RE: Alfa Romeo 4C spied testing

[OlberJ]

200 hp and 200 ftlb of torque in a mid engined 1 tonne car with a V6 to listen to was huge fun.

Similar 2.0Turbos in the same cars were fun for a while but didn't have much depth of character.

The thought of 250bhp, soundtrack that leaves you tingling and weight under a tonne is simply fan feckin tastic. It's a recipe that can't fail to deliver.

Hope this doesn't turn out the same but it's just lacking in that 1 vital department unless they can pull off the impossible with that engine.

[YsterSwart]

Official AR press statement clearly states its the new allu block...

It weighs 25kgs less than Giulietta QV block... The intake and exhaust outlets have been changed too for this engine..

So major upgrades to the engine compared to the QV block..

The new 'race' mode in the DNA system some suggest will disable all or most of the electronic aids..

Big issue with current Alfas is the fact that one cannot get the power down as the mommy kicks in delaying power..

[angry jock]

Guvernator said:

angry jock said:

You have said that a couple of times that it is essentially the same running gear.
It's not at all. It shares the same CC and that is it. The DNA system is different as well.

I was under the impression that it was using the same or very similar block to the one found in the QV. There are unsubstantiated rumours that the 4C might be using a newer (but still based on the existing QV) alloy block but this hasn't been confirmed either way yet. Do you have any different info?

Also DNA is an ECU\software program. I very much suspect different will mean it just has some different parameters and probably and extra sports\race mode programmed into it.

Ok so the DNA system although it has completely different parameters, a new ecu and race mode, has the same name.
The new 1750 has the same CC and is now a Multi-Air engine. So other than the different heads manifold design, pistons and ever other part of the internals it's the same.
I only worked for 4 years with ALFA, got drunk several times with a senior product man after driving round Balcocco and know some reasonably senior people at ALFA uk and have a very good friend at Maserati so I really wouldn't know very much at all!

[kambites]

angry jock said:

The new 1750 has the same CC and is now a Multi-Air engine. So other than the different heads manifold design, pistons and ever other part of the internals it's the same.

Different block as well isn't it? Aluminium vs steel for the old one?

[angry jock]

kambites said:

Different block as well isn't it? Aluminium vs steel for the old one?

[Stuart J]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Its Im afraid the way all cars are going, big engines love fuel, smaller ones need less when being driven gently, also smaller engines weigh less, OK there are exceptions but not in the mass produced sector. All improve emission targets & make cars theoretically cheaper to own ( until the turbo blows up ). Agreed you loose the sound track. Turbo cars can have a wide rev range if tuned properly, lag is also far less than it used to be.

[kambites]

The Busso was a rather heavy lump. As wonderful as it sounded, it wouldn't really have worked in this application even if they were still making it.

I don't think I'll ever come to like turbocharged engines in this sort of car, but I can't see normally aspirated engines lasting much longer in any car.

[Guvernator]

angry jock said:

Ok so the DNA system although it has completely different parameters, a new ecu and race mode, has the same name.
The new 1750 has the same CC and is now a Multi-Air engine. So other than the different heads manifold design, pistons and ever other part of the internals it's the same.
I only worked for 4 years with ALFA, got drunk several times with a senior product man after driving round Balcocco and know some reasonably senior people at ALFA uk and have a very good friend at Maserati so I really wouldn't know very much at all!

OK thanks, interesting info. The addition of multi-air should make it interesting. Do you know if they are doing anything about making this engine sound nicer?

The manifold and intake changes sound promising but current Alfa's are all far too quiet, even the "sporty ones", hopefully they'll make this sound as good as it looks. Yes a 4 pot is never going to sound as good as an NA V6 but it is possible to make them sound good.

Oh and Angry jock, no need to live up to your name. I understand you are a fan of this car\Alfa but no need to take every question as a personal insult. Also name dropping stopped impressing me about 20 years ago

[braddo]

Perhaps now that you'll (Guvernator) stop harping on about the Giulietta engine he won't feel the need to drop in some credentials.

[kambites]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I don't think that will last long - I'd imagine there will be a turbo in the 981 at some point during its life-cycle.

[Alex]

Turbo engines are popular because they are good at gaming emissions testing cycles. Real world emissions are not much better than similar output NA engines.

[kambites]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

What's wrong with the GM V6 they use in the Brera etc.?

[otolith]

kambites said:

I don't think that will last long - I'd imagine there will be a turbo in the 981 at some point during its life-cycle.

Porsche have been working for ages on a turbocharged flat 4 for the Boxster, Cayman and - if it ever happens - the sub-Boxster roadster. They have even said that although there are no plans at the moment, at some point in the future it could make it into the 911. We are currently a long way from that last option being acceptable to the market, but I think as we see four cylinder engines gradually oozing their way up the model hierarchy of luxury cars that day may well come. I wonder how many people realise all the current *28i BMWs are four pots?

[kambites]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Me neither, but the power figures are comparable to the numbers being bandied around for this.

[minimalist]

otolith said:

Porsche have been working for ages on a turbocharged flat 4 for the Boxster, Cayman and - if it ever happens - the sub-Boxster roadster. They have even said that although there are no plans at the moment, at some point in the future it could make it into the 911. We are currently a long way from that last option being acceptable to the market, but I think as we see four cylinder engines gradually oozing their way up the model hierarchy of luxury cars that day may well come. I wonder how many people realise all the current *28i BMWs are four pots?

I wonder if Porsche install a flat 4 in the 911, will they call it a 912?

[kambites]

minimalist said:

I wonder if Porsche install a flat 4 in the 911, will they call it a 912?

I doubt it because it probably wouldn't sell. I suspect the next generation (or possibly the one after that) 911 Carrera will just quietly drop a couple of cylinders.

[otolith]

I would expect that the ambitious weight target for this car would also rule out a V6.

[kambites]

otolith said:

I would expect that the ambitious weight target for this car would also rule out a V6.

Probably, but would it have been a better car if it weighed 100kg more and had a V6? I suspect the answer would be different for different people.

[Raitzi]

kambites said:

Probably, but would it have been a better car if it weighed 100kg more and had a V6? I suspect the answer would be different for different people.

Well 2.0 V6 could be cool and light if it was high tech and reved like a S2000.

[braddo]

kambites said:

otolith said:

I would expect that the ambitious weight target for this car would also rule out a V6.

Probably, but would it have been a better car if it weighed 100kg more and had a V6? I suspect the answer would be different for different people.

That would have placed the car directly in Porsche's crosshairs so would be a bad idea.

I think the 4C's emissions and economy for the amount of performance on offer are going to be quite a way ahead of anything else on the market. The 4-cyl Multiair is fundamental to that.

This car will be looked back on as the beginning of a new era where manufacturers get serious and radical with car size/weight in order drive down fleet emissions.