Is it time to take Korean cars seriously?

[Chicane-UK]

Spooky timing on this thread.

Walked past a Kia Pro'Ceed GT parked on my road yesterday and did have to stop and admire it for 20 seconds or so as I thought it looked really sharp. I don't think pictures really flatter it but think it looks almost as nice as a Golf GTI or similar to be honest.

[Devil2575]

Chicane-UK said:

Spooky timing on this thread.

Walked past a Kia Pro'Ceed GT parked on my road yesterday and did have to stop and admire it for 20 seconds or so as I thought it looked really sharp. I don't think pictures really flatter it but think it looks almost as nice as a Golf GTI or similar to be honest.

It looks better than a Golf GTI and it will probably be more reliable.

[dazwalsh]

Chicane-UK said:

Spooky timing on this thread.

Walked past a Kia Pro'Ceed GT parked on my road yesterday and did have to stop and admire it for 20 seconds or so as I thought it looked really sharp. I don't think pictures really flatter it but think it looks almost as nice as a Golf GTI or similar to be honest.

yeah that does look cracking, especially the wheels!

[ZX10R NIN]

I believe they're selling on price, the spec & warranty are also hard to ignore but all three are relevant if you're not looking for a PH car.

One of these for 18k seems like a good deal 178bhp & 285 ft/lb torque after a Remap so the lack of go is addressed.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 4th May 09:18

[daemon]

ZX10R NIN said:

I believe they're selling on price, the spec & warranty are also hard to ignore but all three are relevant if you're not looking for a PH car.

One of these for 18k seems like a good deal 178bhp & 285 ft/lb torque after a Remap so the lack of go is addressed.

But £18K doesnt buy you that. That one has been modded with upgraded rims and lowered. £18K buys you the entry level car with an asthmatic 130BHP engine.

So its this...



And a plastic fantastic interior



OK, so you can remap it to death and invalidate your warranty and rapidly decrease engine life, but you've still just got a dynamically below average car.

[anonymous-user]

Good cars. They have filled the void left by makers such as Skoda etc who deserted their core audience by being too expensive & by going too 'bling'

[daemon]

Jimboka said:

Good cars. They have filled the void left by makers such as Skoda etc who deserted their core audience by being too expensive & by going too 'bling'

Skoda and KIA compete for the same customers in the same pricing band.

[ZX10R NIN]

Just had a look at what you get if you wanted a good family sized car 64/15 Plate with less than 100 miles on the clock for 18k or less.

The Optima seems like really good value especially when you consider the spec & warranty, even the Power is good compared to it rivals. 134bhp 232ft/lb Standard Fuel Consumption's not as good 58mpg £110.00 Road Tax but does counter with 3 Years Free Servicing & that long Warranty.
Optima

Skoda

The go to choice on PH for Value & Equipment 105 bhp 185ft/lb 74mpg £0 Road Tax
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

VW Passat 66mpg £30.00 Road Tax
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Vauxhall 128bhp £30.00 Road Tax 63mpg
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...


The extra standard equipment the Optima has in 3 spec compared to it's rivals are:
Xenons Fully Adjustable Lumbar Supported Seats Rear Electric Windows Bluetooth Streaming European Nav Heated Front & Rear Seats Parking Sensors all round 19 inch Alloys Auto Lights Wipers Cruise Control Full Leather Interior Reverse Camera 12 Speaker Infinity Sound System Dual Climate Control Parallel Park Assist Voice Control.

I have to say unless you're a badge snob I reckon these are now a good buy.

[ZX10R NIN]

daemon said:

But £18K doesnt buy you that. That one has been modded with upgraded rims and lowered. £18K buys you the entry level car with an asthmatic 130BHP engine.

So its this...



And a plastic fantastic interior



OK, so you can remap it to death and invalidate your warranty and rapidly decrease engine life, but you've still just got a dynamically below average car.

WRONG
18K Buys you these:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

All look like the Image below I don't know where you found that one for 18k but it seems a bit overpriced compared to others for sale.

By the way they all come with the 134bhp engine, what else would you suggest for the money? With less than 100 miles on the clock & 18k Max to spend on this size of car I'd be interested to see what you find.

As for Remapping if you use a decent company they'll cover what Kia don't.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 4th May 11:21

[Ali_T]

elephantstone said:

It won't be called an i-anthing because it is not a hyundai concept.

[Ali_T]

daemon said:

Skoda and KIA compete for the same customers in the same pricing band.

As do M&S, Saga, Pavers Shoes and Pringle.

[Willy Nilly]

daemon said:

And a plastic fantastic interior

all car interiors are made predominantly of plastic

[CrgT16]

Although KIA has improved massively over the last few years it still doesn't cut it for me. Plastic interiors, dubious rear styling, it is just not enough European for me. Mind the likes of Audi are also dull to look but somehow I find the European options more pleasing to own and live with. The interiors generally feel a better place and better finished and for me for the same money I prefer that perceived quality. We also have more engine options on the European counterparts.

I get what they are doing, building a competent, average, reliable car, definitely white good kind of car and that's fine, lots of people just want a steering wheel, 4 wheels and suits their needs. I want a bit more than that, good handling, better engines and a nice quality interior with good materials... Hey I am a badge snob.

[GreenArrow]

Interesting reaction to my OP. Most of the really negative comments are from people who don't own, would never own a Korean car, whilst all those who have taken the plunge are really positive. I don't understand the "these are white goods, average to drive, not best in class" comments either, because in fairness something like an Audi A3 has never delivered dynamically, but people have bought them in their droves due to the cool badge. I should know, I owned a Mk1 Audi A3 and the handling/ride was pretty mediocre quite honestly. As for the old cliché of being bland I disagree. I sat in loads of Kias and then the Skodas/Peugeots/Renaults etc and they are pretty much of a muchness. The Kia C'eed for example is certainly a better looker than the Focus and less "bland" IMO than everyone's favourite the Golf, which just evolves a little with each generation. The Optima in the right spec is a real looker I think.

So for those of us that need sensible family wheels, I think Kia and Hyundai offer a very attractive product.

[Qussz]

What are you guys suggesting that's comparable, new, around the same price and doesn't have a plastic interior?

I like that red estate thing, looks very Alfa to me, I also like the Ceed Pro GT thing, good price, performance and equipment

[cbgt3]

Totally agree with what you say OP, like I said in my post I still own an Audi, also an A3 but a Quattro S Line Sportback, Do I take it in preference to the Sportage when I need to go out. No is the answer to that one.
Sportage is very different, Granted, but very capable and in all honesty I don't feel like I am driving a much lesser car, completely different feedback and driving style, eg softer on corners and not as quick, but its a completely different vehicle and a great one at that.
In my 32 year driving history I have had many cars at all levels, small hatchbacks, 80s GTis, family estates and kiddie carriers, Also still own a very quick German sports car with a top speed of a shade under 200mph.
Point I am trying to make is with all of my driving experience with a very broad range of cars I think personally the Kia does cut it in todays world if it suits the purpose for what you require from a car.
If anyone had told me 3 years ago I would own a Kia, I would have laughed but I am laughing on the other side of my face now at how good it actually is.
I am a Kia convert.

[laters]

I have just recently bought a mid sized suv/4x4 and with my limited budget I considered all the usual makes/types along with a good few others including Kia and Hyundai. In the price bracket I was looking at, upto £6000, there were the Mercedes/bmws with higher mileages to get them within my price band.
The Japanese of Honda, Nissan and suchlike along all the others.
I did try a couple of Kia/Hyundai and I will be honest they are massively improved from a few years ago. The cars I was looking at were not their current models and still a bit lacking compared to the other cars in the same price bracket.

At one of the car sales lots the salesman let us try a Kia that was a couple of years old and out of our price bracket just so we could see how good it was.
Was the salesman correct? In a lot of ways yes Kia really have got their act together in the last few years that's a certainty.

Did I buy a Korean car? Nope the ones I could afford just didn't cut it for me. But I will admit that by the time it comes round to time to get a replacement for the Honda I bought I do think that a Kia or Hyundai will be a serious contender? Yes.

I do think that the older ones we tested were better than we expected by quite a margin but the negative points were just too much at this time. I do think that with the progress from where they were to where that are now is so big that Kia and Hyundai can only head further up and in doing so will slowly but surely make inroads into the customers who would never have considered them at one point.

I remember when the first Hyundai and Kia appeared on the market and if only the other manufacturers had moved on as far in such a time both in image and quality of product.

[Kinky]

What are the driving positions like on these cars?

Are they designed/developed for local markets, where typically the customer is smaller than Europeans?

[blearyeyedboy]

laters said:

At one of the car sales lots the salesman let us try a Kia that was a couple of years old and out of our price bracket just so we could see how good it was.
Was the salesman correct? In a lot of ways yes Kia really have got their act together in the last few years that's a certainty.

Did I buy a Korean car? Nope the ones I could afford just didn't cut it for me. But I will admit that by the time it comes round to time to get a replacement for the Honda I bought I do think that a Kia or Hyundai will be a serious contender? Yes.

And that's why it's important to play the long game, which Skoda did very well in the early noughties. No, Skoda still don't have the cachet of other brands but people no longer look at you like you're crazy if you buy one. In some areas (Octavia vRS, Superb estates, Yetis) they have appeal or USP's that other brands don't. Kia will do the same before 2025, mark my words (and charge me an internet pint if they don't).

If they can pop a decent 2 litre turbo in that Pro Ceed and give it an LSD, I think it'd shock many people. It'd also cost more than a Focus ST though, and wouldn't be a commercial success because their brand couldn't sustain that yet- but it will given enough time. I wouldn't say it's a dead cert but I think they'll eventually make a braver performance model in one or two generations' time.

[ZX10R NIN]

CrgT16 said:

Although KIA has improved massively over the last few years it still doesn't cut it for me. Plastic interiors, dubious rear styling, it is just not enough European for me. Mind the likes of Audi are also dull to look but somehow I find the European options more pleasing to own and live with. The interiors generally feel a better place and better finished and for me for the same money I prefer that perceived quality. We also have more engine options on the European counterparts.

I get what they are doing, building a competent, average, reliable car, definitely white good kind of car and that's fine, lots of people just want a steering wheel, 4 wheels and suits their needs. I want a bit more than that, good handling, better engines and a nice quality interior with good materials... Hey I am a badge snob.

I mostly agree with you but when you add in price £18000.00 you'd have to compromise on the size of car (An A1) to get an Audi for the money.
Someone who's looking for an Audi A4 isn't going to consider an Optima because the Audi will be into the 25K zone a not to insignificant £7000.00 price difference. But I do understand why you'd choose a secondhand Audi over an Optima preferring the badge.

But the interior argument falls down it's just as good as the Skoda/VW inside just look at the photos & can you honestly say the Skoda/VW Interiors look better/less pastic fantastic than the Kia's?

I am a badge snob but if I was looking for family transport & had that kind of money to spend & needing a new car I would consider it my brothers daily is a good example he's averaging 43.2mpg on his commute his is re mapped though, but he does have his E92 M3 for the weekends he says spec wise he can't fault it now.

Everything works the only things he wanted changed were the wheels the remap the Turbo & Clutch are no longer covered by Kia but they are now under the tuners warranty (lowering it is an interesting one in the state Kia will fit Eibach Springs without invalidating the Warranty so he's waiting from an answer from Kia UK on that one) now his worst gripe is he'd like a hard drive so he doesn't have to stream his music all the time. First World Problems! LOL

Interior wise I don't see a big difference in interior quality until you get to the Audi as you'd expect for 8k more
Ford Mondeo


Vauxhall Insignia

VW Passat

Skoda Octavia

Kia Optima

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 4th May 12:37