RE: PH Carpool: Lotus Elise S1 Sport 135
Discussion
This PH Carpool is quickly turning into an online job application - another very well written review. I had a Sport 135 over a decade ago now (also swayed by Evo) but actually regretted it. In hindsight I wished I bought a standard 111S as the Sport was grip, grip, grip then instant let go (i.e. nowhere near as progressive as the standard set-up) which was too much for a road car for me. What the article doesn't say is that the engine note is completely uninspiring, the gearbox is like stirring (lumpy) porridge and there's far too much NVH in the cabin to be used as a daily driver - but they remain hugely pretty little things (JT did indeed site the Dino as the inspiration) and I also enjoyed one of my finest drives in the little Elise. Defo a great shout for a w/e and trackday toy.
I've owned a Mk1 MX5 and, later on, a Series 2 Elise. I'd recommend an MX5 everytime over an Elise. As described in the article, I found its constant need for attention/maintanance/repairs just too annoying. The ventialtion was virtually non-existant too, so in the winter it wouldn't warm up or demist. The MX5, however, was just like any other Japanses car from a reliability point of view and the handling was very progressive.
LewisR said:
I've owned a Mk1 MX5 and, later on, a Series 2 Elise. I'd recommend an MX5 everytime over an Elise.
Conversely, I've owned a couple of S1 Elises and a Mk1 MX5, and I'd say there simply no competition. Whilst I can see the MX5's appeal, the Lotus is simply in a different league.chevronb37 said:
In my case I can't blame the suspension - it's running Nitrons and set up by Martin Edwards who has run race-winning S1 Exige race cars for years. In my case I went in a little too quickly and the back started coming round. I caught it and we continued; albeit with a little less vigour the next lap. My suspicion is that the tyres were over-inflated for track work. Toyo Proxes T1-Rs which prove way too grippy for my ambitions on the road but they heat up on the track and you can feel the car moving around on the tread blocks. It was inexperience and lack of talent which caused my little transgression but kept the car on the island (more through good luck than good judgement) and we lived to fight another day.
I will do a Walshy day when time/money permits in order to make myself less crap though!
I have s1 sport 190. Great car but the toyo t1r were rubbish on track. I spun a few times on those. Changed to the toyo r1r which I really like.I will do a Walshy day when time/money permits in order to make myself less crap though!
LewisR said:
I've owned a Mk1 MX5 and, later on, a Series 2 Elise. I'd recommend an MX5 everytime over an Elise. As described in the article, I found its constant need for attention/maintanance/repairs just too annoying. The ventialtion was virtually non-existant too, so in the winter it wouldn't warm up or demist. The MX5, however, was just like any other Japanses car from a reliability point of view and the handling was very progressive.
Funnily I've had a lot of people ask me about the Elise as they're interested in getting one and a lot of the time I end up recommending the MX-5. The Elise does demand a certain mindset and willingness to accept compromises which people who just want a 'nice' car won't accept.andreas542 said:
Great read! I've always fancied one of these in the future, but I'll be hard pushed to pick one over, say, a Caterham when they're both intended as toys.
+1!I bought an S1 111s as a toy having owned a 450Chimaera, ( lovely but craved something sharper ), and having experienced a couple of laps around Silverstone in an S1. Have to say that whilst it was great when being thrashed the overall ownership was not the best. Always something to fix, a pain in the arse to use for anything other than hooning, awkward to fix, tricky handling on certain roads when pressing on etc..Looking back I chose the Lotus over a Caterham as I felt it would be pretty close in terms of thrills but offer an extra dose of practicality. Reality was that I only really enjoyed it/used as a toy as I stopped enjoying nipping to the shops in it etc due to aforementioned. As a result I should have bought a 7 and had an even purer experience whilst accepting that it was best left in the garage for anything other than weekend spanking.
In the end I got shut and bought a Griff500 with a few mods, ( stupendous and desperately missed ), before wanting something sharper again. Sold the Griff and bought a 1370cc Jedi single seater and went hillclimbing to fix my craving for race like responses, ( rapid and makes the Lotus/TVRs feel barges by comparison ).
If it were me again I'd go a 7, ( faster, purer, easier to work on , better handling, only marginally less practicle unless using daily ), and a cheap hack. Otherwise TVR/Boxter/Z4M etc..as offer lots of fun but can be comfy/practical rest of the time.
Good to see another owner enjoying the S135 
.
I have owned #42 for the last 4.5years (currently for sale: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3505443.htm )
Not that this is a sales pitch, but you can see the common items that are of benefit to fettle if you are a prospective buyer.
In terms of handling, I've had mine on standard Konis and tired P6000s initially, through T1-Rs on standard set-up, through new bushes, Nitrons etc..
All upgrades push the safety factor up, but at its most basic, drive within your limits and you'll be fine. The car might just point out your limits quicker than others. In over 4 years of my ownership, it is a car that simply has not stopped giving. You build a such a deep relationship with them, that is reflected in the posts on here by past and current owners; initially they can show up your deficiencies as a driver, you learn their foibles, you up your skill level, smoothen your inputs, perhaps ditch habits & reactions developed in high-powered rwd LSD-equipped M3s in my case, and instead focus on what an Elise brings to the party.
What it brings is the simple purity of a low-mass, high-dynamic driving experience. You begin to revel in the delicacy and instantaneous response to steering, brake, and throttle; learning to meld them until small combinations of all three has the car dancing. The lack of power doesn't matter then - it has enough to work the chassis into, through, and out of a bend depending on how you set up your entry.
After 4 years, as I said the car just does not stop giving. I know mine inside out, yet never once has it not brought happiness when on a run. You raise your game, it raises it too. As I have evolved as a driver, it has matched me every step. Challenged me, rewarded me, given me so many seminal moments.... epic car, these.
It is such a simple joy, the Elise. Caterhams bring another, even more pared down and pure experience, but the additional challenge of the mid-engine in the S1 Elise in particular gives the two enough air that both are complementary. I wouldn't be selling mine, in fact I have severe doubts as to my wisdom, but I want to progress my driving learning and want to learn the rear-engined dynamic. So a 911 is on the cards at some point, although I am addled with doubt as to the ultimate wisdom of selling.
As an aside, one post commented on how carp the T1-Rs are, because they spun. Might I respectfully suggest that the issue may not be the tyres fault? If you can feel a cars grip level, you drive within it unless you are happy to play beyond - I've ran T1-Rs exclusively for four years, and have never had much issue. They move from grip to slip very progressively, wear a bit quick if you are extremely abusive, and are good value.
So the the OP, nice article, great to see you enjoying it, and I hope you have many years of learning and fun in it!
TJ
.I have owned #42 for the last 4.5years (currently for sale: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3505443.htm )
Not that this is a sales pitch, but you can see the common items that are of benefit to fettle if you are a prospective buyer.
In terms of handling, I've had mine on standard Konis and tired P6000s initially, through T1-Rs on standard set-up, through new bushes, Nitrons etc..
All upgrades push the safety factor up, but at its most basic, drive within your limits and you'll be fine. The car might just point out your limits quicker than others
. In over 4 years of my ownership, it is a car that simply has not stopped giving. You build a such a deep relationship with them, that is reflected in the posts on here by past and current owners; initially they can show up your deficiencies as a driver, you learn their foibles, you up your skill level, smoothen your inputs, perhaps ditch habits & reactions developed in high-powered rwd LSD-equipped M3s in my case, and instead focus on what an Elise brings to the party. What it brings is the simple purity of a low-mass, high-dynamic driving experience. You begin to revel in the delicacy and instantaneous response to steering, brake, and throttle; learning to meld them until small combinations of all three has the car dancing. The lack of power doesn't matter then - it has enough to work the chassis into, through, and out of a bend depending on how you set up your entry.
After 4 years, as I said the car just does not stop giving. I know mine inside out, yet never once has it not brought happiness when on a run. You raise your game, it raises it too. As I have evolved as a driver, it has matched me every step. Challenged me, rewarded me, given me so many seminal moments.... epic car, these.
It is such a simple joy, the Elise. Caterhams bring another, even more pared down and pure experience, but the additional challenge of the mid-engine in the S1 Elise in particular gives the two enough air that both are complementary. I wouldn't be selling mine, in fact I have severe doubts as to my wisdom, but I want to progress my driving learning and want to learn the rear-engined dynamic. So a 911 is on the cards at some point, although I am addled with doubt as to the ultimate wisdom of selling.
As an aside, one post commented on how carp the T1-Rs are, because they spun. Might I respectfully suggest that the issue may not be the tyres fault? If you can feel a cars grip level, you drive within it unless you are happy to play beyond - I've ran T1-Rs exclusively for four years, and have never had much issue. They move from grip to slip very progressively, wear a bit quick if you are extremely abusive, and are good value.
So the the OP, nice article, great to see you enjoying it, and I hope you have many years of learning and fun in it!
TJ
Edited by T.J. on Friday 13th January 20:57
Edited by T.J. on Friday 13th January 20:58
Edmundo2 said:
Looking back I chose the Lotus over a Caterham as I felt it would be pretty close in terms of thrills but offer an extra dose of practicality. Reality was that I only really enjoyed it/used as a toy as I stopped enjoying nipping to the shops in it etc due to aforementioned. As a result I should have bought a 7 and had an even purer experience whilst accepting that it was best left in the garage for anything other than weekend spanking.
Having owned both an Elise and a Seven, I found the Seven to be the far purer and honest car. The Elise actually felt too compromised (can you believe that!). It was too skittish on the road, and too heavy on the track. The Seven with it's front engine, rear wheel drive, was a blast on the road, over-steering with ease and control, and cracking fun on the track. Although best suited to short twisty tracks due to a total lack of aero, and therefore not great at accelerating much beyond 120 or so....Still love the Elise though. It's a beaut to look at, but sadly too much of a handful on the roads for my limited driving ability....
Rawwr said:
S135 was easily the best S1 variant.
May I correct? The S135/99 is easily the best S1 variant as it came with wider wheels (of the 111S) and is rarer with only 35 built.Unfortunately the S135 was not offered here in Germany, so I had to send a friend to UK to buy me one. He converted the car to LHD, did a suspension refresh and a general renewal of all ball-joints, bushes, cambelt etc. Now she is waiting to be driven.
I love Elises to bits so I have stored some nearly new S1s with 6k to 10k miles in order to be able to drive my favorite car when some idiot doesn't find the brake, runs into my car and destroys it beyond repair. Would even like to take an Elise to heaven when my time has come.
Of more than 100k miles on my Elises I have enjoyed every single journey. Most memorable was the autumn of 2009 when I spent some weeks in the alps doing many, many passes: some 6k miles.
...Na MX-5 owner here...would love a series 1 Elise, mustard yellow for me...but it's down to cost in my case, £1500 vs £7-8k + £1000 all in per year will more than cover all running costs of the 5 at a garage....I don't think I would have the time and money to keep ontop of an Elise so the mx-5 works for me...Buy maybe one day...
Thorburn said:
otolith said:
Or accelerate like one. Or communicate like one. It does go sideways more benignly, though.
My old MX-5 was an absolute bugger in the wet, very snappy whenever standing water was involved. Actually find the Elise more predictable.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff