Top Gear to do 'BL' special in new Series

[Balmoral Green]

ettore said:

I think it`s going a bit far if we start building a revisionist case for the Princess.

On the contrary, I think as far as actual product is concerned, we could do with revising many of our views across the whole BL model range, not just the Princess.

[ettore]

Balmoral Green said:

ettore said:

I think it`s going a bit far if we start building a revisionist case for the Princess.

On the contrary, I think as far as actual product is concerned, we could do with revising many of our views across the whole BL model range, not just the Princess.

Fair enough, do you want to start?!

[jatinder]

I know those car were shit ( I remember that an owner down the road, when I was younger, had two of them, one for running and one for spare parts)

They should have chosen a rusty heap rather than a pristine example.

[y2blade]

looop said:

Its only rare because its crap.

Kill it.

+1

kill the piece of shite

[Balmoral Green]

ettore said:

Balmoral Green said:

ettore said:

I think it`s going a bit far if we start building a revisionist case for the Princess.

On the contrary, I think as far as actual product is concerned, we could do with revising many of our views across the whole BL model range, not just the Princess.

Fair enough, do you want to start?!

I'm just about to, down the pub at our regular Midlands PH meet. We have had quite a few good debates about BL/AR product in the past. Usually it's me, the Prof, and Andymadmak, talking about actual experiences and comparisons of the cars based on covering many thousands of miles in them (and their contemporaries) - versus - folks who weren't even born, but their dad said uncle Pete knew someone down the pub who had one, or was it a Vauxhall? anyway, it rusted.

Will catch up with this thread later

[Futuramic]

Sorry 215 Cuin, but your Granada facts are wrong. The Ford Granada has always been available with a V6, the Mk1 had the 2.5 (oh so rare) or 3.0 litre Essex lump mated to a four speed manual or slushbox. The coupe was auto only as it was considered to be the range topper, like the Vauxhall Viceroy.

The mk2 had two V6 options. The first was the 2.3 also fitted into the MkV Granada Ghia. This engine was gutless and thirsty so very few were ever made. I think it was a way for teh badge snobs to get more cylinders than the Joneses. Next came the proper motor, the 2.8 Cologne V6. This was supplied in either carburettor or 150-odd bhp fuel injected guises and drove the wheels again through a manual or slushbox. The ultimate Mk2 therefore is a 2.8i Ghia X-pack manual in Strato silver with the fog and spot lights. Never fails to reduce a true Essex boy to tears.

Make way for the Mk3! Aggression is out and fat Sierras are in! Fortunately though a new V6 reared its head, this time displacing 2.9 litres. More power - and a new gearbox with 5 speeds. Most ordered were automatic sadly. The 4wd option was only available with the manual gearbox and is the easiest way to get a non-slush Mk3 Granada, although 2wd versions existed. Of course the Cosworth came along later, this engine was to be used in the Scorpio.

There you have it, a brief history of V6 Granadas.

Anyway I sincerely hope they don't destroy that Princess, something dull will just take its place if they do.

[Beyond Rational]

http://www.princessandambassador.org.uk/Forsale.ht...

Looks like it had been for sale for a while

[Balmoral Green]

Futuramic said:

Stuff that I was going to say, but couldn't be arsed

MKI and MKII Grannys rock! I spent a lot of time in an '81 2.8i Ghia auto X pack in two tone green. Would rather have an SD1 though...or would I ?

Edited by Balmoral Green on Tuesday 14th August 18:29

[OctaneBooster]

ettore said:

215cu said:

Balmoral Green said:

I find it appalling that so many people say the cars were crap. Based on what? Sure, there were terrible build quality issues at the time, due to all the industrial relations strife. But in design and engineering terms the cars were most definately not crap. Take your heads out of your arses and stop perpetuating the urban myth about BL that is as erroneous as the faked moon landings. Compared to its contemporaries, you will find that it was no crapper than they were, and also had much to commend it. The 2200HLS auto was an especially good comfy and spacious wafter.

Yes, very easy to forget that the Princess had something that not many cars (if any at all) had. Full Moulton air suspension.

As for the contemporaries, I give you....

Vauxhall Viceroy
Renault 20TS
Chrysler 180
Alfa Romeo Guiletta
Lancia Beta
Citroen CX

Only the Granada Mk2, Saab 99, Volvo 244 and Audi 100 would arguably acquit themselves better, the latter three being far more expensive than the Princess. As for the Granada, it was only ever a 4-banger in the UK and didn't have the 6-cylinders of the Princess.

Alfa Romeo Guiletta
Lancia Beta
Citroen CX


You`re suggesting these were worse than the Princess?

I say save the car but I think it`s going a bit far if we start building a revisionist case for the Princess. Much of BL`s woes were linked to appalling quality (IR) issues but the rest were linked to crap product. Much of what was good seems to me to have been inherited from the constituent parts and survived despite rather than because of BL.

I wouldn't underrate the Renault either, although not a sporty drive it had a ride quality that would put most moderns to shame and achieved near Citroen levels by conventional means. The toys count was amazingly high for a mid/late 70's car and the two litre engine had amazing torque too. Pity they rusted so badly. The later ones were much better, but the useful hatch meant most of them ended their days as mobile builders' skips. I used to regularly borrow my dad's 20tl, 20ts and later 25gts.

[Balmoral Green]

TBH, I thought that was an odd list of cars to be considered contemporaries of the Princess. I was thinking more of the home grown stuff that made up 75% of the TIV.

[MetroLee]

Don't forget that most of the Princess's rivals that were mentioned above have mainly rotted away. I'm not saying that the majority Princess's haven't, it's just that more were sold. As 'Buy British' was the way to go back then. Shame people don't think the same these days.

[jackpearson]

1. It's brown {or is it rust?)

2. its just plain shiit

fair enough point

[MetroLee]

If you don't like it then (As said in a previous post) do not contribute to the thread.

[moleamol]

MetroLee said:

If you don't like it then (As said in a previous post) do not contribute to the thread.

That's not really how internet forums work I'm afraid.

[MetroLee]

I know it is'nt. I suppose you can't help some people and their opinions.

For all those who don't know anything about the wonderful Wedge then take a look here.

http://www.leylandprincess.co.uk 

Edited by MetroLee on Tuesday 14th August 20:16

[Fittster]

215cu said:

Citroen CX

According to one of the classic car mags only 9 CX GTIs left running in the UK.

[drivin_me_nuts]

Keep it, show it to design students and those with a passion for beautiful cars. Show it in the context of what not to do with lines and form. Some cars still look as fresh and as beautiful as the day they were penned. Some are inspirational, some are the stuff of dreams. This was not. But it should be kept as a reminded of how bad it really got.

Sometimes objects should be preserved, if only to remind us of how far we have come since those dark dark days before CAD.

Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Tuesday 14th August 20:22

[stephen300o]

Fittster said:

215cu said:

Citroen CX

According to one of the classic car mags only 9 CX GTIs left running in the UK.

How many GS's?, my dad used to have one, so knackered after 30K miles he had to scrap it.

[Lord Benjo]

Irrespective of the views on the Princess, I do find it suprising that there are so many of you on this forum that support the (supposed) destruction of this car. The Princess is (from the picture) a vgc low mileage vehicle that may, one day, attain minor classic status. I recall these cars from my childhood and remember the white, orange, and (yes) brown examples that our next door neighbour had in succession. Surely advocating the demise of any car that has been cherished and looked after goes against the very essence of what PH is about. Ok, so we all have our preferred marques and opinions on what makes a good car and what does not (and that is what makes this site the success that it is because there are so many views). But at then end of the day we should be promoting the preservation of any car that is as old as this Princess, and not the stupid rating grabbing efforts of a TV show.

[DennisTheMenace]

Even though the car is a pile of shite it should not be wrecked when there are so few on the road , its lasted this long give the thing some credit , wheres all the old BMW/audi/vw's ?
It may be shit in most peoples eyes on here but i done a long trip in one when i 1st passed my driving test and it was the best way to waft from one end of this country to the other , such a comfy car . and no it never broke down.