IOM TT Lap time - could a car beat it?

[RB Will]

Gandahar said:

I wonder which sports person would be quickest on a combined time having to take a bike and then car around? Colin McCrae used to be handy on a bike. Valentino Rossi is handy on both too....

Travis Pastrana and M Schumacher if he ever recovers are the only 2 I can think of that race 2 and 4 wheels

[CO2000]

RobM77 said:

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd place bets on this car setting a new record at the TT course:

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/11/video-recor...

Hey that's the one I resurrected this with Rob! thought you weren't replying any more

It's pulling some g's, can really see it on a tree lined corner versus a open track.

Strictly speaking I've just decided not to debate things with idiots, cause it's just frustrating and gets us nowhere. There's no track or road course in the world where a bike's fastest if cars and bikes both run - case closed. I enjoy chatting about other topics though :-) The Button lap of Bathurst was awesome - it was worth sticking with the thread for that alone!

Aye that Bathhurst lap was a new one for me

[blade7]

RobM77 said:

There's no track or road course in the world where a bike's fastest if cars and bikes both run - case closed.

That excludes the IOM TT course that this thread is about then. TBH I don't care what could/would/should be fastest around there until someone proves otherwise the fact remains it's a bike.

[GravelBen]

blade7 said:

That excludes the IOM TT course that this thread is about then. TBH I don't care what could/would/should be fastest around there until someone proves otherwise the fact remains it's a bike.

Thats all very well, but the thread title does ask the question 'could a car beat it?'

If you want to stick with 'has a car beaten it yet?' feel free, but don't be surprised when everyone else thinks you're missing the point.

But hey, until someone proves otherwise the fastest thing up the lawn behind my house is a Subaru towing a trailer. Its a fact that no motorbike has beaten it, and the neighbour's dog doesn't count because it wasn't officially timed.

Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 11th February 03:28

[coppice]

65 pages ...if nothing else it does show that lack of knowledge of motor sport - acquired by turning up and watching it, reading race reports and so on- is apparently no bar to expressing utterly daft opinions founded on speculation. It's really quite simple- bikes are slower than cars around race tracks (and down drag strips come to that ). That doesn't mean bikes are slow,and on the road in normal conditions superbikes will often be far quicker than any car , and it doesn't mean that bike riders lack cojones but the inconvenient truth for many is that a bike would not see which way a single seater went around the TT course, Spa, Indianapolis or Cadwell.

[glazbagun]

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd place bets on this car setting a new record at the TT course:

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/11/video-recor...

Hey that's the one I resurrected this with Rob! thought you weren't replying any more

It's pulling some g's, can really see it on a tree lined corner versus a open track.

That's awesome! Really makes you appreciate how hairy the old Nurburgring (or any track, I guess) was in the 60's. Imagine that without the barriers!

[RB Will]

glazbagun said:

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd place bets on this car setting a new record at the TT course:

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/11/video-recor...

Hey that's the one I resurrected this with Rob! thought you weren't replying any more

It's pulling some g's, can really see it on a tree lined corner versus a open track.

That's awesome! Really makes you appreciate how hairy the old Nurburgring (or any track, I guess) was in the 60's. Imagine that without the barriers!

Even though the article Rob links to says that its a record breaking run the official course record is held by the car/ driver combo in this link, about 4 secs quicker. Can't find an on board vid of the right track for the record holder though. Its an average speed of 112mph but in fairness that does involve going uphill all the way, a few hairpins and a longest straight of about 1/3 mile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cePDIMcjNR4

but of course we all know that both of the videos are fake as the roads clearly have bumps and the front ends fell off the cars and the corners that a bike could straightline that the cars have to brake for etc etc...

Edited by RB Will on Tuesday 11th February 10:06

[onyx39]

RB Will said:

Gandahar said:

I wonder which sports person would be quickest on a combined time having to take a bike and then car around? Colin McCrae used to be handy on a bike. Valentino Rossi is handy on both too....

Travis Pastrana and M Schumacher if he ever recovers are the only 2 I can think of that race 2 and 4 wheels

Wasn't Damon Hill handy on a bike?

[RB Will]

onyx39 said:

RB Will said:

Gandahar said:

I wonder which sports person would be quickest on a combined time having to take a bike and then car around? Colin McCrae used to be handy on a bike. Valentino Rossi is handy on both too....

Travis Pastrana and M Schumacher if he ever recovers are the only 2 I can think of that race 2 and 4 wheels

Wasn't Damon Hill handy on a bike?

yeah forgot about him, according to Wiki he even won a minor championship on the bike

[Hasbeen]

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd place bets on this car setting a new record at the TT course:

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/11/video-recor...

Hey that's the one I resurrected this with Rob! thought you weren't replying any more

It's pulling some g's, can really see it on a tree lined corner versus a open track.

Strictly speaking I've just decided not to debate things with idiots, cause it's just frustrating and gets us nowhere. There's no track or road course in the world where a bike's fastest if cars and bikes both run - case closed. I enjoy chatting about other topics though :-) The Button lap of Bathurst was awesome - it was worth sticking with the thread for that alone!

Aye that Bathhurst lap was a new one for me

It was good to watch, but I doubt Button hit 7 tenths anywhere in that lap. Having watched it I reckon he could get way under 1.40 if he had been trying.

Of course he was on a hiding to nothing if he'd bent the thing on a promotional outing.

To put it in perspective, we did the first 100 MPH laps, [2.15 laps] of Bathurst in 1968, in 2.5L F1s. I was in a 2.5L Brabham Repco, [Oz F1 using the older international F1 regulations, so we could buy old cars from Europe.] with probably 280 BHP. Reached 176 MPH through the flying 1/8Th.

Very few of those safety fences back then, you could drive off into the trees, or through a barb wire fence, on most of the track.

[RobM77]

Hasbeen said:

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd place bets on this car setting a new record at the TT course:

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/11/video-recor...

Hey that's the one I resurrected this with Rob! thought you weren't replying any more

It's pulling some g's, can really see it on a tree lined corner versus a open track.

Strictly speaking I've just decided not to debate things with idiots, cause it's just frustrating and gets us nowhere. There's no track or road course in the world where a bike's fastest if cars and bikes both run - case closed. I enjoy chatting about other topics though :-) The Button lap of Bathurst was awesome - it was worth sticking with the thread for that alone!

Aye that Bathhurst lap was a new one for me

It was good to watch, but I doubt Button hit 7 tenths anywhere in that lap. Having watched it I reckon he could get way under 1.40 if he had been trying.

Of course he was on a hiding to nothing if he'd bent the thing on a promotional outing.

To put it in perspective, we did the first 100 MPH laps, [2.15 laps] of Bathurst in 1968, in 2.5L F1s. I was in a 2.5L Brabham Repco, [Oz F1 using the older international F1 regulations, so we could buy old cars from Europe.] with probably 280 BHP. Reached 176 MPH through the flying 1/8Th.

Very few of those safety fences back then, you could drive off into the trees, or through a barb wire fence, on most of the track.

I gave a link to a news article where he says exactly that. JB claims to learn a new F1 circuit in a couple of laps (I've heard that quoted before - it's quite remarkable; it takes me way longer than that!), but Bathurst was apparently very difficult to learn. He thinks sub 1:40 is possible with a driver who knows the track and a car set up for the track.

[CO2000]

RB Will said:

glazbagun said:

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd place bets on this car setting a new record at the TT course:

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/11/video-recor...

Hey that's the one I resurrected this with Rob! thought you weren't replying any more

It's pulling some g's, can really see it on a tree lined corner versus a open track.

That's awesome! Really makes you appreciate how hairy the old Nurburgring (or any track, I guess) was in the 60's. Imagine that without the barriers!

Even though the article Rob links to says that its a record breaking run the official course record is held by the car/ driver combo in this link, about 4 secs quicker. Can't find an on board vid of the right track for the record holder though. Its an average speed of 112mph but in fairness that does involve going uphill all the way, a few hairpins and a longest straight of about 1/3 mile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cePDIMcjNR4

but of course we all know that both of the videos are fake as the roads clearly have bumps and the front ends fell off the cars and the corners that a bike could straightline that the cars have to brake for etc etc...

Edited by RB Will on Tuesday 11th February 10:06

Another view of the one I posted, imagine another 200-300bhp!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWJLHRM6dus

[RobM77]

CO2000 said:

RB Will said:

glazbagun said:

CO2000 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd place bets on this car setting a new record at the TT course:

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/11/video-recor...

Hey that's the one I resurrected this with Rob! thought you weren't replying any more

It's pulling some g's, can really see it on a tree lined corner versus a open track.

That's awesome! Really makes you appreciate how hairy the old Nurburgring (or any track, I guess) was in the 60's. Imagine that without the barriers!

Even though the article Rob links to says that its a record breaking run the official course record is held by the car/ driver combo in this link, about 4 secs quicker. Can't find an on board vid of the right track for the record holder though. Its an average speed of 112mph but in fairness that does involve going uphill all the way, a few hairpins and a longest straight of about 1/3 mile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cePDIMcjNR4

but of course we all know that both of the videos are fake as the roads clearly have bumps and the front ends fell off the cars and the corners that a bike could straightline that the cars have to brake for etc etc...

Edited by RB Will on Tuesday 11th February 10:06

Another view of the one I posted, imagine another 200-300bhp!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWJLHRM6dus

I want to race one of those so badly!! The trouble is the engine costs are astronomical...

[London424]

I assume everyone saw this?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[RB Will]

I think the forum had it first and PH pinched it lol

[Skinley]

Apologies for not reading the entire thread, and for being a bit late to the party, but here goes;

I've found a rather simple drawing which illustrates why I think a bike should be faster on the IOM TT than a car,



A bike could 'straight line' this series of bends flat out.

There is not a car in the world that could do the same, no matter who is driving.

Sidecars, like this,
have more in common with cars than bikes, much more rubber on the road, higher cornering speeds, shorter braking distances, lower CofG etc. Yet their lap times at the TT are a couple of minutes slower than the fastest bikes.

[DeolTheBeast]

Skinley said:

Apologies for not reading the entire thread, and for being a bit late to the party, but here goes;

I've found a rather simple drawing which illustrates why I think a bike should be faster on the IOM TT than a car,



A bike could 'straight line' this series of bends flat out.

There is not a car in the world that could do the same, no matter who is driving.

Sidecars, like this,
have more in common with cars than bikes, much more rubber on the road, higher cornering speeds, shorter braking distances, lower CofG etc. Yet their lap times at the TT are a couple of minutes slower than the fastest bikes.

Agree 100% on the straight lining cornering ability bikes have.

However, sidecars don't have either the power of a car, or the more sophisticated suspension setups. I just think sidecars don't have ENOUGH of the ingredients that make cars quicker on most circuits.

[GravelBen]

The fastest sidecar to have run at the TT appears to only be a 600cc - though to be fair its still a lot slower than the best 600cc bike time.

ETA: Looks like only <600cc formula 2 sidecars are permitted, I don't know bikes well enough to know how restrictive those regulations are in comparison to the bikes.

How do bike vs sidecar times compare for other circuits? Sidecars might just be have the worst features of both.

Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 6th March 03:05

[Dave Hedgehog]

one of the new hypercars that has lots of aero could be interesting round their on slicks

[AdeTuono]

Skinley said:

Apologies for not reading the entire thread, and for being a bit late to the party, but here goes;

I've found a rather simple drawing which illustrates why I think a bike should be faster on the IOM TT than a car,



A bike could 'straight line' this series of bends flat out.

There is not a car in the world that could do the same, no matter who is driving.

If the entire TT course was composed of corners like that, maybe. But it's not, is it?