The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVII)

[Gruber]

barchetta_boy said:

When you say family friendly do you need 4 seats?

3 seats (one that'll take a 16 month old's baby seat) and space for a pushchair etc. And, ideally, room for a week's luggage...

A 928, yes?

[braddo]

ferrisbueller said:

Agreed. It looks great.

I thought the 997 time was gone as GT3 prices increased. I think Braddo's car might have been the optimum timing when I found it. However, these look crazy value at 20k. An R8 is over double that and doesn't offer the practicality. When I look at an R8 I can't convince myself why it would be better than an RS4 for half the money.

Almost - the 997 GT3 tide had just turned. I think my car was the last advertised at a price starting with a 4 (I had an agreement with the seller a couple of weeks before you posted the car in the Thread by the way). In late 2013 JZM were telling me they had a 997 which they were going to sell for around £45-47k (it didn't go on their website); a few months later, one of the JZM sales guys burst out laughing when I told him about someone asking £50k for a private sale of a 53k mile example.

Within a couple of months of that, JZM were at the fore of the rampant inflation of GT3 prices. It's a real shame it all went so crazy so fast.

[ferrisbueller]

GreatPretender said:

Gruber said:

All this Porsche chat over the last couple of days has got me looking at 993s again. Far and away my favourite shaped 911.

It seems a good'un (manual, C2, sub-100k miles) is now £45k. Is that nuts? Or safer than money in the bank?

Depends what you want: a garage queen or a useable car? if the latter, then remember that you'll still need to constantly maintain the thing despite the 45k entry fee.

Then, when you consider that the same money buys you a 996 GT3, I'd say it looks like poor value. Sure, the GT3 will still cost a fortune to keep in fine fettle, but there are few cars even today that offer a finer driving experience. Speaking of which, have you driven a 993? Prepare to be 'surprised' if you haven't. I think its fair to say their looks have aged better than the dynamics.

Both cars are destined to at least hold their money (IMO), so its really a question of what your priorities are.

45k doesn't buy a GT3 anymore.

They're pushing 60k for LHD. Makes Jeremy's look mega at 30k.

[barchetta_boy]

Gruber said:

3 seats (one that'll take a 16 month old's baby seat) and space for a pushchair etc. And, ideally, room for a week's luggage...

A 928, yes?

Got it in one. :-)

Try and get some seat time in a manual... completely different proposition to the autos. Although I see from the classifieds that average condition GTs are now £20k plus... compared to aircooled pork that is still a screaming bargain, but 18 months ago there was a guy on the UK 928 list who really struggled to sell a nice baltic blue GT for £8k.

You will struggle to find a group 1 seat that will fit into a 928 or a 911 for that matter. Many cars that are billed as 2+2s simply don't work with infant seats. 2 examples I've looked at recently are the 8 series BMW and the Aston DB9. Rear seats utterly utterly useless. There is actually quite a lot of room in the back of a 928.

My advice would be to wait until the kids are big enough to use a Group 1/2/3 seat - the kind where the seat belt just goes over the seat and child and there is no separate harness. 16 months is probably just about old enough. A 1/2/3 seat fits nicely in the back of a 928.

There are so many cars out there that are interesting in one way or another, that I've considered either as additions to the fleet or replacements for the 928. But I can't find anything that the kids will actually fit into that is as good to drive. Great that the 928 is finally getting the recognition it deserves.

[ferrisbueller]

braddo said:

ferrisbueller said:

Agreed. It looks great.

I thought the 997 time was gone as GT3 prices increased. I think Braddo's car might have been the optimum timing when I found it. However, these look crazy value at 20k. An R8 is over double that and doesn't offer the practicality. When I look at an R8 I can't convince myself why it would be better than an RS4 for half the money.

Almost - the 997 GT3 tide had just turned. I think my car was the last advertised at a price starting with a 4 (I had an agreement with the seller a couple of weeks before you posted the car in the Thread by the way). In late 2013 JZM were telling me they had a 997 which they were going to sell for around £45-47k (it didn't go on their website); a few months later, one of the JZM sales guys burst out laughing when I told him about someone asking £50k for a private sale of a 53k mile example.

Within a couple of months of that, JZM were at the fore of the rampant inflation of GT3 prices. It's a real shame it all went so crazy so fast.

Agreed. I was considering them when the market was around 50k. I never got as far as driving one as the money went elsewhere.

[ferrisbueller]

Output Flange said:

£50k for that. fksticks. I couldn't do it.

Agreed.

997 C2 for 20k looks even more mega.

[barchetta_boy]

Or 996 for £10k!

In time the 996 will be recognised as a far more interesting and cohesive design than the 997. Preferably in early fried-egg form with the amber indicators.

[jeremyc]

ferrisbueller said:

45k doesn't buy a GT3 anymore.

They're pushing 60k for LHD. Makes Jeremy's look mega at 30k.

Tip tip, Threadists: check what I'm doing in terms of buying & selling cars.

Then do the opposite.

[Cheburator mk2]

barchetta_boy said:

Or 996 for £10k!

In time the 996 will be recognised as a far more interesting and cohesive design than the 997. Preferably in early fried-egg form with the amber indicators.

Have found a pair of early RHD amber lights on the bayofE for £150... Very tempting to go mega retro with the GeTe Drei... After all, she is a MY2000 Clubbie...

[barchetta_boy]

Clear indicators came in MY1999 - Porsche lost their nerve sadly - which was also the first year of the GT3 so no GT3s ever came with ambers.

Having said that - do it! It will look better.

While you are in there, lose the matt black bonnet and get the centres of those BBS wheels done in weissgold. You know it makes sense!

[ferrisbueller]

jeremyc said:

ferrisbueller said:

45k doesn't buy a GT3 anymore.

They're pushing 60k for LHD. Makes Jeremy's look mega at 30k.

Tip tip, Threadists: check what I'm doing in terms of buying & selling cars.

Then do the opposite.

I think we've all done it. At least once.

[Gruber]

barchetta_boy said:

Got it in one. :-)

Try and get some seat time in a manual... completely different proposition to the autos. Although I see from the classifieds that average condition GTs are now £20k plus... compared to aircooled pork that is still a screaming bargain, but 18 months ago there was a guy on the UK 928 list who really struggled to sell a nice baltic blue GT for £8k.

You will struggle to find a group 1 seat that will fit into a 928 or a 911 for that matter. Many cars that are billed as 2+2s simply don't work with infant seats. 2 examples I've looked at recently are the 8 series BMW and the Aston DB9. Rear seats utterly utterly useless. There is actually quite a lot of room in the back of a 928.

My advice would be to wait until the kids are big enough to use a Group 1/2/3 seat - the kind where the seat belt just goes over the seat and child and there is no separate harness. 16 months is probably just about old enough. A 1/2/3 seat fits nicely in the back of a 928.

There are so many cars out there that are interesting in one way or another, that I've considered either as additions to the fleet or replacements for the 928. But I can't find anything that the kids will actually fit into that is as good to drive. Great that the 928 is finally getting the recognition it deserves.

A manual 928 is a definite maybe. I test drove an auto GTS a few years ago - back when I bought the e28 - and it all just felt a bit lazy. Mega grunt, but little involvement. I got out of it and straight into the M5, which although slower was just a much more involving experience. But I can absolutely believe that a manual 928 is a very different proposition.

And I do really love the shape.

Mrs G is less keen, simply because the last 924 I had was utterly st and (to her eyes) the 928 looks just like the 924. But that's a hurdle I've cleared in the past.

It's just a shame there are so few manuals about.

[bungle]

Old(er) Pork prices are just stupid (surely must be a due a fall?!). I almost pulled the trigger (many years ago) on a low mileage 993 C4S for mid-30's, but in the end didn't (partly baulking at the price), but god knows what it would be worth now.

It makes new(er) Pork look "cheap". Early Cayman anyone? Bargain (engine issues (potential) aside).

In other news, my son's homework this week was "research F1 cars for a project we are doing in class next week (making an F1 car)". So we've been watching youtube clips this morning, discussing slicks vs wets, carbon fibre, high power / low weight = fast car, what the wings do, etc. Happy days . But if anyone knows a really kid-friendly website to understand the basics of an F1 car and how it differs from a road car (without getting too technical) please let me know (specifically the car, and not the F1 drivers / teams / scoring / grands prix, etc)

[0a]

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...



Manual as well. Just imagine piloting this down to Italy and back again. Fantastic.

[L100NYY]

That's an awful lot of car in todays market for £40k isn't it (yes, I known it only seems like yesterday they were £10k).

Same age as me too

[L100NYY]

[deadslow]

0a said:

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...



Manual as well. Just imagine piloting this down to Italy and back again. Fantastic.

Very, very nice car. I would love to own one of these.

[bungle]

All this talk of Pork has got me looking at Caymans again. I think I have a Cayman and 205 itch I need to scratch. Just need to find £30k down the side of the sofa...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

[olly755]

Gruber said:

In any event, it's a stupid idea. If we can't all easily fit in it (me, Mrs G, Baby G and all his gubbins) it'll never get used.

Back to the RS4 plan.

RS4 is a good idea if you like your family. A deluded pal of mine paid a couple of Pumas for a pair of OPC kiddie seats to shoehorn into a 997, just so they could leave the family estate at home at the weekend. Yeah, I know.

Look! The family can come too! Had to stifle my giggles when he showed me. What a joke. Great if everybody loves cramp, dead legs and chiropractors, but not my idea of family harmony.

[Crook]

L100NYY said:

Ideal lady's urban runabout.