What is the least "PH" car?
Discussion
battered said:
I'd like to leap to the defence of the Vauxhall Astra 1.4. Not because it's any sort of driving machine but because it makes a great shed choice. I know very well, I made a profit on mine. Bought it for a staggering £275 and sold it 18 months on for £300, having taken it to France for work for 3 months. It did a sterling job and remains a car for which I have great respect and affection. Here's the rub though - it came to me with the usual collection of receipts, including one for about £2k when it was ~10 yrs old and ~60k miles. At that point I think it offers poor value - little merit over the sheddy version I bought, other than a newer plate, but still an old, grubby, boring car.
I was aiming more specifically at the new Astra 1.4/1.6. I'm guessing yours was a mk3 or 4? My first car was a mk3.5 Astra 1.4 and whilst I wouldn't go as far to say it was a PH car, compared to cars of similar class, age and money was OK. Much nicer than a mk5 Escort, better screwed together than anything French, more reliable than a Rover 200/400 K-Series and I'm not sure if a mk3 Golf was really much better! The mk4 still looked dull but drove surprisingly well (handling tweaked by Lotus?).I have however re-considered my choice and realise that I hadn't really considered any MPVs. My dad bought a new Citroen Xsara Picasso HDi "Desire" back in 2003. Initially I quite liked it. I thought that it was as stylish as a car like that can be (not so sure looking at it again now), it was very spacious and comfortable to ride in. However, when my parents went on holiday, my dad insured me on it so that I could pick them up from the airport. I thought that it might be nice to drive a "new" car for the week instead of my old 205 but my God, was it a horrible thing to drive. None of the controls (steering, accelerator, brake, clutch, gear lever) felt like they were connected to anything and it was quite a challenge to get any performance out of the thing. After 1 day, I went back to driving my 205, picked my parents up from the airport in the 205 and never drove it again!
Also, when I got a job at a Mercedes dealership, the first Mercedes that I drove was one of these:
with a 1.4 petrol and auto box. It was a massive disappointment and in terms of speed, it just seemed to speed up and slow down when it felt like it (the only time that I haven't felt in control of a car)!
I think I will have hit rock bottom PH-wise if I ever own one of these though (Kia Sedona)!
If you have money in the bank and lots of kids then it's not so bad for choice and there are some full-size MPVs that I could probably tolerate (S-MAX, Previa, Sharan) but a Kia MPV? No style, hard plastics, no performance or driving dynamics.
I hate to say it but for that kind of vehicle, the new Sedona does actually look pretty good though!
As much as I dislike the Astra for being so mediocre, I think the three vehicles above are even less "PH"!
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 10th August 17:27
You can't really say any Volvo is not a PH car, any of the Swedish car companies are PH favourites and that is that.
Financed white goods? Well they do serve a purpose, as do the 20 year old Japanese cars that refuse to die.
I pressed the reply button thinking I would slay the Vauxhall Insignia but then again I quite like the VXR version. It's not the most PH car but the fact that Vauxhall released it has to be respected.
Financed white goods? Well they do serve a purpose, as do the 20 year old Japanese cars that refuse to die.
I pressed the reply button thinking I would slay the Vauxhall Insignia but then again I quite like the VXR version. It's not the most PH car but the fact that Vauxhall released it has to be respected.
This -
My wife is learning to drive and this is her car.
A Peugeot 307 1.6S semi-automatic. It has around 110bhp if I remember correctly, 0-62 in post 12 secs, a top speed of about 118mph. I don't know why but it feels as tall as a double decker bus and probably handles like one.
We probably use it more than my BMW E90 so she gets plenty of practice and must have done 1000s miles in the few months we have had it. It actually keeps up with traffic ok on the motorways if I flick it into sport mode.
However, if I had to nominate a least PH car, this would be mine.
My wife is learning to drive and this is her car.
A Peugeot 307 1.6S semi-automatic. It has around 110bhp if I remember correctly, 0-62 in post 12 secs, a top speed of about 118mph. I don't know why but it feels as tall as a double decker bus and probably handles like one.
We probably use it more than my BMW E90 so she gets plenty of practice and must have done 1000s miles in the few months we have had it. It actually keeps up with traffic ok on the motorways if I flick it into sport mode.
However, if I had to nominate a least PH car, this would be mine.
battered said:
The rub is that boring cars make good sheds. A £1000 Corolla will take you on holiday to Europe, provided you take enough caffeine drinks and some entertaining companions to stop you losing the will to live. A £1000 5 series will put you on first name terms with the local AA man before you get to the port.
So a non PH car can't be a shed. Sheds are inherently PH because you have to get involved with them either to make them tolerable to be in or simply to keep them running.
I agree wholeheartedly with this - running a sub-£1000 Corolla/Almera/Avensis as an A-to-B work hack strikes me as a pretty PH-ish thing to do, because at least it demonstrates that the driver is clued up enough about cars to know that, with the slightest but of nous, you don't need to spend multiple thousands if all you want is basic transport. I think that so far as you can say that a car is non-PH, as opposed to the driver, the least PH car is one that is bought not out of any particular passion for cars, or with any real knowledge of them, but because the buyer wants to look like the big I am to the neighbours. On that basis it's probably a lower end diesel model from a German marque that can be had cheaply on a lease, probably white, that has some woefully misplaced 'M' (sorry - '//M'), or AMG badges on it, that ends up on ditchfinders after a year. So a non PH car can't be a shed. Sheds are inherently PH because you have to get involved with them either to make them tolerable to be in or simply to keep them running.
kiseca said:
I can understand what you're saying about the Astra. Back in about 2006 I had a Vectra estate as a hire car for a day. First car I've ever driven that I didn't know nor care what engine it had. It was not bad at anything, it was just so all consumingly dull in every way. Performance was good enough. Steering got you pointing more or less where you wanted to go. The brakes were adequate. The interior was... present. The seat was fine.
It was the Okayest car I've ever driven and I completely hated it for that. I've since passengered in an Insignia and from that point of view at least it appeared that nothing had changed at Vauxhall in the past 9 years.
Clarkson? Is that you? It was the Okayest car I've ever driven and I completely hated it for that. I've since passengered in an Insignia and from that point of view at least it appeared that nothing had changed at Vauxhall in the past 9 years.
Gary C said:
rohrl said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Gary C said:
I would vote for a fiat multipla, what a hideous mess.
Sorry but nooooo.
Edited by Gary C on Monday 17th August 08:08
I've had 3, I'd love a brand new one
I have a 2011 Silver E220CDi Mercedes automatic which is probably up there at the top, but it has done 280k miles in 4years with complete reliability, so it does have some redeeming features.
And I love it.. Plan to keep it until it falls to bits and get the mileage as high as possible.....
Did I mention its silver and diesel and automatic.
And I love it.. Plan to keep it until it falls to bits and get the mileage as high as possible.....
Did I mention its silver and diesel and automatic.
wile7 said:
It won't be popular on here but a basic spec 3 series, Audi A4 or Mercedes E Class. Mass produced, blend into the crowd and unless enhanced with M, ABT or AMG bits aesthetically have become very mundane. The new Ford Cortinas of our day.
Not a lot says I'm not into cars for the purpose of driving than those. Turbodiesel1976 said:
kiseca said:
I can understand what you're saying about the Astra. Back in about 2006 I had a Vectra estate as a hire car for a day. First car I've ever driven that I didn't know nor care what engine it had. It was not bad at anything, it was just so all consumingly dull in every way. Performance was good enough. Steering got you pointing more or less where you wanted to go. The brakes were adequate. The interior was... present. The seat was fine.
It was the Okayest car I've ever driven and I completely hated it for that. I've since passengered in an Insignia and from that point of view at least it appeared that nothing had changed at Vauxhall in the past 9 years.
Clarkson? Is that you? It was the Okayest car I've ever driven and I completely hated it for that. I've since passengered in an Insignia and from that point of view at least it appeared that nothing had changed at Vauxhall in the past 9 years.
DonkeyApple said:
wile7 said:
It won't be popular on here but a basic spec 3 series, Audi A4 or Mercedes E Class. Mass produced, blend into the crowd and unless enhanced with M, ABT or AMG bits aesthetically have become very mundane. The new Ford Cortinas of our day.
Not a lot says I'm not into cars for the purpose of Wile7's post is quite rightly all about aesthetics, not driving. Those cars are indeed very bland aesthetically. However, in terms of driving, whilst the A4 is an understeering heap of boredom, the E class and the 3 series have balanced rear drive chassis and will u/s, o/s or drift neutrally at will, so there's no way they belong anywhere near this thread.
There are some strange nominations going on. As much as I hate the multipla and I would never have the Suzuki wagon thing, at least they have character and are "interesting" (or at least a bit different) because of their looks.
I'm thinking of a car that is not performance orientated, not prestige, not interesting, has no character and not very good to drive. The last newish car I drove that felt like it was developed in the BL era and had no redeeming features was rep spec a Vauxhall Insignia diesel. The steering felt like it was connected to the wheel via a piece of string. OK so it was practical and not a "bad" car in the old fashioned sense of the word but it just lacked anything nice or interesting about it.
I'm thinking of a car that is not performance orientated, not prestige, not interesting, has no character and not very good to drive. The last newish car I drove that felt like it was developed in the BL era and had no redeeming features was rep spec a Vauxhall Insignia diesel. The steering felt like it was connected to the wheel via a piece of string. OK so it was practical and not a "bad" car in the old fashioned sense of the word but it just lacked anything nice or interesting about it.
The 2nd generation Avensis. The automotive equivalent of beige. The aspirational car for people with no aspiration. Doesn't help that I spent 14 months looking at the salesman's one at my first job and it was black over grey in appearance because it went millions of miles between services and thus vomited black smoke constantly (that company was run with a "don't maintain until it breaks, that means you get your moneys worth!" policy. Nearly killed me when the van brakes decided that 55,000 miles between services was enough...)
wile7 said:
^ I like that point of view...
A good barometer of what might not be 'PH' are cars used by the car hire places...Hertz, Sixt etc. Mundane 'do the job' cars that do most things well if you want to get from A to B. But fail to ignite an inner petrol-head passion.
And the weird thing is, the cars that hire companies get are the ones that are the best to drive! I hired a DS3, the 1600 turbo petrol one because I had a flight back from the US that stopped at Heathrow, then carried on to Manchester 6 hours later. There was no way I was sitting at Heathrow for 6 hours so I hired a car and drove home instead, at that time to Sheffield. The next day I took it out to Skegness just using third gear, and it was quite a fun drive trying to make sure you were going quick enough in the corners to stop it stalling, but not too quick that it hit the limiter. Fuel was expensed btwA good barometer of what might not be 'PH' are cars used by the car hire places...Hertz, Sixt etc. Mundane 'do the job' cars that do most things well if you want to get from A to B. But fail to ignite an inner petrol-head passion.
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