Can I reject my car?

[PurpleTurtle]

mattmurdock said:

What reason are they giving for not p/xing you for another new car? Surely that would be a winner for them, as they get the new sale, have the 520d back until the software update (which they are having to do/fund anyway) and then once it is fixed they can sell it. Or if it doesn't get fixed they can bill BMW UK for it.

What is stopping you from buying the 528i or 530d right now?

Good point. On the assumption that the software fix will definitely fix your car - which it of course will, right?- then why don't they buy it from you at market value? I'm assuming you've already readied yourself for the depreciation hit and it's a non-issue (it wouldn't be for me personally, but each to their own).

[Yadizzle1]

Jakdaw said:

Sounds like they're only suggesting parking it up because OP is making a fuss. Given the description of the fault thus far seems to be that once a fortnight the car doesn't start properly, but having been turned off and turned back on again is tickety boo: I don't think anyone could make a decent case for the goods not being fit for purpose. It must take an addiotional 20 seconds out of the OPs day... sheesh...

Not saying that BMW shouldn't fix it, and it sounds like they are making efforts to do so - but grounds to reject the car? What planet would you need to be on?

It's essentially a brand new car, would you have much confidence in a car if it kept bringing up messages and immobilising the car. Would you be happy if you were in my position?

As far as I'm concerned, I don't expect a brand new car to develop a reoccurring fault within a month, that for some reason isn't fixable for 3 months. As others have said, I've given BMW the chance to fix it but 3 months is a bit ridiculous don't you think?

At the end of the day, I'm paying for a fully working car and in return I expect just that. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Rammy76]

Dave Hedgehog said:

the germans do seam to have a habbit of making the odd lemon

That's an understatement!

[Yadizzle1]

Dave_ST220 said:

I'd say it's easier to win the lottery than reject a car. Software fault my arse.

I suspect it's more than a software fault too, surely if it were, more cars would be affected by it.

[SpeckledJim]

Yadizzle1 said:

Jakdaw said:

Sounds like they're only suggesting parking it up because OP is making a fuss. Given the description of the fault thus far seems to be that once a fortnight the car doesn't start properly, but having been turned off and turned back on again is tickety boo: I don't think anyone could make a decent case for the goods not being fit for purpose. It must take an addiotional 20 seconds out of the OPs day... sheesh...

Not saying that BMW shouldn't fix it, and it sounds like they are making efforts to do so - but grounds to reject the car? What planet would you need to be on?

It's essentially a brand new car, would you have much confidence in a car if it kept bringing up messages and immobilising the car. Would you be happy if you were in my position?

As far as I'm concerned, I don't expect a brand new car to develop a reoccurring fault within a month, that for some reason isn't fixable for 3 months. As others have said, I've given BMW the chance to fix it but 3 months is a bit ridiculous don't you think?

At the end of the day, I'm paying for a fully working car and in return I expect just that. Nothing more, nothing less.

If the problem is literally as described above, you're being a bit precious.

They'll fix the car. Be a bit patient.

[Yadizzle1]

Rammy76 said:

That's an understatement!

I can't quite believe it but the 320i they gave me, after the z4 broke, has a "crackling" passenger window switch that gets extremely hot every time it's used.

[Efbe]

Yadizzle1 said:

Rammy76 said:

That's an understatement!

I can't quite believe it but the 320i they gave me, after the z4 broke, has a "crackling" passenger window switch that gets extremely hot every time it's used.

well stop whining and do something about it!!!

In your position I would have been on the phone non stop until I got this resolved. you seem quite happy to sit back and whinge about it, yet not do a whole lot.

[Yadizzle1]

SpeckledJim said:

If the problem is literally as described above, you're being a bit precious.

They'll fix the car. Be a bit patient.

I know I might be acting a bit precious, but this is the first time I'm spending such a huge amount of money on a car and I was expecting it to go fairly decently. Secondly, I suspect it's more than a software fault. If it were, why not replace the faulty computers instead of making me wait 3 months for a software update that *MIGHT* fix the car?

[Yadizzle1]

Efbe said:

well stop whining and do something about it!!!

In your position I would have been on the phone non stop until I got this resolved. you seem quite happy to sit back and whinge about it, yet not do a whole lot.

Fair point, but I feel like a bit of a knob having complained so much!
They say they've got no other cars in at the moment so this'll have to do.

I'm not to impressed by the Germanic build quality at the moment!

[SpeckledJim]

Yadizzle1 said:

SpeckledJim said:

If the problem is literally as described above, you're being a bit precious.

They'll fix the car. Be a bit patient.

I know I might be acting a bit precious, but this is the first time I'm spending such a huge amount of money on a car and I was expecting it to go fairly decently. Secondly, I suspect it's more than a software fault. If it were, why not replace the faulty computers instead of making me wait 3 months for a software update that *MIGHT* fix the car?

It has gone 'fairly decently'. It just hasn't gone perfectly.

Whether or not the car is a lot of money for you or not is immaterial to the issue of the fault being actually very minor, and a fix being on the way.

If they think its a software fault, then they won't change hardware, will they.

Don't forget the dealer is actually on your side to some extent - the manufacturer pays them to do warranty work on your car. Yay. Keep the garage onside - your gripe is with the manufacturer, whom you tackle through and with the help of the dealer.

And if you bought German for quality reasons, you're about 20 years too late. You want Japanese.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 15th May 19:44

[Efbe]

Yadizzle1 said:

Efbe said:

well stop whining and do something about it!!!

In your position I would have been on the phone non stop until I got this resolved. you seem quite happy to sit back and whinge about it, yet not do a whole lot.

Fair point, but I feel like a bit of a knob having complained so much!
They say they've got no other cars in at the moment so this'll have to do.

I'm not to impressed by the Germanic build quality at the moment!

don't be embarrassed. they won't. they will just be happy you gave up so easily.
I remember having a (very expensive)laptop that kept on over heating. I must have phoned Dell up around 50 times, each time not ending the call, making them do it. It took tenacity, patience and being a complete to the poor sod on the other end of the phone, often who was just a blocker for me speaking to someone that could do something. 3 months of this, several engineers, and I was given a brand new replacement.

know your rights, tell them you know them, be polite but firm, and use the power of silence (i.e. you dont always have to say something, often gaps lead to caving in)

now go call them!

[Yadizzle1]

SpeckledJim said:

It has gone 'fairly decently'. It just hasn't gone perfectly.

Whether or not the car is a lot of money for you or not is immaterial to the issue of the fault being actually very minor, and a fix being on the way.

If they think its a software fault, then they won't change hardware, will they.

Don't forget the dealer is actually on your side to some extent - the manufacturer pays them to do warranty work on your car. Yay. Keep the garage onside - your gripe is with the manufacturer, whom you tackle through and with the help of the dealer.

And if you bought German for quality reasons, you're about 20 years too late. You want Japanese.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 15th May 19:44

They've told me that it's an "individual case" and that the ECU's are at fault. Now, being an individual case, the fault affects only my car, so am I not right in assuming that changing the ECU's and flashing with the current software would fix the fault, given that no other 520d's have the same problem?

I came from a 2010 Honda Accord which was less well put together than my 15 year old Accord. In all honesty, I just wanted to have a "prestige" vehicle and experience a BMW having had Accords for the last 20-ish years.

[Efbe]

Yadizzle1 said:

They've told me that it's an "individual case" and that the ECU's are at fault. Now, being an individual case, the fault affects only my car, so am I not right in assuming that changing the ECU's and flashing with the current software would fix the fault, given that no other 520d's have the same problem?

I came from a 2010 Honda Accord which was less well put together than my 15 year old Accord. In all honesty, I just wanted to have a "prestige" vehicle and experience a BMW having had Accords for the last 20-ish years.

It couldn't possibly in any way be faulty software.
first this does not really exist. software is software. it can become corrupted, but this is unlikely in a car, it would require a change in the software for this to happen, which it has not.
even in this case a simple refresh/reinstall would fix it.

a new software release would only work if it was affecting every car with this software, or you had a one off spec of hardware into which this software plugged; which you don't.

in short they have lied.

[Tango13]

Yadizzle1 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

I'd say it's easier to win the lottery than reject a car. Software fault my arse.

I suspect it's more than a software fault too, surely if it were, more cars would be affected by it.

I take it the car has keyless/remote fob ignition? If it had an old fashioned key and barrel system i'd be looking at that as the e39's were notorious for the radio not working when the barrel gets worn.

[Yadizzle1]

Efbe said:

It couldn't possibly in any way be faulty software.
first this does not really exist. software is software. it can become corrupted, but this is unlikely in a car, it would require a change in the software for this to happen, which it has not.
even in this case a simple refresh/reinstall would fix it.

a new software release would only work if it was affecting every car with this software, or you had a one off spec of hardware into which this software plugged; which you don't.

in short they have lied.

I've asked them for a written statement of what's wrong with the car and what the repair process is, hopefully I should have it in the morning.

[Yadizzle1]

Tango13 said:

I take it the car has keyless/remote fob ignition? If it had an old fashioned key and barrel system i'd be looking at that as the e39's were notorious for the radio not working when the barrel gets worn.

Yep, it's a keyless start type of fob.

[Efbe]

Yadizzle1 said:

I've asked them for a written statement of what's wrong with the car and what the repair process is, hopefully I should have it in the morning.

get them to e-mail it. they can do it when you are on the phone then! :P

[Yadizzle1]

I asked for a written statement today and the technician I talked to said I can't have one until he's had a word with his boss. However, he did say that they basically don't know what is wrong with the vehicle and have been told by BMW UK that the vehicle might be fixed after the software update, so it's not definitely fixed after 3 months.

[Efbe]

Yadizzle1 said:

I asked for a written statement today and the technician I talked to said I can't have one until he's had a word with his boss. However, he did say that they basically don't know what is wrong with the vehicle and have been told by BMW UK that the vehicle might be fixed after the software update, so it's not definitely fixed after 3 months.

then you should ask to speak to his boss

[Dave Hedgehog]

Yadizzle1 said:

I asked for a written statement today and the technician I talked to said I can't have one until he's had a word with his boss. However, he did say that they basically don't know what is wrong with the vehicle and have been told by BMW UK that the vehicle might be fixed after the software update, so it's not definitely fixed after 3 months.

that's not good enough imo

i would be looking to give it back