RE: Chris Harris video: Alfa Romeo 4C
Discussion
bobberz said:
Still don't understand the "it's a four pot so sounds rubbish" comments. Sure, it's not going to sound like a NA V6 or V8, but four bangers can sound good in their own right. Particularly old, carbureted British sports cars. Think: Austin-Healey 100/4 or anything with the old Cooper-Climax SOHC 4. I never thought they lacked anything in the sound department.
Its not the 4 pot so much, its that turbo in the way, muffling any decent sound.If they'd supercharged it and let it sing, gave it throttle response back and it was manual, it'd be more of a sports car to me.
I come from a background of 2 seater mid engined light cars and the best cars we built were never the 4 pot turbos. Quickest maybe but not the best drivers tool.
V6Alfisti said:
I am hearing quite a bit of noise for a 4 pot, small lag point as with nearly 99% of turbo fours, flappy paddles to help with the weight and rear suspension that seemingly has no negative effect on the car (i.e both sharp and playful) and fun for both road and track.
What am I missing?
Have you ever driven a recent turbo 4? They just aren't in the same league as a n/a engine for throttle response, no where close. It's not the lag, which isn't huge, they're all just a bit lazy, never keen, and always a little distant compared to a n/a. And this car is 900kgs!! It doesn't need torque. It doesn't need that low down muscle to get it moving, because there's no mass to overcome. It's completely the wrong engine choice for a car like this. Sure it's functional, but when you go to all the effort of making a car this light, you give yourself engine options heavier cars can't dream of. A modern 2.0l, or 2.5l V6, properly geared in a slippy, 900kg car would do 45mpg on a run no problem... That would be special...What am I missing?
PunterCam said:
I like it more now that I've seen that video - it looks like it'd be a laugh on the road. But there's something wrong... There must be! I read his review and though he was underwhelmed and now, having watched the video, he still seems a little tentative with his praise! This is a 900kg Alfa sports car, and Chris isn't going completely mad for it. He's talking about the seats, the crap steering wheel, something odd about the steering off centre - I can't help but think if this car was the absolute dogs b
ks he wouldn't have given two sts about any of the flaws. I hope Alfa haven't sold themselves short.
I still can't forgive the use of turbocharging in such a small, light car. The last thing a 900kg car needs it turbodiesel levels of torque. It should have top end power. Alfa should have designed and built one of the all time great n/a 4 cylinders, or better yet, a 2.5l v6. This car with a 250bhp low capacity V6 would blow everything away. The extra weight (which wouldn't make any difference to the feel of the car anyway) would easily be offset by the manual gearbox they should be offering me as well!
Toyburu and Alfa have given it a really good go these last 2 years, but no one's {i}quite{/i} got there yet...
Really ??ks he wouldn't have given two sts about any of the flaws. I hope Alfa haven't sold themselves short. I still can't forgive the use of turbocharging in such a small, light car. The last thing a 900kg car needs it turbodiesel levels of torque. It should have top end power. Alfa should have designed and built one of the all time great n/a 4 cylinders, or better yet, a 2.5l v6. This car with a 250bhp low capacity V6 would blow everything away. The extra weight (which wouldn't make any difference to the feel of the car anyway) would easily be offset by the manual gearbox they should be offering me as well!
Toyburu and Alfa have given it a really good go these last 2 years, but no one's {i}quite{/i} got there yet...
Lotus Exige, only slightly over a ton, and 350hp V6
Lotus Elise 111r, 1.8 litre high reving, high bhp per litre engine
Monkey's video has me warming to this car. I was a skeptic.
It doesn't really move the game on from the '96 Elise. It's an Elise alike from a company with a great treasure chest of heritage to plunder. We've seen Alfas and Lotuses compete on the same track.
It's a shame about the steering wheel, and Harris made the same criticism of the F-Type.
I get the point about compromises with the engine and the rear suspension but on the road and on the track did it really matter? Do those missing features or compromises materialise once you are sat in it and the thing is moving?
Watching that video, I could drive it without slamming into the Armco sideways like a rented RS4 at Castle Combe?
It's a four pot turbo? Good for MPG? Good for emissions? How many Elises have had 4 pot VAG Turbos put in them? What percentage of VX220s were Turbos?
Surely if they went for a V6, which one would they use, they'd have to compromise the weight, packaging and price. When a V6 is mentioned it's difficult not to think of the Stratos and surely anything with such a motor would be nibbling at 911 money?
How big is the Elise market? Positioning the Alfa has a half way house between Elise and Cayman makes sense.
I'm not entirely won over, but the video makes me think the 4C could have some merit. Some of the styling looks a bit suspect but Alfa deserve some praise for building it.
It doesn't really move the game on from the '96 Elise. It's an Elise alike from a company with a great treasure chest of heritage to plunder. We've seen Alfas and Lotuses compete on the same track.
It's a shame about the steering wheel, and Harris made the same criticism of the F-Type.
I get the point about compromises with the engine and the rear suspension but on the road and on the track did it really matter? Do those missing features or compromises materialise once you are sat in it and the thing is moving?
Watching that video, I could drive it without slamming into the Armco sideways like a rented RS4 at Castle Combe?
It's a four pot turbo? Good for MPG? Good for emissions? How many Elises have had 4 pot VAG Turbos put in them? What percentage of VX220s were Turbos?
Surely if they went for a V6, which one would they use, they'd have to compromise the weight, packaging and price. When a V6 is mentioned it's difficult not to think of the Stratos and surely anything with such a motor would be nibbling at 911 money?
How big is the Elise market? Positioning the Alfa has a half way house between Elise and Cayman makes sense.
I'm not entirely won over, but the video makes me think the 4C could have some merit. Some of the styling looks a bit suspect but Alfa deserve some praise for building it.
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 24th September 12:34
Love everything about this car. The styling the theos behind it, the exclusivity and the price.
A true petrol heads dream. Alfa are going to sell this car to people who have never bought Alfa's before.
They will hold value too, probably for the next three to four years.
The fact it's got a turbo isn't a huge concern for me. I like them.
If you want a bit more power out of it in the future I'm sure 300 will be easily achievable without great expense.
They have plans for a 300bhp version in the future.
This will give a PTW ratio better than a Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997).
A true petrol heads dream. Alfa are going to sell this car to people who have never bought Alfa's before.
They will hold value too, probably for the next three to four years.
The fact it's got a turbo isn't a huge concern for me. I like them.
If you want a bit more power out of it in the future I'm sure 300 will be easily achievable without great expense.
They have plans for a 300bhp version in the future.
This will give a PTW ratio better than a Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997).
6cm wider than a cayman. I think people must be getting confused between inches and feet when picturing 6cm.
Alfa I imagine could have designed, developed and built say a 2.5 v6 specifically for this car, but it wouldn't have been anywhere near the same price, would have had similar performance, and then it would have been too slow for the price.
If someone made an 800kg, 300 hp v6, mid engined, manual, carbon chassis, 50 mpg car for £20k there'd still be someone saying 'yeah, but it doesn't have soul'
Alfa I imagine could have designed, developed and built say a 2.5 v6 specifically for this car, but it wouldn't have been anywhere near the same price, would have had similar performance, and then it would have been too slow for the price.
If someone made an 800kg, 300 hp v6, mid engined, manual, carbon chassis, 50 mpg car for £20k there'd still be someone saying 'yeah, but it doesn't have soul'
Ian974 said:
Alfa I imagine could have designed, developed and built say a 2.5 v6 specifically for this car, but it wouldn't have been anywhere near the same price, would have had similar performance, and then it would have been too slow for the price.
Exactly. The only reason the car got signed off and costs so little is that it uses an off the shelf engine and gearbox. Both will soon be found in the Giulietta QV and the forthcoming Giulia. The only V6 Fiat group have is the 3.0 turbo V6 in the Ghibli and that's a whole new ballgame, and probably wouldn't fit anyway.
OlberJ said:
bobberz said:
Still don't understand the "it's a four pot so sounds rubbish" comments. Sure, it's not going to sound like a NA V6 or V8, but four bangers can sound good in their own right. Particularly old, carbureted British sports cars. Think: Austin-Healey 100/4 or anything with the old Cooper-Climax SOHC 4. I never thought they lacked anything in the sound department.
Its not the 4 pot so much, its that turbo in the way, muffling any decent sound.If they'd supercharged it and let it sing, gave it throttle response back and it was manual, it'd be more of a sports car to me.
I come from a background of 2 seater mid engined light cars and the best cars we built were never the 4 pot turbos. Quickest maybe but not the best drivers tool.
I've sat and patiently watched this car come and go from the news and upto that video my only dislike was the lights, which i reasoned could be painted to match the body anyway...that video has me actually thinking of swapping my 530bhp Z06 for it. Infact it is the first car that has ever had me thinking of selling my car.
For me it is the best looking car in the market for this price and has the ability to entertain as a drivers car. If they don't sell them by the load it will be a crying shame!
When are they likely to be in showrooms?
For me it is the best looking car in the market for this price and has the ability to entertain as a drivers car. If they don't sell them by the load it will be a crying shame!
When are they likely to be in showrooms?
Let's just accept that a bespoke screaming n/a engine was never really going to be in the picture because of cost/efficiency reasons. Given that, if anyone knows how to make a twin-cam 4-cyl engine characterful it's the Italians so let's just wait and see how it turns out in real life - YouTube is great but doesn't allow you to really hear what the engine is doing.
The steering wheel is mercifully free of buttons so should be an easy swap out for a nicer item
Some bright spark (Autodelta, Novitec etc.) will come up with a less 'challenging' headlight arrangement.
The rear suspension doesn't appear to have compromised the car in any significant way.
So that just leaves the question over the excessive width which can't be resolved.
I like.
The steering wheel is mercifully free of buttons so should be an easy swap out for a nicer item
Some bright spark (Autodelta, Novitec etc.) will come up with a less 'challenging' headlight arrangement.
The rear suspension doesn't appear to have compromised the car in any significant way.
So that just leaves the question over the excessive width which can't be resolved.
I like.
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