RE: PH Zeroes: Mitsubishi 3000GT
Discussion
cptsideways said:
Negative Creep said:
The writer said:
In contrast, the Japanese have only recently started to shift from a position of combining German-style engineering arrogance with built-in obsolescence. No Japanese cars of this, or as far as I can see any, era were ever built with home maintenance in mind.
Sorry but this is rubbish. Japanese cars are built in a far more 'logical' way than most European cars. With them you get the impression the designers didn't just think about how it would go together, but how it would come apart again.The main crux of the argument is that it's rubbish because it will break and cost a lot to fix. So then would that make Alfas and Ferraris rubbish as well?
Edited by Negative Creep on Thursday 19th February 14:45
tonym911 said:
GTO Pete said:
tonym911 said:
GTO Pete said:
there are a fair few other bits that are wrong too but i thought as someone who owns a GTO it would appear childish to start picking at every wrong part of the artical.
Seriously, feel free, I'm ugly enough to take it! You'd be performing a public service. A bit of education never hurt anybody.ARTICAL- With between 280bhp and 320bhp, depending on who you believed
The European 3000GT came with different turbos to the GTO, hence the different figures.
ARTICAL- It was also quite mad. Apart from its 1.7-ton bulk and girth, the 3000GT was absolutely loaded with stuff that looked more than capable of breaking down. Mitsubishi seemed to realise this itself fairly early on, quietly carrying out a de-contenting programme through much of the early ‘90s in order to ‘disappear’ some of the dafter stuff. By the mid-‘90s the ECS and Active Aero package had gone, as had the pop-up headlamps, a concept which in all of motoring history has never really worked for anybody.
I wouldnt say that is true- they gave the car the major change to fixed lights in 93 but kept the active aero and suspension until 95-96 when they restyled the car- the same kind of thing that mazda did with the rx-7, toyota did with the mkiv supra (face lifted f&r lights and later vvti), honda did with the nsx and nissan did with however many versions it had of the R33 gtr. it was purely to keep the car fresh. They did have the MR version of the GTO in 94-95 which got rid of all the crap like active suspension and aeros, but also offered it as an option so some cars still have it.
ARTICAL- When faults occur on any oldish car, as they invariably do, they’re a pain. On a 3000GT they’re awkward, expensive, ruinous, or all three. Suspension struts and steering racks disintegrate, pulleys whirl and whizz off, gaiters perish, belts snap. New clutch, sir? Certainly, that will be One Thousand Pounds.
Ive been on the GTO scene for about 5 years now and you hardley ever hear of stuff like this going- everything goes at some point like every other car on earth and yes it is akward to work on, but if looked after you wont hardley be working on it! as for the new clucth that can be done for way less then a grand depending on what clutch you want.
ARTICAL- ECU- The one for the ABS, for example, is located in the front inner wing. To get at it, all you have to do is strip out the wheel, suspension, arch lining and front wing. Hmm
As I said before, wrong! Its behind the pannel next to one the rear speakers.
ARTICAL- Those active spoilers weren’t expected to fail – well, not within the warranty period, anyway – but of course they will eventually do exactly that. Fortunately, mending the microswitched, plastic-geared motors is a simple matter of a few hours’ work with a small selection of surgeon’s instruments, some emery paper, an electron microscope and an industrial laser.
The micro switches do go in the rear spolier, not often, but again what can you expect on a 20 year old car! £20 or less fixes them and the front aero mech only jams if it hasnt been looked after and buy that I mean a clean off and grease every few years.
Artical- Don’t expect much help from your Mitsubishi dealer either, unless they’ve got an Old Bert type in the workshop who remembers them. Often as not, a Mitsubishi man in a suit will simply outsource you and your inconvenient problem, expensively.
Not true, I own a GTO not a 3000gt and even so every dealer who ive ever asked for parts has helped out and members of the owners club even have extended warrenty work done with no problems - weather or not you would want anyone from a Mitsi garage working on your car or not is a different matter!
ARTICAL- just 400bhp will put a stock GT bottom end in jeopardy. Even un-tuned turbo engines have a habit of blowing off hoses at inopportune moments. Blowing off is never nice, especially in mixed company, but it’s especially unwelcome on a GT because there are just so many hoses under that bonnet. Finding a blown-off one can be a long job.
The stock bottem end can take more then 400bhp, i know of cars that are running over 500 and have been for quiet some time, again it all depends on how well the car has been treated and what kind of miles its done. The pipes blowing off is only ever one pipe and thats the plastic Y pipe that goes on the t.b (it is a crap design), if any of the others goes its because of whoever was the last person to touch them! even a 20quid ebay P.O.S alloy y pipe can stop that happening.
ARTICAL- Legend has it that Mitsubishi made a convertible version for one year only, from ’95 to ’96. That must have had some really serious problems to have suffered such an early demise, but if nothing else it must have some rarity value. You’ll be lucky to find one of them
The 3000gt spyder was made only in america- it had a folding hardtop roof and had a list price of about $65k (ive seen an originl order sheet with a $69k total!) and lets face it, who is going to spend that! having said that there is still a good market for these over there.
ARTICAL- getting on for £45k by the end of production in 2001
Production ended in 99, which iirc was the same as the rx7 and mkiv supra wasnt it? Jap emmissions regs where changed- that killed them off.
Im not one of these owners who get the hump when people say that the 3000GT/GTO is crap, because in stock form i dont think they are that good or that fast- not when you compare them to the stuff that you should like mkiv Supras and r33 skylines but then the car was ment for cruising- not for thrashing! Its when you tune one, get rid of all the stuff you dont need they start to be rewarding to drive but driving a good one in the first place makes a big difference.
Pete
Edited by GTO Pete on Thursday 19th February 14:40
GTO Pete said:
tonym911 said:
GTO Pete said:
tonym911 said:
GTO Pete said:
there are a fair few other bits that are wrong too but i thought as someone who owns a GTO it would appear childish to start picking at every wrong part of the artical.
Seriously, feel free, I'm ugly enough to take it! You'd be performing a public service. A bit of education never hurt anybody.ARTICAL- With between 280bhp and 320bhp, depending on who you believed
The European 3000GT came with different turbos to the GTO, hence the different figures.
ARTICAL- It was also quite mad. Apart from its 1.7-ton bulk and girth, the 3000GT was absolutely loaded with stuff that looked more than capable of breaking down. Mitsubishi seemed to realise this itself fairly early on, quietly carrying out a de-contenting programme through much of the early ‘90s in order to ‘disappear’ some of the dafter stuff. By the mid-‘90s the ECS and Active Aero package had gone, as had the pop-up headlamps, a concept which in all of motoring history has never really worked for anybody.
I wouldnt say that is true- they gave the car the major change to fixed lights in 93 but kept the active aero and suspension until 95-96 when they restyled the car- the same kind of thing that mazda did with the rx-7, toyota did with the mkiv supra (face lifted f&r lights and later vvti), honda did with the nsx and nissan did with however many versions it had of the R33 gtr. it was purely to keep the car fresh. They did have the MR version of the GTO in 94-95 which got rid of all the crap like active suspension and aeros, but also offered it as an option so some cars still have it.
ARTICAL- When faults occur on any oldish car, as they invariably do, they’re a pain. On a 3000GT they’re awkward, expensive, ruinous, or all three. Suspension struts and steering racks disintegrate, pulleys whirl and whizz off, gaiters perish, belts snap. New clutch, sir? Certainly, that will be One Thousand Pounds.
Ive been on the GTO scene for about 5 years now and you hardley ever hear of stuff like this going- everything goes at some point like every other car on earth and yes it is akward to work on, but if looked after you wont hardley be working on it! as for the new clucth that can be done for way less then a grand depending on what clutch you want.
ARTICAL- ECU- The one for the ABS, for example, is located in the front inner wing. To get at it, all you have to do is strip out the wheel, suspension, arch lining and front wing. Hmm
As I said before, wrong! Its behind the pannel next to one the rear speakers.
ARTICAL- Those active spoilers weren’t expected to fail – well, not within the warranty period, anyway – but of course they will eventually do exactly that. Fortunately, mending the microswitched, plastic-geared motors is a simple matter of a few hours’ work with a small selection of surgeon’s instruments, some emery paper, an electron microscope and an industrial laser.
The micro switches do go in the rear spolier, not often, but again what can you expect on a 20 year old car! £20 or less fixes them and the front aero mech only jams if it hasnt been looked after and buy that I mean a clean off and grease every few years.
Artical- Don’t expect much help from your Mitsubishi dealer either, unless they’ve got an Old Bert type in the workshop who remembers them. Often as not, a Mitsubishi man in a suit will simply outsource you and your inconvenient problem, expensively.
Not true, I own a GTO not a 3000gt and even so every dealer who ive ever asked for parts has helped out and members of the owners club even have extended warrenty work done with no problems - weather or not you would want anyone from a Mitsi garage working on your car or not is a different matter!
ARTICAL- just 400bhp will put a stock GT bottom end in jeopardy. Even un-tuned turbo engines have a habit of blowing off hoses at inopportune moments. Blowing off is never nice, especially in mixed company, but it’s especially unwelcome on a GT because there are just so many hoses under that bonnet. Finding a blown-off one can be a long job.
The stock bottem end can take more then 400bhp, i know of cars that are running over 500 and have been for quiet some time, again it all depends on how well the car has been treated and what kind of miles its done. The pipes blowing off is only ever one pipe and thats the plastic Y pipe that goes on the t.b (it is a crap design), if any of the others goes its because of whoever was the last person to touch them! even a 20quid ebay P.O.S alloy y pipe can stop that happening.
ARTICAL- Legend has it that Mitsubishi made a convertible version for one year only, from ’95 to ’96. That must have had some really serious problems to have suffered such an early demise, but if nothing else it must have some rarity value. You’ll be lucky to find one of them
The 3000gt spyder was made only in america- it had a folding hardtop roof and had a list price of about $65k (ive seen an originl order sheet with a $69k total!) and lets face it, who is going to spend that! having said that there is still a good market for these over there.
ARTICAL- getting on for £45k by the end of production in 2001
Production ended in 99, which iirc was the same as the rx7 and mkiv supra wasnt it? Jap emmissions regs where changed- that killed them off.
Im not one of these owners who get the hump when people say that the 3000GT/GTO is crap, because in stock form i dont think they are that good or that fast- not when you compare them to the stuff that you should like mkiv Supras and r33 skylines but then the car was ment for cruising- not for thrashing! Its when you tune one, get rid of all the stuff you dont need they start to be rewarding to drive but driving a good one in the first place makes a big difference.
Pete
I dont think its a hero or a zero, just a different choice to what people think they should go for. But what the 3000gt/GTO does suffer from is alot of interent bulls
t from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.
t from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.Edited by GTO Pete on Thursday 19th February 15:01
I had one in 1994 for a year. It was the only thing that I could safely drive all year round whilst living in New England (with snow tires on of course) - I once took it 120 miles in a blizzard and it was safe as houses. Never failed to start and never broke down despite one of the worst winters in momory.
However, the steering was very numb and frankly you never had any clue as to available grip (there was a lot). It felt rapid, but you had a hard time believing it had 300bhp as it weighed as much as a small house. Headroom was ridiculously bad (and mine had a sunroof I think) even for a 5ft 7 midget like me !
I had a 968 before that which was much nicer to drive but obviously undrivable in snow !
At the time I also road-tested a Supra and an Rx7. Supra was a proper 928 replacement - fantastically quick and torquey with awesome brakes and RX7 reminded me more of the 968 but much quicker.
Everyone in the US raved about 300ZX as an all around GT at the time - The US had both 2 and 4 seat versions - the former being especially popular.
I almost bought a black Supra in 1995, but back then Toyota wanted $50k USD for a new one and a Porsche 911 (993) was only $10k more...(which is what I bought in the end...).
I still have fond memories of the 'Batmobile' though - The girlies used to love the Blue disco-light interior with its' myriad of buttons !
Jono.
However, the steering was very numb and frankly you never had any clue as to available grip (there was a lot). It felt rapid, but you had a hard time believing it had 300bhp as it weighed as much as a small house. Headroom was ridiculously bad (and mine had a sunroof I think) even for a 5ft 7 midget like me !
I had a 968 before that which was much nicer to drive but obviously undrivable in snow !
At the time I also road-tested a Supra and an Rx7. Supra was a proper 928 replacement - fantastically quick and torquey with awesome brakes and RX7 reminded me more of the 968 but much quicker.
Everyone in the US raved about 300ZX as an all around GT at the time - The US had both 2 and 4 seat versions - the former being especially popular.
I almost bought a black Supra in 1995, but back then Toyota wanted $50k USD for a new one and a Porsche 911 (993) was only $10k more...(which is what I bought in the end...).
I still have fond memories of the 'Batmobile' though - The girlies used to love the Blue disco-light interior with its' myriad of buttons !
Jono.
I absolutely love my 1990 Gto TT.......it has been in a garage since october though haha
IMO the suspension is a little soft and could do with a bit of stiffening. I haven't modified my example apart from some samco hoses but its stock other than that. It is fast and very fun too drive....when it works
IMO the suspension is a little soft and could do with a bit of stiffening. I haven't modified my example apart from some samco hoses but its stock other than that. It is fast and very fun too drive....when it works
GTO Pete said:
I dont think its a hero or a zero, just a different choice to what people think they should go for. But what the 3000gt/GTO does suffer from is alot of interent bullst from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.
What Internet bullst from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.Edited by GTO Pete on Thursday 19th February 15:01
t? This is the first time Ive ever seen the GTO discussed on here. To most ppl it is an obscure irrelevent car.DJC said:
GTO Pete said:
I dont think its a hero or a zero, just a different choice to what people think they should go for. But what the 3000gt/GTO does suffer from is alot of interent bullst from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.
What Internet bullst from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.Edited by GTO Pete on Thursday 19th February 15:01
t? This is the first time Ive ever seen the GTO discussed on here. To most ppl it is an obscure irrelevent car.No need for insults! - Mr Will
Edited by E330 on Thursday 19th February 16:12
Edited by Mr Will on Thursday 19th February 16:22
DJC said:
GTO Pete said:
I dont think its a hero or a zero, just a different choice to what people think they should go for. But what the 3000gt/GTO does suffer from is alot of interent bullst from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.
What Internet bullst from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.Edited by GTO Pete on Thursday 19th February 15:01
t? This is the first time Ive ever seen the GTO discussed on here. To most ppl it is an obscure irrelevent car.This was hilarious reading, has the OP ever actually owned one?
"No Japanese cars of this, or as far as I can see any, era were ever built with home maintenance in mind."
That was the best bit hahahaha!
Plus what's with the beef on pop-up headlights? How do they not work for any manufacturer? Loads of fantastic cars have pop-ups, I love them!!! F355, Esprit, NSX, Lagonda, Countach, Diablo, Muirua, MX5, RX7, MR2 Turbo, AE86. In fact most of the prettiest cars in the world have them.
"No Japanese cars of this, or as far as I can see any, era were ever built with home maintenance in mind."
That was the best bit hahahaha!
Plus what's with the beef on pop-up headlights? How do they not work for any manufacturer? Loads of fantastic cars have pop-ups, I love them!!! F355, Esprit, NSX, Lagonda, Countach, Diablo, Muirua, MX5, RX7, MR2 Turbo, AE86. In fact most of the prettiest cars in the world have them.
Edited by FWD LOL on Thursday 19th February 16:21
FWD LOL said:
This was hilarious reading, has the OP ever actually owned one?
"No Japanese cars of this, or as far as I can see any, era were ever built with home maintenance in mind."
That was the best bit hahahaha!
Sorry to be hignorant, but what's an OP? Is that me? If so, no, I haven't owned one. Luckily, western society does not demand ownership or first-hand experience of something as a pre-requisite for writing about it. Life would be quite dull otherwise. Having said that, I'd be more than happy to go with this ownership qualification idea, but Ollie will have to increase his budget a bit. "No Japanese cars of this, or as far as I can see any, era were ever built with home maintenance in mind."
That was the best bit hahahaha!
Edited by tonym911 on Thursday 19th February 16:33
Then I don't see how it is any different from me writing an article on how crap a 911 is for example, going by the negative things I've read on the internet and never actually having used one? I see no point in effectively reviewing something you have never used, especially when it's negative.
FWD LOL said:
Then I don't see how it is any different from me writing an article on how crap a 911 is for example, going by the negative things I've read on the internet and never actually having used one? I see no point in effectively reviewing something you have never used, especially when it's negative.
Ah well you see, now you're saying 'used', not 'owned'. That's different. As noted earlier, I have 'used' a 3000GT. GTO Pete said:
DJC said:
GTO Pete said:
I dont think its a hero or a zero, just a different choice to what people think they should go for. But what the 3000gt/GTO does suffer from is alot of interent bullst from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.
What Internet bullst from people who dont own or work on them, in the same way rx7's get it for the engine type and 300zx's get it for behing hard to work on and i dont think articals written like this really help.Edited by GTO Pete on Thursday 19th February 15:01
t? This is the first time Ive ever seen the GTO discussed on here. To most ppl it is an obscure irrelevent car.As such on arguably the web's largest "interesting car" general website, how they are percieved in the wider motoring world gives a more accurate idea. And what do we find? That by and large the wider motoring world regards them as an obscure irrelevent 90s GT that wasnt very good and remembers Autocar's initial comments that said they were too heavy and dull to drive and frankly they were out-PR'd by the Supra, NSX, Skyline and RX7 which contributed to them being obscure and irrelevent.
The argument as to whether it is a hero or zero then is almost equally irrelevent despite whether some owners like them or not. The debate was settled to the wider car enthusiast after Autocar's initial assessment and then nailed shut during the late 90s/early 00s by the rise of the Supra, NSX, Skyline and RX7. Its not so much a hero or zero as ignored. Which I suppose ultimately means it was a zero.
My only issue with the original article is with regards to the 300ZX. I always thought it was a fairly successful model, it had and still has a good rep and I must admit Ive always rather fancied one!
tonym911 said:
FWD LOL said:
Then I don't see how it is any different from me writing an article on how crap a 911 is for example, going by the negative things I've read on the internet and never actually having used one? I see no point in effectively reviewing something you have never used, especially when it's negative.
Ah well you see, now you're saying 'used', not 'owned'. That's different. As noted earlier, I have 'used' a 3000GT. Negative Creep said:
The main crux of the argument is that it's rubbish because it will break and cost a lot to fix. So then would that make Alfas and Ferraris rubbish as well?
Alfas and Ferraris ARE rubbish, though! Ferraris being even worse because as well as being rubbish they are likely to cost a bomb to fix!Doesn't mean you/I/we don't want one!
Sadly, though, the GTO has never done it for me.
[/quote]
But how long did you spend 'using' it- ive moved a R8 around the block and into a car park space once, doesnt mean ive driven it enough to say anything about it!
[/quote]
I ate an oyster once. It took me about a second to realise I'd never eat another one. Not very long, admittedly, but still long enough to form an opinion. I bet, secretly, you formed one on the R8, even on such short acquaintance. Go on! You know you did!! (I'm trying to put a smiley icon on here but it won't have it!).
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