RE: Chris Harris video: M135i vs A45 AMG
Discussion
CJP80 said:
s m said:
Yes, they did a full test on one back in Nov 2012 - white 3 door auto
The auto is only supposed to be 15kg more. Sounds like their figures are b
ks!10 dead to 100mph is mental for a hot hatch.
Even a 197 Clio is nearly 1300kg
The new Golf Gti they weighed last week came in at 1450kg
Edited by s m on Wednesday 17th July 23:17
cerb4.5lee said:
It's funny you mention the Evo as they keep waxing lyrical about the Bhp per litre of the merc & it's Bhp & at first I thought they are good results out of a four pot but then I remembered about both the Evo's you have said, the japs were leading the way a long time ago.
An Evo won't do 41mpg or emit 161g/km of CO2, though. The A45 AMG's engine is very impressive in that respect.wolfiekutner said:
I dont get why a slightly understeering car means it would be "slaughtered" - put an RS3 on a country road and it would leave the BMW and have a great fight with the A45. Furthermore, it would sound a whole lot better and (personally) look better. Sometimes there is too much of a bias towards what a roadtester looks for as opposed to what is actually important in real-life driving.
There's more to whether or not the RS3 would be slaughtered than understeer. Damping, body control, outright grip, steering feedback and just generally how confidence inspiring a car it is might be factors. Journalists generally agree it underperforms relative to (reasonable) expectations like yours, so it's not too much of a surprise. Also, you can't really argue with a man that's driven all 3 unless you have as well. You can't say the RS3 "would leave the BMW and have a great fight with the A45" when the man that has driven all 3 says that's not the case.I agree with you about real world realities being important, but they're all good at that, so you have to look to the extremes for a differentiator.
David87 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
It's funny you mention the Evo as they keep waxing lyrical about the Bhp per litre of the merc & it's Bhp & at first I thought they are good results out of a four pot but then I remembered about both the Evo's you have said, the japs were leading the way a long time ago.
An Evo won't do 41mpg or emit 161g/km of CO2, though. The A45 AMG's engine is very impressive in that respect.Ved said:
Fourty thousand pounds for a hatchback. Jesus.
And there's the nub. I think these are both awesome cars. As I said on another thread they catapult the hatchback upwards and for the first time since the origins of the species, back into genuine supercar territory.
No bones, these are great cars. They are also pug ugly cars but I don't think for one moment that is actually relevant. We buy cars to drive not f
k. But, once we are talking about forking out £40-£50+ for urban shopping cars with very unexciting interiors then one has to wonder if there aren't better packages out there for the performance?
For the money I suspect I'd find a little more and get a car which has as much sense of occasion about its style and essence as it does about its performance.
David87 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
It's funny you mention the Evo as they keep waxing lyrical about the Bhp per litre of the merc & it's Bhp & at first I thought they are good results out of a four pot but then I remembered about both the Evo's you have said, the japs were leading the way a long time ago.
An Evo won't do 41mpg or emit 161g/km of CO2, though. The A45 AMG's engine is very impressive in that respect.Even aside from that, a 4 (and not one that I'd ever particularly like), a far too serious price tag and sat-nav by Ainol are just 3 starters for me.
Expensive, ugly - but impressive. The BMW is JUST passable in design, mainly because it is so familiar thanks to BMW's bone-idle styling department. The Merc though desperately needs the booted version to look anything like a real car, the hatchback is so ugly it should have been crushed at birth. The resulting block would have looked more stylish.
Still, one man's meat is another man's poison etc etc. HOW much are they again?????
Still, one man's meat is another man's poison etc etc. HOW much are they again?????
wolfiekutner said:
I dont get why a slightly understeering car means it would be "slaughtered" - put an RS3 on a country road and it would leave the BMW and have a great fight with the A45. Furthermore, it would sound a whole lot better and (personally) look better. Sometimes there is too much of a bias towards what a roadtester looks for as opposed to what is actually important in real-life driving.
An RS3 does look quite nice outside, but the inside is, a few trinkets apart, identical to the one in my mother's 8.5 yr old A3 Sportback. I.e. it looks ancient and feels ancient. Plus, when I test-drove one, it didn't make me grin. Sure, it was supremely quick and does make a good noise (much nicer than that farting A45), but it just wasn't really particularly entertaining. Plus, it was also £40k new and Audi laughed in the face of discounts. Anyway it was a no-brainer for me. RS3 is auto-only. So is A45 AMG. My M135i is a manual. Thank you BMW, for allowing me the choice. I can live with the guppy features for the ability to change my own gears the fun way.
LOOL, think you been on too much of Ned's urban sports that has turned you loopy. The BMW is NO beauty, its down right fkin ugly. The Merc although odly shaped, looks miles better.
kin ugly. The Merc although odly shaped, looks miles better.UrbanSports said:
The BMW is a beauty compared to that Mercedes slab sided Korean box, I like the look of most Mercedes cars but that thing is just dreadful and puts me off straight away.
What a bland looking car the A class is.
What a bland looking car the A class is.
s m said:
CJP80 said:
s m said:
Yes, they did a full test on one back in Nov 2012 - white 3 door auto
The auto is only supposed to be 15kg more. Sounds like their figures are bks!10 dead to 100mph is mental for a hot hatch.
Even a 197 Clio is nearly 1300kg
The new Golf Gti they weighed last week came in at 1450kg
Edited by s m on Wednesday 17th July 23:17
Great video again Chris. Thanks.
caymanbill said:
The M135 is such a cool car.
In 3 door form it looks great, especially when compared to it's contemporaries. I suspect alot of the people that do think this car is ugly are just a bit slow off the mark and will warm to it ove time. Or perhaps they just buy furniture and union jack cushions from Next, food from ASDA and drive a golf or a megane. i.e have no discernible taste.
...or perhaps they just have a different opinion to you? Wait, are you the Official Pistonheads Taste Barometer?In 3 door form it looks great, especially when compared to it's contemporaries. I suspect alot of the people that do think this car is ugly are just a bit slow off the mark and will warm to it ove time. Or perhaps they just buy furniture and union jack cushions from Next, food from ASDA and drive a golf or a megane. i.e have no discernible taste.
As it stands I like most things about the Merc, compared to the M135i. I prefer the looks (it might be bland but at least it's pretty inoffensive when specced without too much of the optional carbon tat), the interior (particularly with the optional seats) and the pace. Maybe it's because I'm part of the "Playstation generation", but while the prospect of RWD drifting is certainly nice, it perhaps isn't the be all and end all of driving dynamics as it is to other people. Besides, the Merc CAN get it's tail out and play when provoked. While I'd love a nice playful RWD car, the A45 does seem to offer some serious real world (read: all weather and grip levels) ability. To be fair, I'd love the A45 with the BMW's driving dynamics and sound, but I think the Merc is a nice all-round package.
The only thing I don't like is the price, but alas most cars are expensive these days and thems the breaks. I'd hate to see how much it is OTR here in Australia given even the manual 3-door Golf GTI starts at $46,000 (GBP27, 000).
Edited by lap_time on Thursday 18th July 00:33
Edited by lap_time on Thursday 18th July 01:17
caymanbill said:
The M135 is such a cool car.
In 3 door form it looks great, especially when compared to it's contemporaries. I suspect alot of the people that do think this car is ugly are just a bit slow off the mark and will warm to it ove time. Or perhaps they just buy furniture and union jack cushions from Next, food from ASDA and drive a golf or a megane. i.e have no discernible taste.
...or perhaps they just have a different opinion to you? Wait, are you the Official Pistonheads Taste Barometer?In 3 door form it looks great, especially when compared to it's contemporaries. I suspect alot of the people that do think this car is ugly are just a bit slow off the mark and will warm to it ove time. Or perhaps they just buy furniture and union jack cushions from Next, food from ASDA and drive a golf or a megane. i.e have no discernible taste.
As it stands I like most things about the Merc, compared to the M135i. I prefer the looks (it might be bland but at least it's pretty inoffensive when specced without too much of the optional carbon tat), the interior (particularly with the optional seats) and the pace. Maybe it's because I'm part of the "Playstation generation", but while the prospect of RWD drifting is certainly nice, it perhaps isn't the be all and end all of driving dynamics as it is to other people. While I'd love a nice playful RWD car, the A45 does seem to offer some serious real world (read: all weather and grip levels) ability. To be fair, I'd love the A45 with the BMW's driving dynamics and noise, but I think the Merc is a nice all-round package.
The only thing I don't like is the price, but alas most cars are expensive these days and thems the breaks. I'd hate to see how much it is OTR here in Australia given even the manual 3-door Golf GTI starts at $46,000 (GBP27, 000).
Edited by lap_time on Thursday 18th July 01:23
TheBigUnit said:
s m said:
CJP80 said:
s m said:
Yes, they did a full test on one back in Nov 2012 - white 3 door auto
The auto is only supposed to be 15kg more. Sounds like their figures are bks!10 dead to 100mph is mental for a hot hatch.
Even a 197 Clio is nearly 1300kg
The new Golf Gti they weighed last week came in at 1450kg
Edited by s m on Wednesday 17th July 23:17
Great video again Chris. Thanks.
DonkeyApple said:
kingmalik786 said:
compare the m135i to a m3 e36 thats the video i wanna see
The whole suite of M3's from inception with the 135 thrown in on top would be an amazing review to see how the world evolves (considering the 125 is probably very close in size to the original M3). Why no LSD option for the BMW?
If buyers would want it and BMW could make money on it why not offer it?
£40K? How much was an Integrale back in the day? An old Parker's Used Price Guide said they were £25K new in '94 on an L. I ran out of patience looking for cars that were a comparable price in '94.
They both sound fantastic cars for driving. I'm not a fan of complication and needless new fangledness but they both move the game on massively. What with the recent mutterings here about the Esprit I am reminded of a CAR Magazine test where they pitted a 4 pot Turbo Esprit against a 205GTi 1.9 and what Clarkson said about the F12 on Top Gear an episode back. On the roads in the UK an F12 doesn't sound like it would cover the ground much quicker than an A45.
If Monkey says the RS3 doesn't make the grade I believe him. I remember his video of a hot Haldex equipped A3 and it mentioned 'tuning' or 'reprogramming' the Haldex? If the A45 and the transverse 4WD system used in the Alfa 159 trump Haldex then it sounds like VAG are going to have develop a better 4WD system for their transverse powered cars, especially with Audi sticking 'Quattro' badges on them. Given the comment about Monkey's opinion in that Audi TT-S piece here a day or so ago he seems consistent on his reservations about Haldex.
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