealth when cycling, unlike cars and other vehicles. Like you said it's a revenue generating issue and cyclists use that service without paying.

Regards

Andy

Edited by zakelwe on Saturday 28th March 12:28

So when i ride to work, at my own business, with a turnover of about £450,000 lat year, and i pay tax of in the region of 50k in total, I'm not generating income? How much more tax do you pay than me?

Edited by carbonjunkie on Saturday 28th March 12:31

[zakelwe]

Ok, in summary, stick to velodromes or offroad. You can use either of those to do racing. I can't use either to get to work.

And on that bombshell, and having wrapped up the argument once and for all ...

Have a very nice weekend, obviously not on the computer but out pumping those pedals

Andy

[carbonjunkie]

Hmmm. What's this hook doing in my mouth?

[interloper]

zakelwe said:

interloper said:

Why? Considering VED is based on BS co2 rates

Why did I only pay £180 for my 10 year old 4.3 litre V8 Mercedes then? Because there are always exceptions. And another exception would be the cyclist because they don't generate any wealth when cycling, unlike cars and other vehicles. Like you said it's a revenue generating issue and cyclists use that service without paying.

Regards

Andy

Edited by zakelwe on Saturday 28th March 12:28

Actually I'm in the same boat, paying the old rates because I have a pre 2001 car (a get out of my fvcking way BMW 5 series). They only do this because they don't have official CO2 measurements for these vehicles. My bicycle on the other hand is about 3 years old so would definitely fall into the modern VED groupings so I still win the argument!

[NDA]

carbonjunkie said:

NDA said:

new in today said:

As mentioned earlier if during a cycle road race the rules were that you had to make allowances for selfish road users who won't make any allowances for you then racing would be absolutely pointless.

The winner of road races where manners to other road users had to be observed would be the ones who simply wouldn't make the concession while the polite ones lost every race.

I am sorry this thread has unearthed some really selfish people but thankfully your input to this thread wont prevent cycle racing continuing and long may it annoy you.

It strikes me reading through these pages that the cyclists don't consider other road users - indeed they consider car drivers to be selfish. As the post above suggests. Other cyclists have spoken about 'kicking in door panels' - is that a representative view from cyclists? I hope not.

The Highway Code is a mystery to most of the racing groups I see, however the car driver is the one having to take full responsibility for what happens meanwhile the cycle groups are content in the knowledge that their hobby frustrates other road users.

Never the twain shall meet.

try riding a bike for a few thousand miles, you will quickly find out why some cyclists feel that car drivers are, in a minority, selfish. But then you know that, because you meet them in your car too.

And quit with the 'cyclist are so inconvenient' crap. what do you spend more time looking at, the arse of a cyclist or the rear lights of another car?

Golly! You're quite chippy aren't you?! I'm merely pointing out that cyclists in road races appear to feel they have the right to ignore the rules of the road along with other road users in the pursuit of their hobby. Your position simply strengthens my view.

[Balmoral Green]

carbonjunkie said:

Balmoral Green, you wanted to know why cyclists think some drivers are selfish? see above.

The best bit is, there is no such thing as road tax, it was scrapped in 1961. VED has nothing to do with the roads. The roads are the responsibility of the local authority and are paid for by the Council tax.

So if you have a bike, and pay Council tax, the road is yours. If you have a car, but don't pay Council tax, then get off the cyclists road!

[Parrot of Doom]

Balmoral Green said:

So if you have a bike, and pay Council tax, the road is yours. If you have a car, but don't pay Council tax, then get off the cyclists road!

And the best bit is, cyclists don't need a licence to use the roads, having an inherent right to do so. Which isn't the case for motorists