RE: PH Blog: Why US muscle still rules - for now
Discussion
Regiment said:
ljgand said:
A brand new top of the range 6.2 426 bhp Camaro can currently be bought for £31,292 in the UK.
In the US a new ZL1 is $54,095 - just under £35k, and when I looked at importing a car last year the costs added up to about 30%, so you could import a ZL1 today for a total cost of less than £45k.
Got a quote from Newport Imports a couple of weeks ago, the v8 Camaro starts at £40000 with the v6 starting at £28000In the US a new ZL1 is $54,095 - just under £35k, and when I looked at importing a car last year the costs added up to about 30%, so you could import a ZL1 today for a total cost of less than £45k.
K2MDL said:
If you want to sample what has to be the best in American Muscle then pop along top the Surrey meet of CCCUK this Wednesday night, 4th of July at Silvermere in Surrey.
For more info see: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Or you could wait until the end of the month and head over to the Mopar Euronationals at Santa pod?For more info see: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
LuS1fer said:
It wasn't too good to be true in 2005 when we were getting over 2 dollars to the £ and Gordon later gave us a 15% VAT holiday. That enabled the sharper of our number to get hold of these cars for bargain prices.
They're not perfect, for sure, but they are such a refreshing antidote to all things utterly competent and yet blatantly banal. The bargains were widely advertised too - Autocar imported one and ran it. EVO imported one and ran it. They may have ultimately failed the "not so much a scalpel as a Stanley Knife" test butwhen did a Stanley Knife ever fail to achieve the appropriate incision?
We had all the mockings of Clarkson over the live axle but even he had to give a nod of respect to a supercharged Roush while pointing out the obvious - that the way heavier GT500 with an iron block engine didn't handle as well. It also pulled a respectable 1:28 out of the TG track and not even pitting it against a supercharged Exige on semi-slicks could make it look like it truly lost.
The fact is that the 2005 Mustang changed the game a bit and actually dished up a car that steered well and provided a handy 300 horses (not that that was new as Ford and Chevy had been offering 305-325hp since the 90s. Yet they managed to retain that character and the fun aspect carefully laundered out of most modern cars by excessive competence which was supplanted by gadgets and slightly plusher interiors as the new entertainment.
The standard car lacked much by way of suspension control but new suspension kits are sold by the bucketload and knockdown prices in the US. I paid $550 plus duties for 4 adjustable dampers and £205 for Roush springs and the addition of a supercharger netter a "mere" 460hp which as any PH'er will know is barely adequate to pass muster these days.
It's a shame that the dollar got stronger and it's a shame we all got busted with 10% import duty and 20% VAT on top of that as it deprives us of the latest and possibly greatest of the breed.
However, you can't put a price on exclusivity and nothing ever comes close to matching the road presence of these cars in the UK, they are blue collar heroes for the working man in theory and never get anything but positive responses, even 7 years after I bought mine. I think if they were common, that would spoil it a bit so I'm happy to live with themyths and prejudices people harbour about these cars.
Whether the big horsepower continues or not, I think these are the last of the breed. For too long, Ford have been referencing the BMW M3 which, fortunately, has been getting bigger and bigger but I think the next gen, apart from IRS, will be downscaled and Europeanised for a global market and that is what will not so much ruin it as homogenise it....so yes, ruin it.
This is the sort of intelligent, considered and informed comment that keeps me coming back to PH.They're not perfect, for sure, but they are such a refreshing antidote to all things utterly competent and yet blatantly banal. The bargains were widely advertised too - Autocar imported one and ran it. EVO imported one and ran it. They may have ultimately failed the "not so much a scalpel as a Stanley Knife" test butwhen did a Stanley Knife ever fail to achieve the appropriate incision?
We had all the mockings of Clarkson over the live axle but even he had to give a nod of respect to a supercharged Roush while pointing out the obvious - that the way heavier GT500 with an iron block engine didn't handle as well. It also pulled a respectable 1:28 out of the TG track and not even pitting it against a supercharged Exige on semi-slicks could make it look like it truly lost.
The fact is that the 2005 Mustang changed the game a bit and actually dished up a car that steered well and provided a handy 300 horses (not that that was new as Ford and Chevy had been offering 305-325hp since the 90s. Yet they managed to retain that character and the fun aspect carefully laundered out of most modern cars by excessive competence which was supplanted by gadgets and slightly plusher interiors as the new entertainment.
The standard car lacked much by way of suspension control but new suspension kits are sold by the bucketload and knockdown prices in the US. I paid $550 plus duties for 4 adjustable dampers and £205 for Roush springs and the addition of a supercharger netter a "mere" 460hp which as any PH'er will know is barely adequate to pass muster these days.
It's a shame that the dollar got stronger and it's a shame we all got busted with 10% import duty and 20% VAT on top of that as it deprives us of the latest and possibly greatest of the breed.
However, you can't put a price on exclusivity and nothing ever comes close to matching the road presence of these cars in the UK, they are blue collar heroes for the working man in theory and never get anything but positive responses, even 7 years after I bought mine. I think if they were common, that would spoil it a bit so I'm happy to live with themyths and prejudices people harbour about these cars.
Whether the big horsepower continues or not, I think these are the last of the breed. For too long, Ford have been referencing the BMW M3 which, fortunately, has been getting bigger and bigger but I think the next gen, apart from IRS, will be downscaled and Europeanised for a global market and that is what will not so much ruin it as homogenise it....so yes, ruin it.
American muscle cars are not really my thing, but reading posts like this reminds me why others are, and why there are so many different flavours of petrolhead.
jeremyfd said:
The new "world" Mustang in 2014 will have independent suspension which - if Ford stick to the rules that all cars they build have to be sold in all world markets - could mean the end of the muscle car as we know it.
Why? If it has an optional V8, how can it be the end of the muscle car?Ford tried dropping the V8 from the Mustang once before, in 1974. The result was a sales disaster and the Camaro overtook it.
GM has a 'world' muscle car in the form of the Holden platform that underpins the Monaro, Maloo, VXR8 and Chevrolets Camaro, SS and Lumina, as well as saloons like the Kingswood and the Premier.
There's a whole range of engines, but if they thought about dropping the optional V8 for one minute, their sales would fall off a cliff, even if it's just a halo-effect - I bet a lot of people buy the V6 versions to rumble around in simply because they couldn't afford the V8 but want to bask in its aura. No V8, no aura.
Good old American muscle!
Love the looks, the sound, the power.
Ok, they might not generally handle as well as their European rivals, or be as well built, but, at that sort of money, you can't really complain can you?
Can't have it all. You'd be looking at more than double that amount for the equivalent Porsche with similar power outputs (or less power, actually).
Love the looks, the sound, the power.
Ok, they might not generally handle as well as their European rivals, or be as well built, but, at that sort of money, you can't really complain can you?
Can't have it all. You'd be looking at more than double that amount for the equivalent Porsche with similar power outputs (or less power, actually).
Twincam16 said:
Ford tried dropping the V8 from the Mustang once before, in 1974. The result was a sales disaster and the Camaro overtook it.
Not true. 1974 was a fuel crisis. The Mustang II was a stroke of genius that caught the dinosaur V8s on the wrong foot. The Mustang had record sales of the II in 1974 and 1975 and it was never outsold by GM. indeed, it's success ensured to continuation of the Mustang in 1979. The V8 actually came back into the line-up in 1975 but all V8s of that era were weak-kneed with 245hp or similar.
LuS1fer said:
Not true. 1974 was a fuel crisis. The Mustang II was a stroke of genius that caught the dinosaur V8s on the wrong foot. The Mustang had record sales of the II in 1974 and 1975 and it was never outsold by GM. indeed, it's success ensured to continuation of the Mustang in 1979. The V8 actually came back into the line-up in 1975 but all V8s of that era were weak-kneed with 245hp or similar.
245hp? They would have jumped for joy at 245bhp. When they reintroduced the V8 in 1975, the 302 made 145hp. But the Mustang II did sell more than a million in five years so it was pretty successful. davepoth said:
245hp? They would have jumped for joy at 245bhp. When they reintroduced the V8 in 1975, the 302 made 145hp. But the Mustang II did sell more than a million in five years so it was pretty successful.
Soory, Dave, a typo on my part. It was indeed 145hp but then that was what a Trans Am was pumping out in 1982 as well. They torqued the torque but didn't so much walk the walk in the hungry years....The IRS on the Mustang Cobra was compromised by having to use the same mounts as the live axle - which most drag racers immediately refitted.
Chris, you may be right that the horsepower wars will end in tears. My view is slightly different. I found myself browsing the PH classifieds the other night and picked out a £9500 2008 4.0 V6 Mustang and couldn't help wishing it was manual. Same powertrain as the Aussie Fairline hearse that I got to drive after taking a service at the crematorium (thanks Alan!). My perception is that by continually developing old tech, pushrod engines, live axles etc., the US market has actually refined the muscle car quite to become something new. Fuel consumption, handling, build quality, braking are all better. My prediction is that slowly but surely new tech such as twin turbo V6's (see Jay Leno's Sema Camaro for example) will change the horsepower debate from capacity to power output and see rising returns on mpg while Aussie and Euro chassis developments make the power more handleable and the interiors more plush and squeak free. The muscle car was always a bit of mirage as a driving experience. No 481 Hemi owner thought they had great brakes, heck, even the adds showed the car getting dangerously sideways. Companies like Hotchkis and co have been trying to tame the power for years. Its just that Ford and GM are doing this successfully on showroom ready models. I think the muscle car is safe because it is evolving into something it never was in terms of driving experience, yet it maintains the soul of a great real world driving experience.
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