RE: Polestar 5 prototype charges in 10 minutes

[ChocolateFrog]

Great but totally irrelevant for me as I'd maybe use it once every 3 years or so.

Can we have 10 mile per kWh cars please? I'd be impressed then.

[GT9]

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing some of the posters on this thread aren't early adopter material.
The difference between early adopter and late adopter is probs 20 years.
If you are in the late adopter group, take a chill pill, sit back and watch it all unfold.
Maybe then, if it's still not to your liking, get on your soapbox.

[LotusOmega375D]

Needs more white paint on the tyres.

[Crudeoink]

dxg said:

And where does it store the energy so that it can do so - a massive capacitor? How how long does it take to charge *that*?

There's no way the grid will be able to supply that...

Most of these high power chargers have local battery storage (in the charger or nearby) and liquid cooled cables. It's been a while since I was in the charger design game. But the last lot I worked on could output the headline figure for about 10-15 mins and would need about 30 mins of charging and or cooling to achieve this. That was best case scenario, with local load balancing and temperature impacting these figures.

[kevinon]

Gary C said:

dxg said:

V8 FOU said:

Assuming the charge point can supply that level of current?

And where does it store the energy so that it can do so - a massive capacitor? How how long does it take to charge *that*?

There's no way the grid will be able to supply that...

Humm

its not even a blip on the grid.

For example a train can pull a ~5000kW draw on the network as they start rolling and that doesn't put the lights out.

the grid can cope.

Now the local distribution network is another matter.

That's a good explanation of the problem areas- kinda like the last mile problem - thanks.

[Gary C]

kevinon said:

Gary C said:

dxg said:

V8 FOU said:

Assuming the charge point can supply that level of current?

And where does it store the energy so that it can do so - a massive capacitor? How how long does it take to charge *that*?

There's no way the grid will be able to supply that...

Humm

its not even a blip on the grid.

For example a train can pull a ~5000kW draw on the network as they start rolling and that doesn't put the lights out.

the grid can cope.

Now the local distribution network is another matter.

That's a good explanation of the problem areas- kinda like the last mile problem - thanks.

That isn't to say the grid doesn't have issues, but its mainly the sources of generation have moved from their traditional locations while the sites of consumption haven't.

But thats a different issue.

[dvs_dave]

biggbn said:

But can it tow a horsebox for 700 miles without stopping up a hill in minus 16 degree weather with the heater, radio, heated seats and steering wheel on max. If it can't, it's no bloody good to me. No bloody good I tell ya...

It’s Alpacas not horses, whilst also broadcasting your internet browsing history, location, speed and banking details to the government and HMRC. And because they don’t suit that particular use case very well, they’re subsequently useless to everyone so should be scrapped immediately! Grrrrr

[Cupid-stunt]

Alpitronic are releasing 500kW chargers and then there are truck chargers that are meant to be 1MW.
They WILL be able to have a higher charge rate - the problem is network capacity .... and that is an issue that govt needs to oversee.

It's knowing that when caught short, the time needed to recharge / fuel up is on par with ICE - surely that is a good thing?

Good looking car to boot....

[Terminator X]

sidesauce said:

That's one in the eye for the argument that EVs take too long to charge. Let's see what they'll complain about next...

How on earth will we be able to walk the dog, let the kids play for 2hrs and also eat a 3 course lunch

TX.

[ChocolateFrog]

LotusOmega375D said:

Needs more white paint on the tyres.

Why is the charge port a foot off the ground too. Back is bad enough as it is.

[ChocolateFrog]

Cupid-stunt said:

Alpitronic are releasing 500kW chargers and then there are truck chargers that are meant to be 1MW.
They WILL be able to have a higher charge rate - the problem is network capacity .... and that is an issue that govt needs to oversee.

It's knowing that when caught short, the time needed to recharge / fuel up is on par with ICE - surely that is a good thing?

Good looking car to boot....

If capacity is such an issue why does Octopus give me atleast 8hrs a day of almost free electric?

[fatboy b]

Firebobby said:

sidesauce said:

That's one in the eye for the argument that EVs take too long to charge. Let's see what they'll complain about next...

Still 3 times slower than I can put 300 miles of range in my beemer

And your fill up time will be the same every time. That 10 min EV charge is the best it can achieve. Reality says it’ll 2x-3x more than that.

Seems that all EV stats are based around the maximum it can get rather than a real-world average. Whereas I didn’t buy an f-type based on the maximum range it might get, but I get the convenience of a 3 min recharge every 250* miles or so.

• real work average and not the sometimes stated 380.

[Cupid-stunt]

ChocolateFrog said:

Cupid-stunt said:

Alpitronic are releasing 500kW chargers and then there are truck chargers that are meant to be 1MW.
They WILL be able to have a higher charge rate - the problem is network capacity .... and that is an issue that govt needs to oversee.

It's knowing that when caught short, the time needed to recharge / fuel up is on par with ICE - surely that is a good thing?

Good looking car to boot....

If capacity is such an issue why does Octopus give me atleast 8hrs a day of almost free electric?

How much energy does your car pull off the grid per hour?
Multiply that many many fold, add in the unknown of how much it will be utilised/ add in the cost to upgrade.
That's if there is a suitable space that people will use.

[Gary C]

Cupid-stunt said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Cupid-stunt said:

Alpitronic are releasing 500kW chargers and then there are truck chargers that are meant to be 1MW.
They WILL be able to have a higher charge rate - the problem is network capacity .... and that is an issue that govt needs to oversee.

It's knowing that when caught short, the time needed to recharge / fuel up is on par with ICE - surely that is a good thing?

Good looking car to boot....

If capacity is such an issue why does Octopus give me atleast 8hrs a day of almost free electric?

How much energy does your car pull off the grid per hour?
Multiply that many many fold, add in the unknown of how much it will be utilised/ add in the cost to upgrade.
That's if there is a suitable space that people will use.

I did a calculation on the energy requirements of replacing all cars with EV's. Generation can easily cope with all the cars in the UK being EV's but charging would have to be mainly done overnight and it will need to be moderated (ie everyone cant just plug in 30 million cars at 18:00 and charge at the max rate)

Lets face it, probably 95% of cars in a total EV scenario would be charged overnight.

Now, throw in electric central heating and hot water and things get more interesting.

[Tycho]

GT9 said:

MRMNB said:

GT9 said:

If you approach this topic with assumptions like this you are bound to feel threatened by it.
In any case, batteries (dead or otherwise) have intrinsic value in their materials.
This is the upshot of not burning stuff.
You can recycle it.

I can't recycle it and it doesn't look like manufacturers want anyone to try either

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/a...

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/359993/electric...

Once again, assumptions.
Sure, we can assume nothing will ever improve, carbon footprints will remain forever the same as they were in 2018, the grid will never improve, etc.
Alternatively, maybe look at what is in pipeline regarding battery recycling...
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybri...
https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/news/recyc...
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/deta...
https://www.fortum.com/services/battery-recycling
https://www.redwoodmaterials.com

You were also talking about recycling batteries but the links posted were about repairing damaged ones so not even the same question.

FMOB said:

Firebobby said:

sidesauce said:

That's one in the eye for the argument that EVs take too long to charge. Let's see what they'll complain about next...

Still 3 times slower than I can put 300 miles of range in my beemer

The whole re-fueling infrastructure for an ice vehicle has been honed and fine tuned for a hundred years, EV's as we recognise them today have been around for what 5 years, not exactly comparing eggs with eggs.

There seem to be an awful lot of people who are on such a tight schedule that 15 minutes extra over a 5 min fuel fill up over a 4 hour journey will make a massive difference to their lives. TBH, when I have stopped to charge on a motorway I frequently get a notification that the car has finished charging before I have chance to take a leak and grab an overpriced coffee. I need a loo break every 150-200 miles and having an EV makes absolutely no impact on that at all. I appreciate that some people either don't want an EV or it won't fit with their lifestyle which is fine, they have another 10 years to enjoy an ICE and EV tech will have massively improved by then.

Charging is going in the right direction because if it only takes 10 mins then the turnover will be greater and people without home charging will be able to do it eventually at Tesco when it filters down. Asda already have a deal with Tesla to provide superchargers at it's locations which will allow people to get a full charge while shopping.

[GT9]

Gary C said:

Cupid-stunt said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Cupid-stunt said:

Alpitronic are releasing 500kW chargers and then there are truck chargers that are meant to be 1MW.
They WILL be able to have a higher charge rate - the problem is network capacity .... and that is an issue that govt needs to oversee.

It's knowing that when caught short, the time needed to recharge / fuel up is on par with ICE - surely that is a good thing?

Good looking car to boot....

If capacity is such an issue why does Octopus give me atleast 8hrs a day of almost free electric?

How much energy does your car pull off the grid per hour?
Multiply that many many fold, add in the unknown of how much it will be utilised/ add in the cost to upgrade.
That's if there is a suitable space that people will use.

I did a calculation on the energy requirements of replacing all cars with EV's. Generation can easily cope with all the cars in the UK being EV's but charging would have to be mainly done overnight and it will need to be moderated (ie everyone cant just plug in 30 million cars at 18:00 and charge at the max rate)

Lets face it, probably 95% of cars in a total EV scenario would be charged overnight.

Now, throw in electric central heating and hot water and things get more interesting.

It's a pretty simple (conservative) rule of thumb, 1 million EVs adds 1% average load to the existing demand on the grid.
The fact that EVs can average 3 miles per kWh is the crucial element in all of this.
However, the rate of increase of electric cars needs to be factored against the planned offshore (and onshore) wind capacity increases.
On current forecasts, EVs will never make up more than about 10-15% of overall demand.
As you say, heat pumps and commercial/industrial electrification are likely to be just as demanding, even more so.

[GT9]

Tycho said:

You were also talking about recycling batteries but the links posted were about repairing damaged ones so not even the same question.

Yeah, I was trying to un-conflate the repair/recycling conflation they had made.

[barrycoupe]

When are positions going to realise that EV’s are not the answer. Polestar have created something the charging network will never ever be able to cope. Not without having thousands and thousands of wind power generators ruining our environment. EV ‘s are too heavy, and this is a blind alley we are being sent down. ICE’s with sustainable fuel has to be a better alternative. Batteries, never.

[ChocolateFrog]

Gary C said:

Cupid-stunt said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Cupid-stunt said:

Alpitronic are releasing 500kW chargers and then there are truck chargers that are meant to be 1MW.
They WILL be able to have a higher charge rate - the problem is network capacity .... and that is an issue that govt needs to oversee.

It's knowing that when caught short, the time needed to recharge / fuel up is on par with ICE - surely that is a good thing?

Good looking car to boot....

If capacity is such an issue why does Octopus give me atleast 8hrs a day of almost free electric?

How much energy does your car pull off the grid per hour?
Multiply that many many fold, add in the unknown of how much it will be utilised/ add in the cost to upgrade.
That's if there is a suitable space that people will use.

I did a calculation on the energy requirements of replacing all cars with EV's. Generation can easily cope with all the cars in the UK being EV's but charging would have to be mainly done overnight and it will need to be moderated (ie everyone cant just plug in 30 million cars at 18:00 and charge at the max rate)

Lets face it, probably 95% of cars in a total EV scenario would be charged overnight.

Now, throw in electric central heating and hot water and things get more interesting.

Load balancing already seems pretty clever. My charger cycles on and off in 15 minute increments, I've even had cheap rate electric at 1800 on a weekday. It's never once failed to charge. I just plug it in and let Octopus/Ohme get on with it.

One of those things that just works.

[SDK]

barrycoupe said:

When are positions going to realise that EV’s are not the answer. Polestar have created something the charging network will never ever be able to cope. Not without having thousands and thousands of wind power generators ruining our environment. EV ‘s are too heavy, and this is a blind alley we are being sent down. ICE’s with sustainable fuel has to be a better alternative. Batteries, never.

Sustainable fuel is very expensive to produce & transport, so it will be always be very costly for the end user. The world demands a lot of fuel and sustainable fuel production won't ever meet even 10% of just one countries demand.

Finally - Vehicles using it still emit tailpipe pollution