Help-valve through cylinder after 400miles....

[Equinox]

Biker's Nemesis said:

Charming

Whats that then?

[Ribol]

AlastairM said:

the car was advertised @ XXXXX and when i called i natrually asked what his bottom line was. It was then that he said he would do it for XXXXX and said that it would be without a warranty but did not say or tell me what that implied to myself as a consumer. Yes, perhaps i was a little naive but looking back on it he should have clearly told me what the options were.

But surely this is not a trade sale anyway? It is a retail sale where you opted to buy without the tack on extra warranty that covers a little more than the consumer laws to get the price down.
You bought a car which should be up to a certain standard - good for 1000s of miles and reasonable period of time. There is a lot of bad luck and timing here but I would work something out with the dealer and not expect to be out of pocket(but maybe a little inconvenienced in the spirit of playing the game). After only 400 miles You could probably back it completely if you really want out.

[hodgson 100]

Retail..... Trade

Retail = consumer that means they buy the car to use , trade = trader that means buy to sell i.e. trade.

If a retail customer agrees to trade a car in to a dealer and the dealer agrees a price on the trade in value, then that car becomes the dealers problem that means any faults are now the dealers problem.

The dealer IS a trader and as far as I know the dealer/trader can not pursue the ex-owner of a traded in car for any faults or defects that that car might have, if you buy the car as a trader/dealer you have the same rights as a trader/dealer.

[Ribol]

Read above, that is hardly a trade sale?

[Equinox]

A company / garage is a trader

A sole person / buy to sell / kerbside motor's or as someone i know is a Private trader, may have a couple of cars that he's bought, run about in for a few weeks then sell on through the Auto trader / eBay or PH Classifieds.

Are these both traders or is the second retail!! Do you need to be a registered business / vat registered to be classed as a trader!!

Equinox

Edited by Equinox on Thursday 8th February 23:37

[Ribol]

The Op is obviously not a trader or he would not be on here for advice, surely that is all that matters here?
The car was bought retail with a discount for not having the optional warranty.

[Equinox]

Ribol said:

The Op is obviously not a trader or he would not be on here for advice, surely that is all that matters here?
The car was bought retail with a discount for not having the optional warranty.

Or was it.....

Suppose tomorrow will bring further information on the situation.

Equinox

[Mr Whippy]

Balmoral Green said:

Your statutory rights are just that, statutory, they cannot be waived or removed, whether a disclaimer such as 'trade sale, sold as seen, no warranty given or implied' is written into the contract or not.

If a dealer sells a car cheap to a MOP, its still retail, not trade, even if both parties have agreed it is a trade sale at trade money, and written it on the contract, it still isnt.

Silly trader that will accept it then

As said many posts above, why do they do it then? I wonder if they then take the risk that you won't realise along with them getting a good price maybe above their auction value there and then...

Dave

[Ribol]

Equinox said:

Ribol said:

The Op is obviously not a trader or he would not be on here for advice, surely that is all that matters here?
The car was bought retail with a discount for not having the optional warranty.

Or was it.....

Lets put it this way, if you buy cars "trade", you check them out, bid, buy. Anything after that is down to you, no matter what the cost.
If you buy over the phone on someone's description it would depend on how well you know the trader but either way it could be worked out.

I suspect the OP is not in the motor trade(?), different rules apply.

[hodgson 100]

If he bought the trade he has bought it as a trader with traders rights, if he bought it retail he will have bought it as a consumer with consumers statutory rights. The sale of goods act is for retail consumers, a trader is not a retail consumer if you bought the car trade you bought it as a tarder with all the benefits and drawbacks.

[ATG]

hodgson 100 said:

If he bought the trade he has bought it as a trader with traders rights, if he bought it retail he will have bought it as a consumer with consumers statutory rights. The sale of goods act is for retail consumers, a trader is not a retail consumer if you bought the car trade you bought it as a tarder with all the benefits and drawbacks.

So you're saying if a retail customer walks in the door and says "treat me like a trader", then he becomes a trader even though he is not a trader? Wrong. He's still a consumer buying from a trader, and he therefore still gets his statutory rights under the sale of goods act.

[Rob-C]

Anyone know exactly what his statutory rights would actually be under the sale of goods act?

As far as I can see, the car was fit for purpose at the moment he drove it away. How would one prove (to the satisfaction of a court) that the valve that failed was faulty at the time of the sale?

Would his rights definitely extend to repair of the damage caused as a consequence of the broken valve? Or could the seller discharge his responsibility under the act, simply by posting him a replacement valve in a jiffy bag!?

[ATG]

That's got to be the better question to ask. I would guess it boils down to how the car was described. If the dealer said "bag of spanners, will blow up if it see 30mph", then the "purpose" bit of "fit for purpose" wouldn't include trying to go at 40mph. If however the dealer said "full XXX service history, mint, will go for thousands of miles" and the car blatantly failed to do it when driven in a reasonable manner, then it wouldn't seem to have been "fit for purpose" to me. What happens if the dealer didn't make any particular claims for the car one way or the other? I'd expect it would then to come down to a judgement of what the consumer could reasonably expect.

[rallycross]

to the people on this thread who think its fine to buy a car on trade terms (ie at a vastly reduced price) and then if/when something goes wrong its somehow ok to go running back to the dealer and expect to be treated like a retail customer, clearly you are living in the land of make believe.

I do hope the garage offer to help you sort this problem out, but its a lesson learned to anyone, buy a car as a TRADE SALE at your own risk.

No doubt some of you will quote (yet again) sale of goods act etc - but when I buy a car on trade terms I know what to expect. Its a risk you take, and buying a complex old thing like an S8 has a large risk associated with it.

[ALawson]

Does the status of the registration document have any bearing on this? If the Audi was re-registed to the new owner and not a dealer/trader then by defult it is a normal purchase?

[equinox]

rallycross said:

to the people on this thread who think its fine to buy a car on trade terms (ie at a vastly reduced price) and then if/when something goes wrong its somehow ok to go running back to the dealer and expect to be treated like a retail customer, clearly you are living in the land of make believe.

I do hope the garage offer to help you sort this problem out, but its a lesson learned to anyone, buy a car as a TRADE SALE at your own risk.

No doubt some of you will quote (yet again) sale of goods act etc - but when I buy a car on trade terms I know what to expect. Its a risk you take, and buying a complex old thing like an S8 has a large risk associated with it.

Yes

Equinox

[smilerbaker]

equinox said:

rallycross said:

to the people on this thread who think its fine to buy a car on trade terms (ie at a vastly reduced price) and then if/when something goes wrong its somehow ok to go running back to the dealer and expect to be treated like a retail customer, clearly you are living in the land of make believe.

I do hope the garage offer to help you sort this problem out, but its a lesson learned to anyone, buy a car as a TRADE SALE at your own risk.

No doubt some of you will quote (yet again) sale of goods act etc - but when I buy a car on trade terms I know what to expect. Its a risk you take, and buying a complex old thing like an S8 has a large risk associated with it.

Yes

Equinox

Fraid I have to agree to, regardless of what the law states.

[redgriff500]

redgriff500 said:

"When you buy as a CONSUMER from a motor trader"

By accepting the terms 'Trade Sale' he accepts that he bought it on Trade terms and it not a comsumer but a trader.

HOWEVER - judges tend to take a dim view on trade outlets obviously selling to private punters in this way...

BUT at the same time tha kind of fault you describe is not one the trader could have reasonably known about...

I'd guess 50 / 50 is fair.

[ATG]

redgriff500 said:

By accepting the terms 'Trade Sale' he accepts that he bought it on Trade terms and it not a comsumer but a trader.

According to Tradings Standards, this bit is simply wrong.

[redgriff500]

No it isn't you are either a TRADER or a CONSUMER you cannot be both.

In fact the garage could theorectically sue him for misrepresentation as he signed saying he was a trader when he wasn't.

If you are correct then Auction houses couldn't run... as they offer NO warrenty, nor in many cases even a test drive... yet they do BECAUSE THEY ARE TRADE ONLY !

Please paste the relevent part where the words are 'Trader' rather than 'consumer'

Edited by redgriff500 on Friday 9th February 13:11