BMW, Mercedes or Audi?

[Dr Jekyll]

I'd go for the Audi simply because FWD would give me a better chance of getting to work when it's snowy. Otherwise I genuinely cannot tell the difference in handling between RWD and FWD.

[Toltec]

RobM77 said:

I'm a massive Honda fan, but it's such a shame they don't make a RWD car with a low CofG. As much as I love my wife's CTR, I could never have one as a daily driver as for me it's too tall and I prefer RWD. If Honda made a 3 series and it drove well, I'd never give a second thought to BMW.

A little like yourself I do not particularly want to buy a bmw, it is simply that there do not seem to be any other options with the same mix of characteristics.

[aeropilot]

Dr Jekyll said:

I'd go for the Audi simply because FWD would give me a better chance of getting to work when it's snowy. Otherwise I genuinely cannot tell the difference in handling between RWD and FWD.

Are you sure you should be on PH.......

[aeropilot]

av185 said:

Fact is, none of these three marques are "premium" sector cars any more. Fleets, discounting, easy finance and ubiquity has put paid to that and it could be argued by many they are now as much "white goods" as more recognised mainstream brands.....

IMHO most Audis are particularly dull, soporific and uninvolving to drive and Mercedes run a close second.....

Most BMWs, in contrast, whilst in no way being the "ultimate driving machine" offer much more to the seasoned PH petrolhead as an all round ownership proposition......

I'd agree with this, except that as almost every BMW sold in the UK thesedays are diesel powered, I'm not sure about the ..... appeal to seasoned PH petrolhead remark

Other than the ///M cars, I'm not sure the ultimate driving machine tag is deserved or should be used by BMW anymore either. Some of the F20/F30 cars I've had as loaners in recent times have been pretty shocking things to drive in all honesty, and with BMW badges appearing on fwd cars in the not too distant future, the BMW board are hell bent on turning BMW into Audi anyway.

[Buff Mchugelarge]

joshc said:

Well, as a 20-something still driving his first car, I aspire to lots of these cars. The BMW 1/Audi A1 and Mercedes A-Class don't interest me much, but the larger models do. Granted the majority of them are just rep cars/fancy taxis but all 3 of these makes still produce some desirable models. The problem I have though, with justifying ever buying one, is that - are they really that much better than cheaper brands now? Ford, Skoda, even Hyundai/Kia are all building some very solid and half-decent looking cars for far far less - and issues that used to plague these cars like rust and reliability problems seem to have mostly (if not completely) gone now. So someone tell me, is there a reason to buy one of the premium German brands over another, except for the badge and bigger road presence?

Agree with this.
Good post

[kambites]

daemon said:

Probably very little down to personal choice. However my point was that if i want a medium saloon car built by Mercedes Benz then i would buy a C Class. If i want a medium saloon car built by BMW, i buy a 3 series. If i want a medium saloon car built by VAG, then you can get a just-as-good but better spec'd Passat for £4K less.

I dont see a standard A4 offering anything over a standard passat

Why on earth would you pick the manufacturer first then pick the car? I don't really see the relevance of the fact that the A4 and the Passat are built by the same company.

[page3]

daemon said:

For me...

People who tend to drive BMWs tend to not like Audis, and vice versa.

Mercedes have always had a relatively staid image and the average age of Mercedes drivers is quite old. Mercedes are actively trying to address that, with cars that are more appealing to younger people. Dynamically though the likes of the new A Class isnt that great, though it looks the part.

Of the three, Audi has, and always will have the weakest image because there is so much platform and component sharing between them and VW, Skoda and SEAT.

I personally dont "get" Audis. Given most A4s are common or garden 2.0 TDI's and the bulk of those are SEs, i dont understand what the advantage is over a VW Passat. Likewise an A3 in "standard" trim offers little advantage over a Golf.

The A3 looks nicer, has a far better interior and the base models can be cheaper than the Golf - mine was.

[RobM77]

Toltec said:

RobM77 said:

I'm a massive Honda fan, but it's such a shame they don't make a RWD car with a low CofG. As much as I love my wife's CTR, I could never have one as a daily driver as for me it's too tall and I prefer RWD. If Honda made a 3 series and it drove well, I'd never give a second thought to BMW.

A little like yourself I do not particularly want to buy a bmw, it is simply that there do not seem to be any other options with the same mix of characteristics.

That's exactly it. My BMW's roof is at chest height so it's easy to load stuff on it, the balance and handling are superb (the low CofG helps there) and it's very quiet on the motorway for long trips. I've never driven anything else that even comes close.

[jonnM]

Surely these three brands are now too common to be considered aspirational?

[deltashad]

I don't have a personal favourite 'brand', if any one of the manufacturers built something appealing to me I'd go and take a look, with no prejudice.

I've never owned an Audi. But that's not because I have a problem with them, just there was always something else which interested me more at the time.

[va1o]

jonnM said:

Surely these three brands are now too common to be considered aspirational?

As long as budget/ mainstream brands like Kia and Ford continue to exist the likes of BMW, Audi and Mercedes will remain prestigious and aspirational. It's the same in other industries like IT, the Apple iPhone is dead common but they still remain a high end brand.

[joshc]

Buff Mchugelarge said:

Agree with this.
Good post

Thanks, but I'm still waiting for someone to explain why I would choose a BMW, Mercedes or Audi over a Ford, Skoda, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, etc...I'm not so sure I agree about 'driving dynamics' being better on German cars (or specifically BMW) - because Ford's Fiesta ST for example is very good at handling etc...maybe I'm missing something though?

From what I can tell, build quality on a lot of cheaper brands are now at the same level as the German cars - especially since the German cars lost their touch of having sumptuous leather and bespoke real wood trim etc - the majority of German cars I've looked at have cloth seats similar to what you get in any other car, and similar trim that you can get in any other car.

[Monkeylegend]

Audi - Chavs and holigans
BMW - Aspiring junior managers and people who think they are driving gods.
Mercedes - The thinking mans car, understated, suave.

I of course have a Mercedes.

[av185]

jonnM said:

Surely these three brands are now too common to be considered aspirational?

Fair point.

But I suppose an increasing number of even petrolheads, whilst not realising it, are hynotised by the powers of marketing........

[kambites]

joshc said:

Thanks, but I'm still waiting for someone to explain why I would choose a BMW, Mercedes or Audi over a Ford, Skoda, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, etc...I'm not so sure I agree about 'driving dynamics' being better on German cars (or specifically BMW) - because Ford's Fiesta ST for example is very good at handling etc...maybe I'm missing something though?

From what I can tell, build quality on a lot of cheaper brands are now at the same level as the German cars - especially since the German cars lost their touch of having sumptuous leather and bespoke real wood trim etc - the majority of German cars I've looked at have cloth seats similar to what you get in any other car, and similar trim that you can get in any other car.

When we were last buying a (second-hand) car for the wife, we looked at all of the above brands (in the form of the 3-series, C-class, A3 and A4) and ended up with a Skoda Octavia because the wife genuinely thought it was a better car than any of the Germans. I had a mild preference for a 330i because I've always preferred RWD cars, but in all other respect I largely agreed - as a general means of family transport, the Octavia was simply a better car than the Germans.

[Pablo68]

joshc said:

Thanks, but I'm still waiting for someone to explain why I would choose a BMW, Mercedes or Audi over a Ford, Skoda, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, etc...I'm not so sure I agree about 'driving dynamics' being better on German cars (or specifically BMW) - because Ford's Fiesta ST for example is very good at handling etc...maybe I'm missing something though?

From what I can tell, build quality on a lot of cheaper brands are now at the same level as the German cars - especially since the German cars lost their touch of having sumptuous leather and bespoke real wood trim etc - the majority of German cars I've looked at have cloth seats similar to what you get in any other car, and similar trim that you can get in any other car.

Well go drive a mid/top spec ford focus or skoda octavia or kia/Hyundai whatever then drive a BMW/Audi/Merc (And I don't mean a 1.8 diesel pov spec) and you will feel the difference. If you can't you may as well buy yourself the Ford/Skoda/Kia/Other unremarkable shopping trolley on wheels

[joshc]

Pablo68 said:

Well go drive a mid/top spec ford focus or skoda octavia or kia/Hyundai whatever then drive a BMW/Audi/Merc (And I don't mean a 1.8 diesel pov spec) and you will feel the difference. If you can't you may as well buy yourself the Ford/Skoda/Kia/Other unremarkable shopping trolley on wheels

And the difference will be...what? Obviously I could go and test drive 10 cars but I think it may be simpler just to hear it from someone like yourself, no?

For the record, I'm not really questioning if a £60,000 BMW is better than a £20,000 Ford - of course it is. I was talking about comparing similar spec/priced cars.

I also think it's sad when perfectly good cars are labelled as 'unremarkable shopping trolleys' - what about the new Octavia vRS, or the Mondeo Titanium X Sport? I'm not saying they match your BMWs - which obviously look like very nice cars - but in my opinion German cars are not the only good looking/fast performing cars in existence - there are many good alternatives.

Edited by joshc on Sunday 5th January 16:02

[Pablo68]

joshc said:

Pablo68 said:

Well go drive a mid/top spec ford focus or skoda octavia or kia/Hyundai whatever then drive a BMW/Audi/Merc (And I don't mean a 1.8 diesel pov spec) and you will feel the difference. If you can't you may as well buy yourself the Ford/Skoda/Kia/Other unremarkable shopping trolley on wheels

And the difference will be...what? Obviously I could go and test drive 10 cars but I think it may be simpler just to hear it from someone like yourself, no?

I also think it's sad when perfectly good cars are labelled as 'unremarkable shopping trolleys' - what about the new Octavia vRS, or the Mondeo Titanium X Sport? I'm not saying they match your BMWs - which obviously look like very nice cars - but in my opinion German cars are not the only good looking/fast performing cars in existence - there are many good alternatives.

Well the problem is it's all very subjective. You really do need to go test drive all those cars to see which you prefer.


I used to have a very heavily breathed on Mk FL vRS 2.0TSi... it was just shy of 300bhp so not far off what my 335i is and although it was bloody quick it was a looong way from the 335i in terms of overall quality of build, general feel and even how comfy it was doing a long journey

Edited by Pablo68 on Sunday 5th January 16:04

[fatboy b]

AB said:

fatboy b said:

AB said:

BMW are in a different class in terms of driving dynamics.

You think otherwise?

A4 vs 3 series vs C class

A6 vs 5 series vs E class

Etc etc.

Driven them all. The BMW is a class ahead.

I wouldn't touch a 5-series on looks alone. I've been in a 335d, shockingly bad ride. I've owned an e46 M3, good but still hard. I've owned an A5, good, but front-end heavy. I've driven various guises of A4, all ok but average.

I was stuck with what to get. I ventured over to a Jaguar showroom to try an XF. My god I was astounded at how good it was. So good, in fact I bought a new one. 25k miles later, and it still puts a smile on my face whenever I drive it. Two modes of suspension setting give it a very good all-round ability without 3-series bone-shaking.

[joshc]

Pablo68 said:

Well the problem is it's all very subjective. You really do need to go test drive all those cars to see which you prefer.

OK - I must be missing something though...Are you saying you, yourself, an owner of two BMWs, cannot tell me why you bought those instead of a similar price/spec from a non-German manufacturer? I'm not saying your decision was wrong - I just want to hear the reason from yourself, a BMW owner!