An epidemic of insanely slow drivers

[CLK-GTR]

Whataguy said:

I’ve seen quite a bit of ‘elephant racing’ between normal cars recently.

It used to just be trucks with their speed limiters passing each other at 1/2mph but now regular cars do it.

Someone wants to get past but won’t even do the gps accurate speed, so crawl past. They then slow down so the passed car does the same thing to them and it repeats if many miles.

Blame the speed cameras for that one. Forgetting tolerances for the sake of the argument, if somebody is doing 65mph I'll overtake them but I'll be damned if I'm going to break 70 on a road I don't know.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Unreal said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unreal said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

One of the reasons tailgaters exist, is because some cannot drive at the posted limits, and they unnecessarily hold up others who legally want to travel at the posted limits.
The main reason for using any vehicle from a skateboard to an SST, is to get from one place, to another quicker than is possible by walking. Otherwise there would be no point in inventing, building, having, and using motorized vehicles.
If the person in front, is doing the posted limit, then they are doing all that can be expected from them, and they should not be tailgated into going faster (Getting done for exceeding a posted limit, if that is what a driver wanted to do, is one thing, but getting done for exceeding a posted limit, because the person behind tailgated you into exceeding the limit is as about as daft as it gets).
If a person is not able to cope with driving at the posted limits, they should perhaps consider whether they are suited to driving any motorized vehicle on public roads at all. Certainly they would fail a driving test, if they did this during the test, which technically means they are fit to be allowed on public roads.
The sad thing is that if everyone stuck to the limits, (Low though they are) good cross country progress can still be made.
The reason some feel the need to speed, is to compensate timewise, for the negative effects on journey times, caused by the dawdlers they meet on the roads

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 25th March 15:08

I can't say I've noticed a correlation between tailgaters and people driving below the limit.

Tailgating is endemic at almost any speed.

As I have pointed out, if the person in front is traveling at the posted limit, there is no sound, or legal reason why a person should tail gate them.
If however, they are travelling at well below a posted limit, they can hardly be surprised if `some' others coming up behind them get a little close. (Possibly in the belief, that the person dawdling in front of them, is driving without due care and attention, and has not seen them yet, because they not been using their mirrors properly?)

There are all sorts of valid justifications for people driving below a posted limit. Taxi and delivery drivers do it all the time when they are looking for an address. People do it when looking for a parking space when passing a long line of parked cars. People do it when they are lost or confused by their satnav. Most of us have had to limp home to a garage with a flat tyre, misfire or some other mechanical issue. Old people cannot be expected to make the same overtakes younger people might make.

New drivers won't have the confidence to make overtakes or maintain speeds that local experienced drivers can. Some people are carrying fragile items. I have to collect a long, thin quartz window sill soon - anyway who thinks I'll be driving to the speed limits all the way home with that in the back is sadly mistaken. Nor will I have a sign in the back to justify my speed to morons. Amazingly, some people do have more time than others, so don't drive everywhere at the limit, all of the time. And on some roads, amazingly, the limit is too high.

Having said all of that, there are obstructive drivers, road captains and dawdlers. Some should be prosecuted. An experienced, competent driver deals with all of these dispassionately, accepting that they are part of driving like poor road markings, potholes, cyclists, horses and blackberry pickers.

On the other hand, there is not one single valid justification for tailgating. It is the hallmark of the incompetent driver.

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

[M4cruiser]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

Disagree. The "dawdler" may have a reason for it, some have been explained above.
There is never any reason to tailgate.

[bigothunter]

M4cruiser said:

Disagree. The "dawdler" may have a reason for it, some have been explained above.
There is never any reason to tailgate.

If you want or need to dawdle, then pull off the road and allow others to pass. There is no excuse for inhibiting their progress.

[hungry_hog]

Lots of dawdlers in NW London, usually the driver is either 100 years old, has an MPV with 7 kids in the back, or 10 tonnes of rubbish in the back window and can't see anything.

They are dangerous in the sense people do crazy things to get around them. There was one in the outside lane of the A406 yesterday doing 30 (limit was 40) and I saw a young fella squeeze his brand new Golf R in and out of traffic to undertake it. Lane 3 to lane 2, lane 2 to lane 3 like a Playstation game!

[Whataguy]

bigothunter said:

Happens on race circuits after multiple brake applications from high speed (can be over 150mph).

Believing transfer of pad material will occur after single brake application from 70mph is farcical.

Fundamental rule with track driving is never apply the handbrake when the brakes are hot, because the pads are prone to sticking.

While decent sports car brakes on the public road should be fine, sadly the crap quality of brake parts in general everyday cars now means it is an issue.

I had a plain Volvo V40, which is basically just a rebadged Ford Focus, and had to replace all the discs and pads because of this.

Car only had 180hp so not exactly a rocket.

Cost over £600 from the main dealer just for plain OE parts. Afterwards I was always careful to baby the brakes after a stop - the local A road has tiny slip roads so you are using decent force.

[bigothunter]

Whataguy said:

While decent sports car brakes on the public road should be fine, sadly the crap quality of brake parts in general everyday cars now means it is an issue.

I had a plain Volvo V40, which is basically just a rebadged Ford Focus, and had to replace all the discs and pads because of this.

Car only had 180hp so not exactly a rocket.

Cost over £600 from the main dealer just for plain OE parts. Afterwards I was always careful to baby the brakes after a stop - the local A road has tiny slip roads so you are using decent force.

Whatever makes you happy

[740EVTORQUES]

hungry_hog said:

Lots of dawdlers in NW London, usually the driver is either 100 years old, has an MPV with 7 kids in the back, or 10 tonnes of rubbish in the back window and can't see anything.

They are dangerous in the sense people do crazy things to get around them. There was one in the outside lane of the A406 yesterday doing 30 (limit was 40) and I saw a young fella squeeze his brand new Golf R in and out of traffic to undertake it. Lane 3 to lane 2, lane 2 to lane 3 like a Playstation game!

And who is the problem here?

[biggbn]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unreal said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unreal said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

One of the reasons tailgaters exist, is because some cannot drive at the posted limits, and they unnecessarily hold up others who legally want to travel at the posted limits.
The main reason for using any vehicle from a skateboard to an SST, is to get from one place, to another quicker than is possible by walking. Otherwise there would be no point in inventing, building, having, and using motorized vehicles.
If the person in front, is doing the posted limit, then they are doing all that can be expected from them, and they should not be tailgated into going faster (Getting done for exceeding a posted limit, if that is what a driver wanted to do, is one thing, but getting done for exceeding a posted limit, because the person behind tailgated you into exceeding the limit is as about as daft as it gets).
If a person is not able to cope with driving at the posted limits, they should perhaps consider whether they are suited to driving any motorized vehicle on public roads at all. Certainly they would fail a driving test, if they did this during the test, which technically means they are fit to be allowed on public roads.
The sad thing is that if everyone stuck to the limits, (Low though they are) good cross country progress can still be made.
The reason some feel the need to speed, is to compensate timewise, for the negative effects on journey times, caused by the dawdlers they meet on the roads

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 25th March 15:08

I can't say I've noticed a correlation between tailgaters and people driving below the limit.

Tailgating is endemic at almost any speed.

As I have pointed out, if the person in front is traveling at the posted limit, there is no sound, or legal reason why a person should tail gate them.
If however, they are travelling at well below a posted limit, they can hardly be surprised if `some' others coming up behind them get a little close. (Possibly in the belief, that the person dawdling in front of them, is driving without due care and attention, and has not seen them yet, because they not been using their mirrors properly?)

There are all sorts of valid justifications for people driving below a posted limit. Taxi and delivery drivers do it all the time when they are looking for an address. People do it when looking for a parking space when passing a long line of parked cars. People do it when they are lost or confused by their satnav. Most of us have had to limp home to a garage with a flat tyre, misfire or some other mechanical issue. Old people cannot be expected to make the same overtakes younger people might make.

New drivers won't have the confidence to make overtakes or maintain speeds that local experienced drivers can. Some people are carrying fragile items. I have to collect a long, thin quartz window sill soon - anyway who thinks I'll be driving to the speed limits all the way home with that in the back is sadly mistaken. Nor will I have a sign in the back to justify my speed to morons. Amazingly, some people do have more time than others, so don't drive everywhere at the limit, all of the time. And on some roads, amazingly, the limit is too high.

Having said all of that, there are obstructive drivers, road captains and dawdlers. Some should be prosecuted. An experienced, competent driver deals with all of these dispassionately, accepting that they are part of driving like poor road markings, potholes, cyclists, horses and blackberry pickers.

On the other hand, there is not one single valid justification for tailgating. It is the hallmark of the incompetent driver.

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

Still banging this drum? Wow. If that is your opinion that's cool, but you can't claim it as a fact man. People ahould drive at the speed they feel comfortable with and forcing them to do anything else is narrow minded and elitist. Now, if we are talking about people deliberately blocking roads and not giving opportunities to pass those moving quicker, I'm on your side, but you rarely say that instead concentrating on having everyone drive at the posted limit, and not a single mph below, or over, presumably, because that's what limit seems to mean to you?

[biggbn]

bigothunter said:

M4cruiser said:

Disagree. The "dawdler" may have a reason for it, some have been explained above.
There is never any reason to tailgate.

If you want or need to dawdle, then pull off the road and allow others to pass. There is no excuse for inhibiting their progress.

Agreed 100%, this is what I do.

[croyde]

Yep! I'm a pretty fast walker but whenever I hear someone coming up behind me, I stand to the side and say 'after you' or wave them through.

Oddly, dithering walkers never seem to know what's going on around them and never make it easy for me to pass.

I'm just asking for people to be aware, be helpful and polite.

I am so why can't every other feker be

[Boosted LS1]

biggbn said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unreal said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Unreal said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

One of the reasons tailgaters exist, is because some cannot drive at the posted limits, and they unnecessarily hold up others who legally want to travel at the posted limits.
The main reason for using any vehicle from a skateboard to an SST, is to get from one place, to another quicker than is possible by walking. Otherwise there would be no point in inventing, building, having, and using motorized vehicles.
If the person in front, is doing the posted limit, then they are doing all that can be expected from them, and they should not be tailgated into going faster (Getting done for exceeding a posted limit, if that is what a driver wanted to do, is one thing, but getting done for exceeding a posted limit, because the person behind tailgated you into exceeding the limit is as about as daft as it gets).
If a person is not able to cope with driving at the posted limits, they should perhaps consider whether they are suited to driving any motorized vehicle on public roads at all. Certainly they would fail a driving test, if they did this during the test, which technically means they are fit to be allowed on public roads.
The sad thing is that if everyone stuck to the limits, (Low though they are) good cross country progress can still be made.
The reason some feel the need to speed, is to compensate timewise, for the negative effects on journey times, caused by the dawdlers they meet on the roads

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 25th March 15:08

I can't say I've noticed a correlation between tailgaters and people driving below the limit.

Tailgating is endemic at almost any speed.

As I have pointed out, if the person in front is traveling at the posted limit, there is no sound, or legal reason why a person should tail gate them.
If however, they are travelling at well below a posted limit, they can hardly be surprised if `some' others coming up behind them get a little close. (Possibly in the belief, that the person dawdling in front of them, is driving without due care and attention, and has not seen them yet, because they not been using their mirrors properly?)

There are all sorts of valid justifications for people driving below a posted limit. Taxi and delivery drivers do it all the time when they are looking for an address. People do it when looking for a parking space when passing a long line of parked cars. People do it when they are lost or confused by their satnav. Most of us have had to limp home to a garage with a flat tyre, misfire or some other mechanical issue. Old people cannot be expected to make the same overtakes younger people might make.

New drivers won't have the confidence to make overtakes or maintain speeds that local experienced drivers can. Some people are carrying fragile items. I have to collect a long, thin quartz window sill soon - anyway who thinks I'll be driving to the speed limits all the way home with that in the back is sadly mistaken. Nor will I have a sign in the back to justify my speed to morons. Amazingly, some people do have more time than others, so don't drive everywhere at the limit, all of the time. And on some roads, amazingly, the limit is too high.

Having said all of that, there are obstructive drivers, road captains and dawdlers. Some should be prosecuted. An experienced, competent driver deals with all of these dispassionately, accepting that they are part of driving like poor road markings, potholes, cyclists, horses and blackberry pickers.

On the other hand, there is not one single valid justification for tailgating. It is the hallmark of the incompetent driver.

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

Still banging this drum? Wow. If that is your opinion that's cool, but you can't claim it as a fact man. People ahould drive at the speed they feel comfortable with and forcing them to do anything else is narrow minded and elitist. Now, if we are talking about people deliberately blocking roads and not giving opportunities to pass those moving quicker, I'm on your side, but you rarely say that instead concentrating on having everyone drive at the posted limit, and not a single mph below, or over, presumably, because that's what limit seems to mean to you?

When I took my lessons and driving test it was stressed that we should accellerate to the posted limit and stick to it where possible so as to have consideration for other road users and not to cause frustration. If you dawdled you'd fail the test.
Nowadays even driving instructors can't manage that let alone keep to the left in my town. It's hardly surprising new drivers are clueless about some matters.

[CLK-GTR]

biggbn said:

Still banging this drum? Wow. If that is your opinion that's cool, but you can't claim it as a fact man. People ahould drive at the speed they feel comfortable with and forcing them to do anything else is narrow minded and elitist. Now, if we are talking about people deliberately blocking roads and not giving opportunities to pass those moving quicker, I'm on your side, but you rarely say that instead concentrating on having everyone drive at the posted limit, and not a single mph below, or over, presumably, because that's what limit seems to mean to you?

If somebody doesn't feel comfortable driving at the posted limit in otherwise good conditions then there is a problem with their driving ability. Simple as that.

[Unreal]

CLK-GTR said:

biggbn said:

Still banging this drum? Wow. If that is your opinion that's cool, but you can't claim it as a fact man. People ahould drive at the speed they feel comfortable with and forcing them to do anything else is narrow minded and elitist. Now, if we are talking about people deliberately blocking roads and not giving opportunities to pass those moving quicker, I'm on your side, but you rarely say that instead concentrating on having everyone drive at the posted limit, and not a single mph below, or over, presumably, because that's what limit seems to mean to you?

If somebody doesn't feel comfortable driving at the posted limit in otherwise good conditions then there is a problem with their driving ability. Simple as that.

Of course, but subject to there not being any other factors at play, some of which I have already listed. Short of telepathy, it's usually hard to know why someone isn't driving at the speed we think they should be driving at and it's a bit daft to assume they are dawdling due to incompetence or malice. If the latter two reasons apply, then there's no excuse.

[hungry_hog]

Not sure if it applies now but when I took my test (1995), my instructor said driving under 30 (let's say 25) in a 30 was a minor fault
(this is assuming good road conditions in terms of weather, not outside busy school, not driving on oil slick etc.)

I think 3 minor faults of same type is/was a fail.

So these dawdlers would fail their test, which makes me wonder how they passed in the first place, is dawdling something people pick up as a bad habit? Most people go the other way!

[bigothunter]

CLK-GTR said:

If somebody doesn't feel comfortable driving at the posted limit in otherwise good conditions then there is a problem with their driving ability. Simple as that.

Yup

Especially as UK speed limits are set low to accommodate the least competent drivers. Falling below that mediocre standard is not acceptable.

[vonhosen]

hungry_hog said:

Not sure if it applies now but when I took my test (1995), my instructor said driving under 30 (let's say 25) in a 30 was a minor fault
(this is assuming good road conditions in terms of weather, not outside busy school, not driving on oil slick etc.)

I think 3 minor faults of same type is/was a fail.

So these dawdlers would fail their test, which makes me wonder how they passed in the first place, is dawdling something people pick up as a bad habit? Most people go the other way!

They are tighter on test on over speed (limit) than under speed.

[Mr Tidy]

vonhosen said:

They are tighter on test on over speed (limit) than under speed.

Probably because over the limit is illegal!

Although my sister failed her first test back in the 70s for being "over-cautious" explained as too slow. Then again a few days before she had stopped at an amber light and been hit from behind by a coach!

I don't think she has ever been over-cautious since she passed her test.

[the-norseman]

I got a minor on my HGV for doing 24 in a 20 last year.

I then mentioned to the examiner that, I'm guessing we turned into the 20 zone and the first thing I knew about it being a 20 was a little repeater sign and he agreed that we had turned into the 20 zone, the main entrance signs were further down the road than where we had entered the road.

[Foss62]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

It’s quite possible that the vehicle is not capable of the posted limit, and/or not allowed to do it (even due to a temporary issue like a space saver spare wheel). I’ve certainly driven and ridden many things that would struggle to do 60 mph.
The driver might be looking for a road sign or a turning and be unfamiliar with the road. They might have sightseeing passengers - traffic inevitably slows when approaching Stonehenge, is there anything wrong with that?
It’s easy to suggest that slower traffic should always pull in, but try doing this in a tractor with a big bit of kit on the back - you’ll soon find out why they don’t do this at every lay-by.
Public roads are there for all sorts of reasons, and most pre-date the internal combustion engine. If you want to drive a car at the posted speed limits most of the time, then you need to develop a skill-set that allows you to cope safely and effectively with slower vehicles - you can’t expect others to adapt.