Winter Tyres

[Chicane-UK]

<<Warning>> - positive comments for winter tyres below. Powerfully built company directors who don't see the need for them may not want to continue reading

Been snowing pretty steadily here all day - decided to head out and give the Alpin A4's a good test on some untreated, little used back roads around Warwickshire for the last hour or so.

Actually it felt like quite a treat in the end - I just cruised around listening to Radio 2 down picturesque snowy lanes, with the roads to myself - they were absolutely deserted. The only times I came back upon main roads I'd end up sitting behind the occasional car doing about half the speed limit (fair enough given the conditions) before I got the chance to turn off and find some more back lanes.

I had the chance to test on a variety of gradients including pulling away from a standing start on a fairly steep hill and also tested pretty much flat out acceleration up a ridiculously icy and quite steep hill.

In short I guess all I can say is they've exceeded my expectations. You absolutely could feel the lack of grip and really you still need to drive a good 30-40% under the speed limit but I never felt like I didn't have control and really just found my confidence growing and growing the more I drove. Even standing on the throttle going up a steep, icy road the traction control light did go beserk when the engine came on boost but I still found the car was accelerating.

Great fun I wish my car had 4WD now though just to see how much better that would be! For those who are sitting on the fence and thinking about buying a set - DO IT..

[Jasandjules]

Chicane-UK said:

Great fun I wish my car had 4WD now though just to see how much better that would be! For those who are sitting on the fence and thinking about buying a set - DO IT..

I think it is as with many things in life (like a dishwasher say) - once you have tried it you won't not use them again....

The difference in grip (and therefore the chances of having all four wheels pointing in the right direction when your journey finishes) in just simply amazing and really does have to be experienced to be believed.

[FiF]

AnotherGareth said:

bhstewie said:

any suggestions on "All Season" tyres for a SUV/4x4 that spends its time on the roads, that will give decent grip in the wet and snow whilst not wasting away in the summer?

Vredestein do an SUV version of the Quatrac 3 that might be worth investigating.

Can't say from experience how the SUV version will perform -- suggest you look for reviews -- but I've used the normal version on two different cars in different sizes and they've been good both times, (165/70R13 T-rated and 195/65R15 V-rated).

The other one I would suggest you consider is the old PH favourite Nokian WRG2 SUV XL.

After I had difficulty sourcing the Quatrac 3 at a reasonable cost as first choice of all weathers for the FL2 I fitted a set of the WRG2 SUV XL on 18" rims.

Guess it's time to report the story so far.

Picked these as have had good experience with Nokian tyres in the past, studded and unstudded, and have a set of W+ on the fab Fabia, used all year round and now in 3rd winter. But that is a light low powered vehicle, driven fairly steadily and only 3-4k pa.

Picked the WRG2 as although they are sold as winters in Europe and are M*S plus mountain snowflake rated they are sold as all weathers in N America, so had reasonable confidence they would be OK outside true winter.

Immediately the lack of road noise compared to the Pielli Scorpion all seasons they replaced made me think I'd gone deaf.

One doesn't run a 4x4 SUV on all seasons if one wants to hot shoe it round, and they are fine for my type of motoring, mostly rural with some longer motorway runs, so far just 2-300 in a day so not starship mileages. No measurable wear so far since fitted in November. Only concern was in the first couple of hundred miles, one of those autumn days, warmish, damp and greasy roads they were distinctly skittish. But then the roundabouts this was experienced on are notorious as slippery, so who knows. They are fine now, dry, wet, damp, cold , warm.

Since the white stuff came they have performed how I expected. I know the WRG2 trades off some snow and ice grip for performance more like an all weather. The only time I can detect a noticeable inferiority to full on Nordic studless frictions is cornering on polished ice, and they are a little worse than Conti WinterContact TS830 again on ice.

As far as traction and braking is concerned on snow it has been only possible to break traction with significant applications of throttle and very heavy braking. As I say on hard polished ice, then it's possible to slither about and provoke it, but you have to provoke it. Normal steady driving with smooth use of controls and forward planning has been completely secure.

In summary, I expected them to struggle a bit, seeing as I'm used to much more dedicated winter rubber, but whilst I can detect in extremis they aren't quite as good, in practise they are completely fit for purpose.

HTH

[Sonic]

Just been out to pick up the Mrs from the train station in Milton Keynes.

I figured the BMW wouldn't even get off the driveway as we have 6-8 inches round here and it's been coming down solidly all day, so took the S2 (4WD quattro on summer rubber).

It's slidetastic - the roads are really bad as the snow has taken hold. I cant count the amount of cars that were pulled over with their hazards on, that span on the many roundabouts or that completely locked up on approach.

People are absolute fools - i was taking it pretty steady at 20-30mph and making progress, taking my time to shift down through the gears when approaching junctions avoiding any sudden braking and subsequent sliding. Yet there was always some tool trying to push me along, but clearly not confident enough to overtake, and struggling to slow down behind me at the next roundabout. The amount of cars i saw that just slid straight out at junctions and roundabouts, wheels locked, was staggering.

What i'd do to have my trusty clio back with its Nokian WRG2 winter rubber

Edited by Sonic on Sunday 20th January 20:51

[wst]

I pottered about on last year's Bridgestone A001's in the bedfordshire 4-5 inches of snow on the ungritted roads around...

Slidey, but I had to provoke it a bit. Felt comfortable up to ~ 50mph on the straight bits, but it needed a lot of concentration. The worst bits really were the car - feeling the front end shuffling torque (all not-much of it!) from side to side (due to varying grip) would unsettle it a bit. I'd love to have had something RWD with an LSD so the diff would lock and it'd perform exactly as I'd input instead of having a bit of random luck with what the diff wanted to do at the time.

[blearyeyedboy]

Jasandjules said:

I think it is as with many things in life (like a dishwasher say) - once you have tried it you won't not use them again....

It's interesting you say that. I'm very happy with mine but is there anyone out there who's bought some and thought "I wouldn't do that again"?

[jwo]

Chicane-UK said:

<<Warning>> - positive comments for winter tyres below. Powerfully built company directors who don't see the need for them may not want to continue reading

Been snowing pretty steadily here all day - decided to head out and give the Alpin A4's a good test on some untreated, little used back roads around Warwickshire for the last hour or so.

Actually it felt like quite a treat in the end - I just cruised around listening to Radio 2 down picturesque snowy lanes, with the roads to myself - they were absolutely deserted. The only times I came back upon main roads I'd end up sitting behind the occasional car doing about half the speed limit (fair enough given the conditions) before I got the chance to turn off and find some more back lanes.

I had the chance to test on a variety of gradients including pulling away from a standing start on a fairly steep hill and also tested pretty much flat out acceleration up a ridiculously icy and quite steep hill.

In short I guess all I can say is they've exceeded my expectations. You absolutely could feel the lack of grip and really you still need to drive a good 30-40% under the speed limit but I never felt like I didn't have control and really just found my confidence growing and growing the more I drove. Even standing on the throttle going up a steep, icy road the traction control light did go beserk when the engine came on boost but I still found the car was accelerating.

Great fun I wish my car had 4WD now though just to see how much better that would be! For those who are sitting on the fence and thinking about buying a set - DO IT..

They are good! I had winters (from winter of 2010) on front wheel drive car and was converted. Now have a 4wd - when I purchased it also got a set of winter wheels - it's those stick patches at each corner that provide the grip!!

[FiF]

blearyeyedboy said:

Jasandjules said:

I think it is as with many things in life (like a dishwasher say) - once you have tried it you won't not use them again....

It's interesting you say that. I'm very happy with mine but is there anyone out there who's bought some and thought "I wouldn't do that again"?

LoonR1 on this thread, put them on his M3 and then moaned that they didn't perform like his wet weather track day bike tyres on the M62 at 100+. Or summat like that, heavily paraphrased.

Notice he hasn't commented since it snowed...

[blearyeyedboy]

(LoonR1- if you read this, care to comment?)

FiF- You see, my question's deliberately loaded. I know many people who talk about the pros and cons if they haven't tried them but I know no one who's bought them who regrets it, and that's rather telling, I think.

[Gwagon111]

I actually tried some wintracs this year. They made fk all difference. I'll just stick to driving carefully and save myself a few quid in future.

[FiF]

@blearyeyedboy, Yep, that's my experience in real life, anyone who has tried them after a nightmare journey says the same thing. Some are a bit evangelistic it's true.

I can respect those who say they won't use as for a hundred reasons they can adjust their lifestyle / working arrangements / travel on the bus / walk / whatever.

The ones I can't respect are the ones who try to travel as normal, then moan, wring their hands and whinge something must be done.

The other ones I can't respect are the service outfits, who have a direct requirement upon them to turn up, but fail to prepare. Other year we wanted to get an ambulance to a potential serious injury, the local first responder was there on foot, we got the emergency doctor there, but we really needed an ambulance. Paraffin parrot was out of the question. Ambulance couldn't get and the council wouldn't send a plough / gritter to assist as it was too snowy. Doctor took a calculated risk in the end and we transported by car. Paramedics have 4x4 with proper tyres now.

[tamore]

Gwagon111 said:

I actually tried some wintracs this year. They made fk all difference. I'll just stick to driving carefully and save myself a few quid in future.

you must have tried wearing them on your feet then.

[trashbat]

I might have regretted the effect on my cash flow a little if we'd only had the weather we were seeing until last week, i.e. warm and wet. I was starting to think, as perhaps were many on this thread, that we wouldn't see any real application.

As it is, the (a) unique driving experience from one snow day and (b) ability to make solid plans has probably been worth the £80 changeover costs for this year.

Edited by trashbat on Sunday 20th January 22:24

[1ians]

FiF said:

LoonR1 on this thread, put them on his M3 and then moaned that they didn't perform like his wet weather track day bike tyres on the M62 at 100+. Or summat like that, heavily paraphrased.

Notice he hasn't commented since it snowed...

To be fair it's a similar story on my M3, too noisy at high speed and spoils the handling. I only fitted them last week as I prefer my summer tyres. I'm using the Nokian WRG2s which were about £130 a corner.

However, they really do transform the car in the snow. Couldn't manage without them. They were outstanding today.

Think that I may try all seasons instead next time.

Ian

[blearyeyedboy]

Gwagon111 said:

I actually tried some wintracs this year. They made fk all difference. I'll just stick to driving carefully and save myself a few quid in future.

Seriously, what summer tyres were you comparing them to? And what sort of driving were you doing?

[tenohfive]

1ians said:

Think that I may try all seasons instead next time.

Ian

Quite surprised to hear that. I've got all seasons and for most people to plod about in who will never test the limits of the (summertime) grip, the idea of 80% of the performance of both summer and winter tyres is brilliant - and I think the more people have them the less will crash in the snow and ice.

But for performance cars I'd have thought dedicated season appropriate rubber and a good weather eye would be the way ahead?

[1ians]

My thinking is to use summer tyres in summer and all seasons for winter. With the amount of severe weather I see, all seasons might be a more appropriate tyre for winter use for me.

Ian

[Bradgate]

As a RWD BMW owner, I have decided that I have to get some winter tyres, so I would appreciate some advice on the following :

1, Is there such a thing as winter runflats?

2, Will I need a second set of wheels, or will my summer tyres simply be removed from the rims and stored ready to be put back on in the spring?

Thanks!

[otolith]

Bradgate said:

As a RWD BMW owner, I have decided that I have to get some winter tyres, so I would appreciate some advice on the following :

1, Is there such a thing as winter runflats?

2, Will I need a second set of wheels, or will my summer tyres simply be removed from the rims and stored ready to be put back on in the spring?

Thanks!

1. Yes
2. Both are options

[WorAl]

Bradgate said:

As a RWD BMW owner, I have decided that I have to get some winter tyres, so I would appreciate some advice on the following :

1, Is there such a thing as winter runflats?

2, Will I need a second set of wheels, or will my summer tyres simply be removed from the rims and stored ready to be put back on in the spring?

Thanks!

1) yes you can get run flats, eg these

2) you can use the same rims, tho I don't think it's advisable to put on/take off tyres from rims too often. After all you can buy part worn tyres.