The "Sh*t Driving Caught On Cam" Thread Vol II

[Digby]

heebeegeetee said:

Krikkit said:

I can appreciate they might want a conversation - pack riding on a multi-carriageway road isn't an issue to me.

As a car driver would you have barrelled down that road at the same speed as the cyclists? I certainly wouldn't, and I'd also have moved well over to the left-hand side of the road while going past that totally blind entranceway.

In the case on video there would still have been an accident, but the cyclists are riding as if they're racing, rather than treating themselves as a bunch and riding defensively.

Eh? They're cycling and chatting and when they come to a dead halt they barely go 2 bike lengths. I doubt they're doing 20 mph.

So yes, I'd have gone down that road at least as quick as the bikes.

As I said before, when you're driving down a road you don't slow to a crawl or cross to the other side for every junction or entrance, so don't be so hypocritical.

We also could do with less of the 'blind junction'. Its not in any way difficult. In any given city centre every side road is the same due to parked cars. My entrance way at work is near totally blind both sides due to parked cars but I don't blunder out without stopping and I only ever proceed out extremely slowly, so I think we should give up with that hogwash.

Its a driver not looking where he's going, end of.

I don't think there has been a more obvious 'who is to blame?' clip on here.

That car driver should have inched forward, pushed their face against the windscreen, inched a little more etc.

Car driver 100% in the wrong. As suggested, there could have been an agricultural machine coming taking up all the road.

I think the clip demonstrates the typical quick glance "unlikely to be anything coming down here anyway" type of driver.

[Mr2Mike]

heebeegeetee said:

IIRC you're the chap who thinks that all of the evidence that proves cyclists are safer in greater numbers is wrong, even if common sense dictates it too.

I'm the chap that actually looked at the figures. There has been an increase in serious injures of cyclists almost every year for the past ten years, and an overall increase of around 56% since 2004. Would you care to explain how this fit in with the truly bizarre argument that more cyclists on the road improves safety?

heebeegeetee said:

On the topic of these cyclists we will have to agree to differ, because unlike you I probably go against the grain of the thinking of the average car driver.

By that I mean: No way do I have the sheer arrogance or selfishness that dictate that cyclists or other vulnerable road user should curtail their enjoyment of the roads just for me. The average car driver, especially in the UK, thinks the world revolves around him - but I don't. I try to figure out how the average, thick car driver operates and I try not to do the same. I find it keeps me out of the trouble that the masses gets into.

I can appreciate why a group of riders (or walkers) might want to ride/walk in a group and have a chat and enjoy themselves. I am not going to be counted amongst those that suggests they should keep to one side, keep out of the way, slow right down, tug forelocks and the rest of it. I also happen to think that this is uniquely British view, from some brief experiences I've had in the past on the continent when I've been cycling or jogging etc.

And this is where your thinking is more woolly than the average sheep. You seem to be suggesting that riders should put enjoying themselves way above any concept of personal safety, which is clearly ridiculous. They are vulnerable road users, so of course other traffic should take care, but they MUST also take some responsibility for their own safety. I'm guessing you have never heard of "defensive riding", a concept that applies to by push bikes and motorcycles?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Wednesday 20th July 19:03

[mantis84]

Pete317 said:

Marcellus said:

Europa1 said:

Some of the cyclists were on the right hand side of a road approaching a side turning on that side of the road. Car was pulling out of said side turning, which looks like it was pretty blind for anyone pulling out of the side turning. I can't agree with your assertion that it's 100% the car's fault.

Let';s get away from the "Cyclists are wrong" if we were to pretend the cyclists were a car and there was an accident who woudl be in the wrong... the car on the road or the one pulling out of a side road/drive?

Let's take it one step further and pretend the car was a cyclist. How many here would change their minds on who to blame?

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

[Mr2Mike]

mantis84 said:

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

I'm not sure many people do think this, most of the arguments are saying the cyclists didn't help themselves in this situation by bunching up across the width of the road. Just a tiny bit of common sense, and a smidge of self preservation could have either prevented the accident or limited to impact to a single bike.

Apparently it's more important for cyclists bunch up together so they can talk rather than position themselves to improve safety.

[Digby]

Mr2Mike said:

mantis84 said:

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

I'm not sure many people do think this, most of the arguments are saying the cyclists didn't help themselves in this situation by bunching up across the width of the road. Just a tiny bit of common sense, and a smidge of self preservation could have either prevented the accident or limited to impact to a single bike.

Apparently it's more important for cyclists bunch up together so they can talk rather than position themselves to improve safety.

In fairness, had they been riding in a single line and met that type of driver at any junction, they would have still been in trouble.

[Pete317]

mantis84 said:

Pete317 said:

Marcellus said:

Europa1 said:

Some of the cyclists were on the right hand side of a road approaching a side turning on that side of the road. Car was pulling out of said side turning, which looks like it was pretty blind for anyone pulling out of the side turning. I can't agree with your assertion that it's 100% the car's fault.

Let';s get away from the "Cyclists are wrong" if we were to pretend the cyclists were a car and there was an accident who woudl be in the wrong... the car on the road or the one pulling out of a side road/drive?

Let's take it one step further and pretend the car was a cyclist. How many here would change their minds on who to blame?

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

Do you really believe that's what I think?

I was just wondering if a cyclist had pulled out on a car the way that car pulled out on the cyclists, how many people would have put the blame on the car.

[Pete317]

Digby said:

Mr2Mike said:

mantis84 said:

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

I'm not sure many people do think this, most of the arguments are saying the cyclists didn't help themselves in this situation by bunching up across the width of the road. Just a tiny bit of common sense, and a smidge of self preservation could have either prevented the accident or limited to impact to a single bike.

Apparently it's more important for cyclists bunch up together so they can talk rather than position themselves to improve safety.

In fairness, had they been riding in a single line and met that type of driver at any junction, they would have still been in trouble.

Perhaps, but probably not all of them.

[Stickyfinger]

Pete317 said:

Digby said:

Mr2Mike said:

mantis84 said:

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

I'm not sure many people do think this, most of the arguments are saying the cyclists didn't help themselves in this situation by bunching up across the width of the road. Just a tiny bit of common sense, and a smidge of self preservation could have either prevented the accident or limited to impact to a single bike.

Apparently it's more important for cyclists bunch up together so they can talk rather than position themselves to improve safety.

In fairness, had they been riding in a single line and met that type of driver at any junction, they would have still been in trouble.

Perhaps, but probably not all of them.

And if correctly spaced so as to stop safely, just one.

[Digby]

Stickyfinger said:

Pete317 said:

Digby said:

Mr2Mike said:

mantis84 said:

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

I'm not sure many people do think this, most of the arguments are saying the cyclists didn't help themselves in this situation by bunching up across the width of the road. Just a tiny bit of common sense, and a smidge of self preservation could have either prevented the accident or limited to impact to a single bike.

Apparently it's more important for cyclists bunch up together so they can talk rather than position themselves to improve safety.

In fairness, had they been riding in a single line and met that type of driver at any junction, they would have still been in trouble.

Perhaps, but probably not all of them.

And if correctly spaced so as to stop safely, just one.

All of which is pretty irrelevant, though. The car driver didn't look. You can only ride or drive defensively to a certain extent; planning for drivers too lazy to look would simply mean never using such a road.

[xRIEx]

mantis84 said:

Pete317 said:

Marcellus said:

Europa1 said:

Some of the cyclists were on the right hand side of a road approaching a side turning on that side of the road. Car was pulling out of said side turning, which looks like it was pretty blind for anyone pulling out of the side turning. I can't agree with your assertion that it's 100% the car's fault.

Let';s get away from the "Cyclists are wrong" if we were to pretend the cyclists were a car and there was an accident who woudl be in the wrong... the car on the road or the one pulling out of a side road/drive?

Let's take it one step further and pretend the car was a cyclist. How many here would change their minds on who to blame?

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

I think both parties contributed to the incident occurring - cyclists not paying attention to approaching hazards and their own position, and the car driver coming out too far and too sharply.

For the driver to make a proper observation they would have had to stick their bonnet out in any case - there is about a metre (maybe more) between the end of the bonnet and the driver's eyes. Ideally, they would poke their bonnet out slightly and slowly inch forwards (as someone else posted, with their nose stuck against the windscreen) increasing their field of view and giving other road users the chance to see a car's bonnet nosing out of the junction.

From the looks of the video, the driver was making a turn manoeuvre with only the most cursory observation (if there even was one at all) rather than it being a clumsy attempt inching out of the junction. Ultimately I think both parties were complacent in using a road that (I'm guessing) is little used by cars, but the car driver was negligent in their manoeuvre (if nothing else, as another poster pointed out, traffic on the major road has priority).

[Impasse]

La priorité à droite.

[4x4Tyke]

Digby said:

I don't think there has been a more obvious 'who is to blame?' clip on here.

...

Car driver 100% in the wrong.

Which is why felt confident satirising it.

[Stickyfinger]

Digby said:

Stickyfinger said:

Pete317 said:

Digby said:

Mr2Mike said:

mantis84 said:

I honestly can't believe anyone really thinks the cyclists are at fault - got to be a wind up surely!

I'm not sure many people do think this, most of the arguments are saying the cyclists didn't help themselves in this situation by bunching up across the width of the road. Just a tiny bit of common sense, and a smidge of self preservation could have either prevented the accident or limited to impact to a single bike.

Apparently it's more important for cyclists bunch up together so they can talk rather than position themselves to improve safety.

In fairness, had they been riding in a single line and met that type of driver at any junction, they would have still been in trouble.

Perhaps, but probably not all of them.

And if correctly spaced so as to stop safely, just one.

All of which is pretty irrelevant, though. The car driver didn't look. You can only ride or drive defensively to a certain extent; planning for drivers too lazy to look would simply mean never using such a road.

Pray tell, how is a driver going to be able to look out from that entrance without sticking their nose out ?
On such roads that is to be expected, the riders did nothing at all to mitigate that danger.

How is a "Gaggle of Lycra" that is unable to stop irrelevant ? Now, if I hit a pull out then it is they who are at fault, if then 3/4 people run it my rear, who's fault is that ? {their fault = driving to close}

Edited by Stickyfinger on Wednesday 20th July 21:19

[Digby]

Stickyfinger said:

Pray tell, how is a driver going to be able to look out from that entrance without sticking their nose out ?
On such roads that is to be expected, the riders did nothing at all to mitigate that danger.

At less than one mph, like I have several thousand times. I have even been known to get out and check on such roads but a general lean over the steering wheel whilst inching forward will avoid such incidents.

Like others, I can't really believe we are even having this conversation. What I would never, ever do, is not check and just launch myself out of such a turning. There may be cyclists coming..

[feef]

Europa1 said:

budgie smuggler said:

No they weren't.

And the car didn't poke it's nose out, it drove straight out of the side road and is about blocking about 3/4 of the road when they hit.

For their own safety they should have moved over to get a better view, but that doesn't mean it is not 100% the cars fault.

Some of the cyclists were on the right hand side of a road approaching a side turning on that side of the road. Car was pulling out of said side turning, which looks like it was pretty blind for anyone pulling out of the side turning. I can't agree with your assertion that it's 100% the car's fault.

Are we sure it's in the UK?

The car has a foreign plate and a bit of stalking/sleuthing suggests the chap that recorded it cycles a lot on the continent.

[Stickyfinger]

The fact the car comes out more is irrelevant, the hit would of happened no matter what from this point on (a point where the car can see)

The following bikes plow into the leading bike, they are at fault for riding when unable to control or stop due to being to close/rat-packed.

[Digby]

What would be your take on it all had the oncoming vehicle been a tractor, another car or HGV etc?

Car / HGV / tractor drivers fault for using such a road?

[Stickyfinger]

For the first "hit", the pulling out car dependant on speed of the car on the road. (does nobody judge that road as extremely dangerous sighting/possible pull-out danger ?)...... if then 3/4 people run into the rear of the first, their fault = driving to close

[Digby]

Stickyfinger said:

For the first "hit", the pulling out car dependant on speed of the car on the road. (does nobody judge that road as extremely dangerous sighting/possible pull-out danger ?)...... if then 3/4 people run into the rear of the first, their fault = driving to close

So your issue isn't with the driver who caused the incident, you are simply saying he or she is at fault, but that there is a possible chance some of the cyclists could have avoided the situation?

I'm not sure what difference any of that makes to the fact the driver was at fault.

[Pete317]

Digby said:

Stickyfinger said:

For the first "hit", the pulling out car dependant on speed of the car on the road. (does nobody judge that road as extremely dangerous sighting/possible pull-out danger ?)...... if then 3/4 people run into the rear of the first, their fault = driving to close

So your issue isn't with the driver who caused the incident, you are simply saying he or she is at fault, but that there is a possible chance some of the cyclists could have avoided the situation?

I'm not sure what difference any of that makes to the fact the driver was at fault.

I don't think anyone's trying to suggest that the driver wasn't at fault - but that less cyclists would have been involved had they not been riding in such a bunched-up fashion.