IOM TT Lap time - could a car beat it?
Discussion
Oh Jesus not this again - we get it every year.
A car would be faster, based on the simple fact that the side-cars are more car than bike, getting on for two and half times the weight of a superbike, yet have the same engine and still post a lap time only 15mph down. Add an extra wheel, remove the passenger and increase the BHP and you'd smash the lap time.
A car would be faster, based on the simple fact that the side-cars are more car than bike, getting on for two and half times the weight of a superbike, yet have the same engine and still post a lap time only 15mph down. Add an extra wheel, remove the passenger and increase the BHP and you'd smash the lap time.
Dimski said:
Dunk76 said:
As someone said, much of the TT is flat out - which would inherently favour a bike... a 200mph car with sufficient downforce would require a lot of power - at the expense of agility and slow corner traction.
A lot of the TT course is very narrow, which again favours bikes - some of the stuff that the bikes straight line would represent significant corners to a car.
I'd still put money on the bike.
But, are the narrow sections including change of directions?A lot of the TT course is very narrow, which again favours bikes - some of the stuff that the bikes straight line would represent significant corners to a car.
I'd still put money on the bike.
The Autocar Cadwell park video, Bike vs GTR say that the two areas where the car had an advantage are chicanes (+ alpine loop) and braking.
So my logic is that straight, or single direction narrow bits will favour the bike, a narrow section with a few changes in it may favour the car.
My moneys on the car. But, are we making a fair comparison? Are the IOM TT bikes not race bikes? What about road vs road?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtTtXbbvKqY&fea...
From 1.50 onwards there's a long section where the bike is between 130 and 170mph, a lot of it is a just a simple lift and flick on a bike. Whereas a car with sufficient downforce and suspension to corner/stable at 170mph like the bike would be all over the place on those roads.
A road going bike is far closer to it's IOM race variant than most road cars are to their racing versions (Grp N excluded), so it's a moot point.
BarnatosGhost said:
but what length of road do you need to get a loony lotus to 170? A lot more than to get a bike there.
Exiting a corner at 80, the bikes are up to 150 just a few hundred yards later. And i think that is where they have cars pegged. Their mid- to high-speed acceleration is simply devastating.
not as long as you think, yes, probably not as fast as a bike, but far from slow.Exiting a corner at 80, the bikes are up to 150 just a few hundred yards later. And i think that is where they have cars pegged. Their mid- to high-speed acceleration is simply devastating.
for example:
http://www.vimeo.com/7770389
less than ideal conditions, doing 0-140 in ~12 sec's
BarnatosGhost said:
Dimski said:
Are the IOM TT bikes not race bikes? What about road vs road?
they are warmed up, but basically pretty similar to stock bikes you or i can buy. Comparing them to a single-purpose single-seater open-wheeled racing cars wouldn't be fair.Conian said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Dimski said:
Are the IOM TT bikes not race bikes? What about road vs road?
they are warmed up, but basically pretty similar to stock bikes you or i can buy. Comparing them to a single-purpose single-seater open-wheeled racing cars wouldn't be fair.Scuffers said:
BarnatosGhost said:
but what length of road do you need to get a loony lotus to 170? A lot more than to get a bike there.
Exiting a corner at 80, the bikes are up to 150 just a few hundred yards later. And i think that is where they have cars pegged. Their mid- to high-speed acceleration is simply devastating.
not as long as you think, yes, probably not as fast as a bike, but far from slow.Exiting a corner at 80, the bikes are up to 150 just a few hundred yards later. And i think that is where they have cars pegged. Their mid- to high-speed acceleration is simply devastating.
for example:
http://www.vimeo.com/7770389
less than ideal conditions, doing 0-140 in ~12 sec's
Todays senior-class bikes are closing-in on double the power, much better brakes and suspension, and a lot less weight. I think the elise would get murdered in anything less than a proper downpour.
rhinochopig said:
Oh Jesus not this again - we get it every year.
A car would be faster, based on the simple fact that the side-cars are more car than bike, getting on for two and half times the weight of a superbike, yet have the same engine and still post a lap time only 15mph down. Add an extra wheel, remove the passenger and increase the BHP and you'd smash the lap time.
what you are describing is akin to an F1 car. Not really relevant to this road-based, production-based, cars vs bikes debate. A car would be faster, based on the simple fact that the side-cars are more car than bike, getting on for two and half times the weight of a superbike, yet have the same engine and still post a lap time only 15mph down. Add an extra wheel, remove the passenger and increase the BHP and you'd smash the lap time.
BarnatosGhost said:
quick, granted, but that is only as quick as the original fireblade, 125bhp and now 18 years old.
Todays senior-class bikes are closing-in on double the power, much better brakes and suspension, and a lot less weight. I think the elise would get murdered in anything less than a proper downpour.
like I said, less than ideal, that car was fuels for a 1+ hours racing.Todays senior-class bikes are closing-in on double the power, much better brakes and suspension, and a lot less weight. I think the elise would get murdered in anything less than a proper downpour.
Steve Gugliemi's Time attack car has double the power of the one in that video.
BarnatosGhost said:
rhinochopig said:
Oh Jesus not this again - we get it every year.
A car would be faster, based on the simple fact that the side-cars are more car than bike, getting on for two and half times the weight of a superbike, yet have the same engine and still post a lap time only 15mph down. Add an extra wheel, remove the passenger and increase the BHP and you'd smash the lap time.
what you are describing is akin to an F1 car. Not really relevant to this road-based, production-based, cars vs bikes debate. A car would be faster, based on the simple fact that the side-cars are more car than bike, getting on for two and half times the weight of a superbike, yet have the same engine and still post a lap time only 15mph down. Add an extra wheel, remove the passenger and increase the BHP and you'd smash the lap time.
DangerousMike said:
compare the average price of a bike to the price of the bikes that compete in the TT. From the average price of a car, calculate what you're allowed to spend on the car.
a car will murder a bike round a track, way more grip and much much better braking.
not sure that is fair, but lets say that formula gives you 1m to spend on a car.a car will murder a bike round a track, way more grip and much much better braking.
A Great start, but if that is the game then you will also have to start with a best-selling sportscar (say a 911) and be restricted to using its standard chassis/body and engine block.
Not so easy now...
rhinochopig said:
BarnatosGhost said:
rhinochopig said:
Oh Jesus not this again - we get it every year.
A car would be faster, based on the simple fact that the side-cars are more car than bike, getting on for two and half times the weight of a superbike, yet have the same engine and still post a lap time only 15mph down. Add an extra wheel, remove the passenger and increase the BHP and you'd smash the lap time.
what you are describing is akin to an F1 car. Not really relevant to this road-based, production-based, cars vs bikes debate. A car would be faster, based on the simple fact that the side-cars are more car than bike, getting on for two and half times the weight of a superbike, yet have the same engine and still post a lap time only 15mph down. Add an extra wheel, remove the passenger and increase the BHP and you'd smash the lap time.
Granted, it's faster than the bikes on some tracks. But this isn't some tracks, it's some bumpy a- and b-roads.
Would it be faster than production class iom bikes round the iom. I guess no, you guess yes.
Can anyone find anything to prove or indicate either way?
BarnatosGhost said:
DangerousMike said:
compare the average price of a bike to the price of the bikes that compete in the TT. From the average price of a car, calculate what you're allowed to spend on the car.
a car will murder a bike round a track, way more grip and much much better braking.
not sure that is fair, but lets say that formula gives you 1m to spend on a car.a car will murder a bike round a track, way more grip and much much better braking.
A Great start, but if that is the game then you will also have to start with a best-selling sportscar (say a 911) and be restricted to using its standard chassis/body and engine block.
Not so easy now...
Original question. No.
Can a car lap quicker than a bike at any track? No.
I can't believe that people are so attached to their tin boxes that they actually believe a car can be quicker than a bike.
What about a 1000bhp Nissan Skyline, Bugatti Veyron or a F1 car? F1 isn't a car it's a gokart and would fall apart, the Veyron would run out of Petrol half way and the Skyline may be good for quarter mile runs or like driftin' in-it but would not be able to cope with the surface of the TT circuit. Skyline vs Wall would have a similar result to biker vs wall so go for it. WRC car would be close and fun to watch. Oh hang on they already do a Manx Rally and they're a lot slower. So much so that a twenty five year old E30 M3 made the WRC boys look stupid a few years ago.
Can a car beat a bike round the TT? No.
You can close the thread now.
Can a car lap quicker than a bike at any track? No.
I can't believe that people are so attached to their tin boxes that they actually believe a car can be quicker than a bike.
What about a 1000bhp Nissan Skyline, Bugatti Veyron or a F1 car? F1 isn't a car it's a gokart and would fall apart, the Veyron would run out of Petrol half way and the Skyline may be good for quarter mile runs or like driftin' in-it but would not be able to cope with the surface of the TT circuit. Skyline vs Wall would have a similar result to biker vs wall so go for it. WRC car would be close and fun to watch. Oh hang on they already do a Manx Rally and they're a lot slower. So much so that a twenty five year old E30 M3 made the WRC boys look stupid a few years ago.
Can a car beat a bike round the TT? No.
You can close the thread now.
Liquid Knight said:
Original question. No.
Can a car lap quicker than a bike at any track? No.
I can't believe that people are so attached to their tin boxes that they actually believe a car can be quicker than a bike.
What about a 1000bhp Nissan Skyline, Bugatti Veyron or a F1 car? F1 isn't a car it's a gokart and would fall apart, the Veyron would run out of Petrol half way and the Skyline may be good for quarter mile runs or like driftin' in-it but would not be able to cope with the surface of the TT circuit. Skyline vs Wall would have a similar result to biker vs wall so go for it. WRC car would be close and fun to watch. Oh hang on they already do a Manx Rally and they're a lot slower. So much so that a twenty five year old E30 M3 made the WRC boys look stupid a few years ago.
Can a car beat a bike round the TT? No.
You can close the thread now.
This F1 car didn't fall apart:Can a car lap quicker than a bike at any track? No.
I can't believe that people are so attached to their tin boxes that they actually believe a car can be quicker than a bike.
What about a 1000bhp Nissan Skyline, Bugatti Veyron or a F1 car? F1 isn't a car it's a gokart and would fall apart, the Veyron would run out of Petrol half way and the Skyline may be good for quarter mile runs or like driftin' in-it but would not be able to cope with the surface of the TT circuit. Skyline vs Wall would have a similar result to biker vs wall so go for it. WRC car would be close and fun to watch. Oh hang on they already do a Manx Rally and they're a lot slower. So much so that a twenty five year old E30 M3 made the WRC boys look stupid a few years ago.
Can a car beat a bike round the TT? No.
You can close the thread now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAFyDmal8_4
The "WRC boys" don't do the Manx rally
Everything else you wrote is utter nonsense.
This is a sweeping generalisation but I'd say road car vs road bike the bike would win it but race car vs race bike the car would take it round your average race track because of the extra grip you'd get from aero packages and slick tyres.
The TT course is a very different animal though, there are lots of sections involving left-right-left-right kinks in the road that the bike can straight line whereas a car would need to back off to take them.
The TT course is a very different animal though, there are lots of sections involving left-right-left-right kinks in the road that the bike can straight line whereas a car would need to back off to take them.
interloper said:
Oh raw nerve touched there me thinks!
Bikes can be quick and are definitely more challenging, rewarding, exciting etc but cars are generally faster when things turn bendy and nadgery.
Every TT, every time some kit car that'd be about as much use on the road as a horse on stilts sets a lap record at the ring, every time some WRX driver gets humilliated on a "B" road by a 125 rider with "L" plates, every Summer on any road.Bikes can be quick and are definitely more challenging, rewarding, exciting etc but cars are generally faster when things turn bendy and nadgery.
Can a car be quicker than a bike round....blah.....blah.....blah?
Of course bikers are braver than car drivers. We don't have crumple zones, seat belts, air bags and a big metal cage to protect us. Bikes are more rewarding than cars because no matter how fast or what car I drive I feel like a passenger compared to being sat on a bike. No matter how powerfull and well set up a car can be for the track you'll come unstuck at the speed ramps as you exit the circuit. My GSXR is as fast as anything I have ever driven but I can get on turn the key and go anywhere. From the Nurburgring to the local news agents.
Liquid Knight said:
WRC car would be close and fun to watch. Oh hang on they already do a Manx Rally and they're a lot slower.
I hadn't noticed that line, that is funny! The Manx Rally uses different roads and besides due to FIA regs rally stages are not allowed to exceed a specific average MPH (which is set pretty low, think its about 120kph). So they couldn't use much of the TT course at all, even if they wanted to sadly. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff