An epidemic of insanely slow drivers

[Evanivitch]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

Can always count on pistonheads for meat-headed victim blaming.

[ferrariboi]

Is the very slow pace an attempt to feel powerful? The person driving at 30 in a 60, with 17 cars stuck behind them, has control over the speed of all of the cars in the queue.

These might also be the people who flash furiously and anyone who dares to overtake them.

[croyde]

ferrariboi said:

Is the very slow pace an attempt to feel powerful? The person driving at 30 in a 60, with 17 cars stuck behind them, has control over the speed of all of the cars in the queue.

These might also be the people who flash furiously and anyone who dares to overtake them.

I don't think that they even know that they are holding people up. I doubt that they even use their mirrors.

Hence the surprise and anger when they've been woken up from their blissful turpor by an overtaking car.

[Nomme de Plum]

For the first 8 or so years of my driving life together with the last 10 years I've lived by the coast. Very popular with holidaymakers. Whilst it can be very frustrating many of these will drive at well below the posted limit.

It's not worth getting stressed though as the only person that gets impacted is the person who lets themselves get stressed.

[CLK-GTR]

Unreal said:

Of course, but subject to there not being any other factors at play, some of which I have already listed. Short of telepathy, it's usually hard to know why someone isn't driving at the speed we think they should be driving at and it's a bit daft to assume they are dawdling due to incompetence or malice. If the latter two reasons apply, then there's no excuse.

That's making excuses for the vast majority who are just dawdling because they're distracted, incompetent, or whatever else.

[Digby]

Unreal said:

Of course, but subject to there not being any other factors at play, some of which I have already listed.

I'm sure, when this topic cropped up some time ago, one of the justifications for slow travel was that they may be carrying a cake. This of course was met with responses suggesting any fragile loads should be secured / packed well enough so that speed shouldn't have any impact.

In my experience, along with those who join motorways to sit at 50mph and those who drop 10+ mph below a posted limit because of a camera, some of the worst slow drivers are not those carrying cake, rather those messing about with their phones.

[MKnight702]

Boosted LS1 said:

When I took my lessons and driving test it was stressed that we should accellerate to the posted limit and stick to it where possible so as to have consideration for other road users and not to cause frustration. If you dawdled you'd fail the test.
Nowadays even driving instructors can't manage that let alone keep to the left in my town. It's hardly surprising new drivers are clueless about some matters.

I had this argument with both my brothers recently. They kept banging on about "it's a limit not a target" and I said wrong, it's both. You should always drive close to the limit unless there is a reason you can't, otherwise you are driving in a manner that is potentially holding up other road users. I seem to recall that this was covered by my driving instructor at the time and it was certainly a fail on the driving test at the time if you were overly hesitant.

[Hol]

I had the miss fortune to head north via the M11, the weekend just gone.

One van driver in the middle lane was was noticeably slower than your typical MLM’s to the point that even they were having to change one to avoid him. I would guess the speed was no more than 45mph, as we were showing 72mph on the cruise control when I passed by.


Still saw the usual suspects.
MLM’s at the usual 60mph
People weaving across three lanes.
A couple of muppets tailgating an ambulance, as people pulled in to let it by.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Foss62 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

It’s quite possible that the vehicle is not capable of the posted limit, and/or not allowed to do it (even due to a temporary issue like a space saver spare wheel). I’ve certainly driven and ridden many things that would struggle to do 60 mph.
The driver might be looking for a road sign or a turning and be unfamiliar with the road. They might have sightseeing passengers - traffic inevitably slows when approaching Stonehenge, is there anything wrong with that?
It’s easy to suggest that slower traffic should always pull in, but try doing this in a tractor with a big bit of kit on the back - you’ll soon find out why they don’t do this at every lay-by.
Public roads are there for all sorts of reasons, and most pre-date the internal combustion engine. If you want to drive a car at the posted speed limits most of the time, then you need to develop a skill-set that allows you to cope safely and effectively with slower vehicles - you can’t expect others to adapt.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous posts ever put on here regarding the subject of vehicle speeds.
If people want to drive safely, and effectively on on public roads, they must FIRST develop a skill set, which shows they are at least able of driving safely, and effectively on public roads.
This is done by taking driving lessons and passing a driving test.
Once the driving test is passed, this shows that the person has developed the MINIMUM standard required by law, for them to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. They then have the opportunity to learn how to drive.
It is those very same persons who want to go slower than the posted limits WHO HAVE NOT developed a skill set that allows them to drive safely and effectively on public roads.
It is those persons who must develop a skill set which allows them to drive safely and effectively on public roads, where most other vehicles will be travelling at, or near the posted limits.
The slow drivers can't expect others to adapt, so why do you say that those who want to legally travel at the posted limits should adapt to slow drivers? it SHOULD be the other way round.
If a person cannot cope with travelling at the posted limits where road and weather conditions allow, then they are not fit to be on the road. If their vehicle is defective, such that it cannot travel safely at the posted limit, then it too, is not fit to be on used on a public road, as an MOT test would confirm. Some vehicles are designed to go slow like tractors, street sweepers or milk floats etc, but these are in the tiny minority and therefore must not be used to set general vehicle speeds.

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Tuesday 2nd April 11:05

[Pan Pan Pan]

Evanivitch said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

Can always count on pistonheads for meat-headed victim blaming.

Can always count on Pistonheads for a brainless comment which is only posted to be contrary to whatever point is being made but which has no basis in reality, or sanity.

[5s Alive]

Might as well rename the thread, 'an epidemic of insane driving', had one on Sunday that takes the biscuit.

Exiting a roundabout into queueing traffic, a young blonde in a Corsa rocks up behind nearly crashing into us. She was vlogging! Holding the phone high in front, videoing herself, talking animatedly and turning it around to show her surroundings as traffic fitfully progressed forwards.

I indicated left and pulled over as far as I could to let her past and she shot forward, nearly rear ending the car in front, bumping up the verge to avoid it. WTAF!

I ws tempted to get out and have a word, but against a lone woman, who is already videoing? - no thank you. At the next roundabout she bumped over the kerb to get down the inside asap. Good riddance. And breathe...

[LunarOne]

CLK-GTR said:

Unreal said:

Of course, but subject to there not being any other factors at play, some of which I have already listed. Short of telepathy, it's usually hard to know why someone isn't driving at the speed we think they should be driving at and it's a bit daft to assume they are dawdling due to incompetence or malice. If the latter two reasons apply, then there's no excuse.

That's making excuses for the vast majority who are just dawdling because they're distracted, incompetent, or whatever else.

Agree. I officially started my driving career in 1991, but had been fascinated by cars and driving at least since I was 5 years old in 1980. I remember as a young child looking out of mum's Capri and paying far more attention to what was going on outside the car than mum ever did and I became a bit of a backseat driver very early on. I distinctly remember that people got up to speed as quickly as possible and that while you did encounter slow vehicles, they tended to be milk floats, hearses and HGVs struggling up hills. Even with the wheezy old cars around at the time, people got a move on. Perhaps it was BECAUSE the cars were underpowered, rather than despite that fact. Back in the day, cars were sold on sportiness and I remember mum revving the car hard and manipulating the gear level with a certain flick of the wrist.

Nowadays everyone has had the anti-speed message pounded into them, they are under constant attack with lowering speed limits and speed cameras everywhere, and traffic density is much higher than it used to be. Yet half the population drive around in massively overpowered SUVs. It's ridiculous!

[Pan Pan Pan]

Nomme de Plum said:

For the first 8 or so years of my driving life together with the last 10 years I've lived by the coast. Very popular with holidaymakers. Whilst it can be very frustrating many of these will drive at well below the posted limit.

It's not worth getting stressed though as the only person that gets impacted is the person who lets themselves get stressed.

Say that to a doctor trying to get to a time critical patient, or ambulance, fire engine, or police cars trying to do the same. How about saying that to a family trying to catch a specific flight or ferry. or a person going to an important job interview. The whole point of using motor vehicles is to get from point A to point B faster than than is possible by other means, otherwise there would be no point in having, and using them.

The unfortunately selfish, ignorant, blinkered and narrow view of someone, who does not have to get to a destination by a certain time, and who sees no problem, in unnecessarily holding up others, who do have this need, is just that, a selfish, ignorant, blinkered, and narrow view, on why people use, and have to use motor vehicles..

[Unreal]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Nomme de Plum said:

For the first 8 or so years of my driving life together with the last 10 years I've lived by the coast. Very popular with holidaymakers. Whilst it can be very frustrating many of these will drive at well below the posted limit.

It's not worth getting stressed though as the only person that gets impacted is the person who lets themselves get stressed.

Say that to a doctor trying to get to a time critical patient, or ambulance, fire engine, or police cars trying to do the same. How about saying that to a family trying to catch a specific flight or ferry. or a person going to an important job interview. The whole point of using motor vehicles is to get from point A to point B faster than than is possible by other means, otherwise there would be no point in having, and using them.

The unfortunately selfish, ignorant, blinkered and narrow view of someone, who does not have to get to a destination by a certain time, and who sees no problem, in unnecessarily holding up others, who do have this need, is just that, a selfish, ignorant, blinkered, and narrow view, on why people use, and have to use motor vehicles..

Just so I can understand your position, can you think of any examples where someone might justifiably be driving at a speed NOT at or just below the limit?

Edited by Unreal on Tuesday 2nd April 11:47

[Nomme de Plum]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Nomme de Plum said:

For the first 8 or so years of my driving life together with the last 10 years I've lived by the coast. Very popular with holidaymakers. Whilst it can be very frustrating many of these will drive at well below the posted limit.

It's not worth getting stressed though as the only person that gets impacted is the person who lets themselves get stressed.

Say that to a doctor trying to get to a time critical patient, or ambulance, fire engine, or police cars trying to do the same. How about saying that to a family trying to catch a specific flight or ferry. or a person going to an important job interview. The whole point of using motor vehicles is to get from point A to point B faster than than is possible by other means, otherwise there would be no point in having, and using them.

The unfortunately selfish, ignorant, blinkered and narrow view of someone, who does not have to get to a destination by a certain time, and who sees no problem, in unnecessarily holding up others, who do have this need, is just that, a selfish, ignorant, blinkered, and narrow view, on why people use, and have to use motor vehicles..

We have way more than our fair share of ambulance for obvious reasons. People pull over, some better than others. I used to do well over 30,000 work miles annually when i was younger and by the coast. It's just simple matter of planning and managing time accordingly.

Even your post implies you get easily wound up if other drivers do not perform to your desires. I doubt it impacts them.

We also have some very elderly drivers that need a degree of tolerance and as long as they are driving within the law and the police around here certainly consider they do we should make allowances.

The point of having a motor vehicle is to allow people to go from A to B with whatever they need. Speed is not relevant for many motorists.

Are you sure it is not you trying to impose your selfish desires on others?

[simon_harris]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Evanivitch said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Wrong if a person cannot drive at the posted limit where traffic, weather. and road condition s allow they should NOT be driving on public roads at all. Dawdlers are the reason why we gate tailgaters. Both are equally as bad as the other.

Can always count on pistonheads for meat-headed victim blaming.

Can always count on Evanavitch for a brainless comment which is only posted to be contrary to whatever point is being made but which has no basis in reality, or sanity.

FTFY

[Foss62]

Pan Pan Pan said:

That has to be one of the most ridiculous posts ever put on here regarding the subject of vehicle speeds.
If people want to drive safely, and effectively on on public roads, they must FIRST develop a skill set, which shows they are at least able of driving safely, and effectively on public roads.
This is done by taking driving lessons and passing a driving test.
Once the driving test is passed, this shows that the person has developed the MINIMUM standard required by law, for them to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. They then have the opportunity to learn how to drive.
It is those who want to go slower than the posted limits WHO HAVE NOT developed a skill set that allows them to drive safely and effectively on public roads.
It those same persons who must develop a skill set which allows them to drive safely and effectively on public roads. The slow drivers can't expect others to adapt, so why do you say that those who want to legally travel at the posted limits should adapt to slow drivers? it SHOULD be the other way round.
If a person cannot cope with travelling at the posted limits where road and weather conditions allow, then they are not fit to be on the road. If their vehicle is defective, such that it cannot travel safely at the posted limit, then it too is not fit to be on used on a public road, as an MOT test would confirm.

Your thinking is so one-dimensional that I wonder if you even drive. School holidays maybe? To go through the misconceptions:
1. The posted limit is a maximum not a requirement. If a road has a minimum speed limit, traffic is required to comply with that and signs will be in place. Excepting egregious examples of wilfully slow driving, people can choose their below the limit speed on most roads. It is perfectly legal (for example) to carry fragile loads and drive in a manner that avoids sudden changes of speed and/or direction.
2. After passing their tests, people have the opportunity to improve. Few take it, and there is no obligation for them to do so. I am a ROADAR member, with numerous ‘Gold’ re-test passes. What was your improvement strategy?
3. No one drives constantly at the posted limit (hence my original comment). On a particular section of road some people will manage a higher average speed than you, some lower even if everyone drives the same car. Those that are slower than you aren’t necessarily unsafe or ineffective any more than you have to try to emulate those that are faster.
4. Plenty of vehicles cannot travel safely (or at all) at posted limits, and this does not make them MOT failures. The ‘series’ Landrovers equipped with 2 litre diesels that I spent much of my early career driving would easily drop below 60 flat out on a shallow incline. Put a heavy trailer on and you would have no chance. Equally, try driving a supercar at 30 on a road with speed bumps. It’s owner will not thank you for all the shattered pieces of carbon fibre that you bring back.

Edited by Foss62 on Tuesday 2nd April 11:41

[bigothunter]

Nomme de Plum said:

We have way more than our fair share of ambulance for obvious reasons. People pull over, some better than others. I used to do well over 30,000 work miles annually when i was younger and by the coast. It's just simple matter of planning and managing time accordingly.

Even your post implies you get easily wound up if other drivers do not perform to your desires. I doubt it impacts them.

We also have some very elderly drivers that need a degree of tolerance and as long as they are driving within the law and the police around here certainly consider they do we should make allowances.

The point of having a motor vehicle is to allow people to go from A to B with whatever they need. Speed is not relevant for many motorists.

Are you sure it is not you trying to impose your selfish desires on others?

Speed is not relevant for those who perpetually drive short distances. 5 miles at 20mph rather than 30mph only wastes 5 minutes.

But for 50 or 100 mile journeys, the lost time is huge.

[pyruse]

Presumably those advocating for always driving at the limit, don’t slow down for sharp bends on NSL country roads, or when there is fog, or rain or snow, or because the sun momentarily blinded you, because that would mean you are a not a competent driver?
Clearly there are all sorts of reasons why one might drive slower than the posted limits; I can think of quite a few NSL roads where doing 60 would be suicidal. That’s not to excuse someone doing 50 in the middle lane of a clear motorway or crawling at 10mph in an urban area, but some of the more extreme arguments being posted here are manifestly crazy.

[fflump]

MKnight702 said:

Boosted LS1 said:

When I took my lessons and driving test it was stressed that we should accellerate to the posted limit and stick to it where possible so as to have consideration for other road users and not to cause frustration. If you dawdled you'd fail the test.
Nowadays even driving instructors can't manage that let alone keep to the left in my town. It's hardly surprising new drivers are clueless about some matters.

I had this argument with both my brothers recently. They kept banging on about "it's a limit not a target" and I said wrong, it's both. You should always drive close to the limit unless there is a reason you can't, otherwise you are driving in a manner that is potentially holding up other road users. I seem to recall that this was covered by my driving instructor at the time and it was certainly a fail on the driving test at the time if you were overly hesitant.

Can you point to the bit in the Highway Code that states that the speed limit is the target speed as well as the limit?