RE: Tell me I'm wrong: BMW M5

[Amirhussain]

Pugland53 said:

Session8 said:

RoverP6B said:

Not necessarily - E39 M5s are getting temptingly cheap... good E34s are pricier now!


SMG - I haven't driven one, but asked at both my local dealership and my trusty BMW specialist independent and have been thoroughly warned off it.

That's the first thing my BMW dealership did too, don't buy this Sir they are prone to failure... Seriously RoverPB that complete post removed any credibility of your opinion on this topic.

It's the same as most of his other posts, all third hand information, no actual personal experience, that's why I can't take him seriously.

And according to RoverP6B on the BMW M235i thread
'Real petrolheads only care about greatness' Honestly have you ever ever heard of such crap before in your life?

If 'real' petrolheads only care about greatness, then we'd all be driving Lamborghini Miura's & Sierra RS500's ( )

[SidewaysSi]

Amirhussain said:

Pugland53 said:

Session8 said:

RoverP6B said:

Not necessarily - E39 M5s are getting temptingly cheap... good E34s are pricier now!


SMG - I haven't driven one, but asked at both my local dealership and my trusty BMW specialist independent and have been thoroughly warned off it.

That's the first thing my BMW dealership did too, don't buy this Sir they are prone to failure... Seriously RoverPB that complete post removed any credibility of your opinion on this topic.

It's the same as most of his other posts, all third hand information, no actual personal experience, that's why I can't take him seriously.

And according to RoverP6B on the BMW M235i thread
'Real petrolheads only care about greatness' Honestly have you ever ever heard of such crap before in your life?

If 'real' petrolheads only care about greatness, then we'd all be driving Lamborghini Miura's & Sierra RS500's ( )

Actually I can see his point entirely. I for instance only want the best of the best when I purchase a car. It has to be single minded and as focussed as possible at its designated job, given the budget I have. For instance, I drive a Caterham as for the money, it was the hardest, most pure driving experience I could get. Same for my Honda.

I simply don't want a car that is average across the board but one which is brilliant at the relatively few things it was designed to do. Likewise, a W124 is arguably the best made car of all time and I would love one simply for that reason. And yes, I am an obsessive petrolhead

[Wills2]

Zod said:

Interestingly, I found my V12V to be better damped for that and other nearby roads than the R8 Spyder (with standard suspension) that I took there in November.

A lovely road made in better in a V12V I'm sure!

[Amirhussain]

RoverP6B said:

E65Ross said:

Maybe we should stick to 100bhp. It'll still do license losing speeds and the only difference is it doesn't pin you in your seat as much.

It'll take a hell of a long time to get there, that's the thing. I can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless.

So if a guy out there decides to buy a F10 M5, he'd be considered a show off, and bought the car basically to willy wave and whats the point of 550 bhp,its pointless, but if he buys a 530i with 272 bhp, people would just say that his just a boring company rep that only bought his car because of the badge and that it makes him feel mighty on the motorway and when its parked on his drive.

But if he went and bought a Caterham, people would be ferociously busting their nuts and arse licking.

[Zod]

Wills2 said:

Zod said:

Interestingly, I found my V12V to be better damped for that and other nearby roads than the R8 Spyder (with standard suspension) that I took there in November.

A lovely road made in better in a V12V I'm sure!

Oh yes!

(I did park up by the Viaduct and walk up to the top of Whertnside by the way - straight up, not using he path, as I first did thirty years ago.)

[E65Ross]

Amirhussain said:

RoverP6B said:

E65Ross said:

Maybe we should stick to 100bhp. It'll still do license losing speeds and the only difference is it doesn't pin you in your seat as much.

It'll take a hell of a long time to get there, that's the thing. I can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless.

So if a guy out there decides to buy a F10 M5, he'd be considered a show off, and bought the car basically to willy wave and whats the point of 550 bhp,its pointless, but if he buys a 530i with 272 bhp, people would just say that his just a boring company rep that only bought his car because of the badge and that it makes him feel mighty on the motorway and when its parked on his drive.

But if he went and bought a Caterham, people would be ferociously busting their nuts and arse licking.

What gets me is he doesn't seem to grasp that the power thing is a personal preference; yet he says he "can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless"

Yet struggles to realise that a lot of people would find 300bhp "really very, deeply pointless".

Anyone, he hasn't driven a car with that much power so I'll stop talking about this now because his comments are based on nothing other than what some people may have told him and what he thinks these cars will be like, and he refuses to listen to others who have driven these types of cars.

[Wills2]

Zod said:

Oh yes!

(I did park up by the Viaduct and walk up to the top of Whertnside by the way - straight up, not using he path, as I first did thirty years ago.)

I remember cycling the 3 peaks when I was lad, I say cycle what I mean is carry it whilst walking!

[SidewaysSi]

E65Ross said:

Amirhussain said:

RoverP6B said:

E65Ross said:

Maybe we should stick to 100bhp. It'll still do license losing speeds and the only difference is it doesn't pin you in your seat as much.

It'll take a hell of a long time to get there, that's the thing. I can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless.

So if a guy out there decides to buy a F10 M5, he'd be considered a show off, and bought the car basically to willy wave and whats the point of 550 bhp,its pointless, but if he buys a 530i with 272 bhp, people would just say that his just a boring company rep that only bought his car because of the badge and that it makes him feel mighty on the motorway and when its parked on his drive.

But if he went and bought a Caterham, people would be ferociously busting their nuts and arse licking.

What gets me is he doesn't seem to grasp that the power thing is a personal preference; yet he says he "can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless"

Yet struggles to realise that a lot of people would find 300bhp "really very, deeply pointless".

Anyone, he hasn't driven a car with that much power so I'll stop talking about this now because his comments are based on nothing other than what some people may have told him and what he thinks these cars will be like, and he refuses to listen to others who have driven these types of cars.

I think this has been done to death now. Some like cars that are quick in a straight line with the latest tech and comforts whilst others like simpler, arguably purer but slower cars. The end.

[Amirhussain]

SidewaysSi said:

E65Ross said:

Amirhussain said:

RoverP6B said:

E65Ross said:

Maybe we should stick to 100bhp. It'll still do license losing speeds and the only difference is it doesn't pin you in your seat as much.

It'll take a hell of a long time to get there, that's the thing. I can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless.

So if a guy out there decides to buy a F10 M5, he'd be considered a show off, and bought the car basically to willy wave and whats the point of 550 bhp,its pointless, but if he buys a 530i with 272 bhp, people would just say that his just a boring company rep that only bought his car because of the badge and that it makes him feel mighty on the motorway and when its parked on his drive.

But if he went and bought a Caterham, people would be ferociously busting their nuts and arse licking.

What gets me is he doesn't seem to grasp that the power thing is a personal preference; yet he says he "can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless"

Yet struggles to realise that a lot of people would find 300bhp "really very, deeply pointless".

Anyone, he hasn't driven a car with that much power so I'll stop talking about this now because his comments are based on nothing other than what some people may have told him and what he thinks these cars will be like, and he refuses to listen to others who have driven these types of cars.

I think this has been done to death now. Some like cars that are quick in a straight line with the latest tech and comforts whilst others like simpler, arguably purer but slower cars. The end.

The F10 M5 isn't just quick in a straight line, it can also destroy bends, as I've previously written, it went around the ring 21 seconds quicker than the E39.

I'll write it again, just so you don't forget;

Ring time for the E39: 8:16
Ring time for the F10 7.55

So please don't describe the F10 M5 as 'cars that are quick in a straight line'.

[RoverP6B]

Session8 said:

That's the first thing my BMW dealership did too, don't buy this Sir they are prone to failure... Seriously RoverPB that complete post removed any credibility of your opinion on this topic.

This was after the arrival of the E90 series and I was contemplating a used one.

Amirhussain said:

If 'real' petrolheads only care about greatness, then we'd all be driving Lamborghini Miura's & Sierra RS500's

If a guy out there decides to buy a F10 M5, he'd be considered a show off, and bought the car basically to willy wave and whats the point of 550 bhp,its pointless, but if he buys a 530i with 272 bhp, people would just say that his just a boring company rep that only bought his car because of the badge and that it makes him feel mighty on the motorway and when its parked on his drive.

Greatness comes in many forms and at many price levels. Even apparently quite mundane machinery can be great, and there have equally been some conspicuously poor pieces of exotica. Incidentally, there is no need for apostrophes in Miuras or RS500s - apostrophes are used in the possessive case, not for plurals. Conversely, you DO need an apostrophe in "its pointless". Personally, while I am not a fan of the F10/11 5er in general, I would have more respect for someone who bought a 530i SE than an M5. The more cash-strapped poser will invariably be seen in a four-cylinder M Sport - or, more likely, a 2.0 TDI S-line Audi with DSG.

[Amirhussain]

^^^^^

[RobM77]

RoverP6B said:

Greatness comes in many forms and at many price levels. Even apparently quite mundane machinery can be great, and there have equally been some conspicuously poor pieces of exotica. Incidentally, there is no need for apostrophes in Miuras or RS500s - apostrophes are used in the possessive case, not for plurals. Conversely, you DO need an apostrophe in "its pointless". Personally, while I am not a fan of the F10/11 5er in general, I would have more respect for someone who bought a 530i SE than an M5. The more cash-strapped poser will invariably be seen in a four-cylinder M Sport - or, more likely, a 2.0 TDI S-line Audi with DSG.

So someone who loves handling but isn't that interested in straight line speed is automatically a poser?! I prefer smaller BMs than the 5 myself, but I've had a 328i, 325i, 330ci and a Z4 Coupé and now drive a 320d, which I actually prefer to either of my last two in terms of driving pleasure (I'm convinced BMW spend longer setting up the models they sell in greater numbers, it just drives so much better than my 330i or Z4C ever did - sure I miss the engine, but handling's my main interest). It's an unusual opinion, especially on Pistonheads, but I know a couple of other car nuts who've done exactly the same thing as me for the same reasons; we're all different. Best current BMW I've driven lately? A 4 cyl M Sport actually!

[SidewaysSi]

Amirhussain said:

SidewaysSi said:

E65Ross said:

Amirhussain said:

RoverP6B said:

E65Ross said:

Maybe we should stick to 100bhp. It'll still do license losing speeds and the only difference is it doesn't pin you in your seat as much.

It'll take a hell of a long time to get there, that's the thing. I can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless.

So if a guy out there decides to buy a F10 M5, he'd be considered a show off, and bought the car basically to willy wave and whats the point of 550 bhp,its pointless, but if he buys a 530i with 272 bhp, people would just say that his just a boring company rep that only bought his car because of the badge and that it makes him feel mighty on the motorway and when its parked on his drive.

But if he went and bought a Caterham, people would be ferociously busting their nuts and arse licking.

What gets me is he doesn't seem to grasp that the power thing is a personal preference; yet he says he "can accept 300, maybe even 400hp. The far side of 550hp, however, really is very, deeply pointless"

Yet struggles to realise that a lot of people would find 300bhp "really very, deeply pointless".

Anyone, he hasn't driven a car with that much power so I'll stop talking about this now because his comments are based on nothing other than what some people may have told him and what he thinks these cars will be like, and he refuses to listen to others who have driven these types of cars.

I think this has been done to death now. Some like cars that are quick in a straight line with the latest tech and comforts whilst others like simpler, arguably purer but slower cars. The end.

The F10 M5 isn't just quick in a straight line, it can also destroy bends, as I've previously written, it went around the ring 21 seconds quicker than the E39.

I'll write it again, just so you don't forget;

Ring time for the E39: 8:16
Ring time for the F10 7.55

So please don't describe the F10 M5 as 'cars that are quick in a straight line'.

Wrong choice of words on my part, however I am not getting into this again. Yes, the M5 is quick in a straight line and yes, it is fast round bends (no doubt due to the massive tyres and not insignificant tech). And yes, it will destroy an E39 around the 'Ring.

However, it does not have the feeling of agility as an older M5. Nor does it have the feel and driver involvement. Hence my comment about slower and purer older cars.

If I had the choice between a new F10 M5 and an excellent E28 M5 and could have the keys to one for a day on UK roads, I would go for the older car in an instant.

So Amir, do you have any experience of M5s, old or new?

And thankyou for restating those times, I almost forgot.

[161BMW]

I didn't realise the E39 M5 is quicker than the E46 M3 around Nurburgring ?

The E39, E60, F10 M5s are all more distinctive than their 5 series brothers
I wouldn't say they are show off cars. More for the high flying City exec who wants 911 performance and 4 seats
Or the petrol head with a family
The E28, E34 much less so
550bhp is not pointless but fun
I don't think there has ever been a bad M5

[RoverP6B]

RobM77 said:

So someone who loves handling but isn't that interested in straight line speed is automatically a poser?! I prefer smaller BMs than the 5 myself, but I've had a 328i, 325i, 330ci and a Z4 Coupé and now drive a 320d, which I actually prefer to either of my last two in terms of driving pleasure (I'm convinced BMW spend longer setting up the models they sell in greater numbers, it just drives so much better than my 330i or Z4C ever did - sure I miss the engine, but handling's my main interest). It's an unusual opinion, especially on Pistonheads, but I know a couple of other car nuts who've done exactly the same thing as me for the same reasons; we're all different. Best current BMW I've driven lately? A 4 cyl M Sport actually!

No, that is the exact opposite of what I've been saying all week. I've driven a couple of newish four-cylinder diesel BMWs (a 60-reg F11 520d and a 59-reg E90 320d, both autos, 8-speed in the F11, 6-speed in the E90) and they were horrid, laggy, noisy, coarse, terrible-riding, understeering dogs - nothing like as sweet as the 6cyl petrol ones (or indeed my 318iTs, E30 and E46 respectively). They were utterly impossible to drive smoothly except at constant revs on dual-carriageways as all the torque arrives in one lump - press accelerator, wait, ah, here comes the turbo, BANG, then it's all over and you or the computer are reaching for and engaging another gear, during which time you've come off-boost again... they were both absolute nightmares (the E90 was worse than the F11 in this regard due to having fewer and more widely-spaced gear ratios) and I was very pleased, after a month in the F11 and a week in the E90, to get my E39 with its straight-six petrol engine back! I'd have found a manual 'box nothing but a frustration in those diesels, whereas I wouldn't be without mine in the E39.

Also, I do rather object to the way that Amir Hussain seems unable to make any argument, only launch personal attacks. I would like to see some more proactive moderation of this forum to minimise such unworthy behaviour. I'm not calling for anyone to be banhammered instantly, lest there be doubt - just some more civility.

Incidentally, I do find it interesting that it took the F10 M5 to better (by only four seconds, or a whisker over 0.8%) the time set several years before by, of all things, a Cadillac CTS - and that with the speed handicap of a manual gearbox! If I was in the mood for a 550bhp saloon, it'd be the Cadillac every time. What's more, it comes as an estate...

Edited by RoverP6B on Tuesday 28th January 23:18

[Amirhussain]

161BMW said:

I didn't realise the E39 M5 is quicker than the E46 M3 around Nurburgring ?

E46 ring time is 8:22

E46 CSL however is 7:50!

[SidewaysSi]

Amirhussain said:

161BMW said:

I didn't realise the E39 M5 is quicker than the E46 M3 around Nurburgring ?

E46 ring time is 8:22

E46 CSL however is 7:50!

So what do you drive out of interest?

[braddo]

[quote=161BMW
Or the petrol head with a family
The E28, E34 much less so

[/quote]

??????
They were the quintessential cars of their time for the petrolhead with a family.

[161BMW]

braddo said:

??????
They were the quintessential cars of their time for the petrolhead with a family.

Yes I know that
I mean the E28, E34 had less to differentiate themselves visually from their less powerful brothers (unlike E39, E60, F10)
They were all quick for their day
I should have worded better

[RoverP6B]

That was the joy of performance BMWs of old. Only BMW geeks knew they weren't 3/518is. Now, any fool can spot an M5 from a 520d SE, as conspicuously as they could that mid-W12-engined prototype "Golf" featured on TG a few years ago from an ordinary 1.4TFSI Mk5.