Rise of the UK 'SUV'
Discussion
Willy Nilly said:
What about when you disappear down the man hole that has had its cover lifted off by the water, or are 4be4's immune to hitting hidden objects submerged by flood water?
Just in case you're being serious:Standard UK manhole opening size is 605 mm, smaller on inside lip. The Jeep's bodywork wouldn't even reach the ground if it hit one dead centre.
Willy Nilly said:
What about when you disappear down the man hole that has had its cover lifted off by the water, or are 4be4's immune to hitting hidden objects submerged by flood water?
No matter what you're driving, you should always check what's under the water you're about to drive through. - If you were unlucky and didn't spot the open manhole during your recce, the chances are that at a normal wading speed the front wheel wouldn't fully drop down the hole. - You'd certainly feel it of course but I don't think you'd "lose a wheel".lrs777 said:
I drove a Patrol and a Disco once both terrible. Bit like driving a transit.Drove a RAV4 and that was actually not too bad to drive but I felt so self conscious in it and was convinced I could see people muttering expletives. I knew then I would never own one. There's always another choice.
I know they are very different now but you cannot escape the high centre of gravity and high unsprung weight and high kerb weight. More than anything though it's the looks, and the seating position I dislike. I prefer to be low to the ground.
I have driven a Disco off road and there it was really rather good. Also drove a Land cruiser on a sand island - no way any other vehicle would have cut it.
There is a right tool for the job for sure. 99% of the time though in the UK any SUV is the wrong tool. More worrying though is the trend for the styling becoming the norm - eg Cashcow sales are unbelieveable. The more people have them the more acceptable they become and maybe one day "normal" cars will be few and far between. I dread that day.
Seeing a genuine 4x4 pulling a trailer or a caravan doesn't offend me. That's their choice. Seeing people driving Jukes thinking they've bought something unique cool and appealing is different.
Don't take this the wrong way, but an old Disco and Patrol can't really qualify you to comment on how newer ones drive, my 9 Year old FFRR drives pretty well and mostly car like but it still boats around corners compared to the new one.I know they are very different now but you cannot escape the high centre of gravity and high unsprung weight and high kerb weight. More than anything though it's the looks, and the seating position I dislike. I prefer to be low to the ground.
I have driven a Disco off road and there it was really rather good. Also drove a Land cruiser on a sand island - no way any other vehicle would have cut it.
There is a right tool for the job for sure. 99% of the time though in the UK any SUV is the wrong tool. More worrying though is the trend for the styling becoming the norm - eg Cashcow sales are unbelieveable. The more people have them the more acceptable they become and maybe one day "normal" cars will be few and far between. I dread that day.
Seeing a genuine 4x4 pulling a trailer or a caravan doesn't offend me. That's their choice. Seeing people driving Jukes thinking they've bought something unique cool and appealing is different.
Try something like a Cayenne Turbo,X5 or the new RR Sport and I think you will be surprised at just how well they drive, they truly are car like and in the case of the RR Sport and Cayenne(the older one anyway not sure about the new one) are good off road and in bad conditions too.
Randy Winkman said:
If someone's not going to do any offroading, in what way is a 4x4 better than a people carrier? Genuine question - I've nothing against 4x4s. But having been in the back of a few, I'd just have thought that people carriers would be roomier, faster, more economical and better handling. And cheaper.
Personally, the FWD and the typical seating position of a FWD will put me off. Secondly, very few are luxurious. If I'm opting for something that isn't about performance then my criteria are very much based around comfort and luxury.
I hugely prefer the seating position that a RWD car affords and this is usually replicated in a 4x4. And it's amongst the 4x4s that you also find more choice at the luxury end.
So for me it boils down to a top end saloon/estate or a 4x4 to meet my requirements in this sector. The 4x4 then offers a more relaxing driving position due to height, better ground clearance, much better in poor conditions than a large RWD barge and just easier to hoist anything in and out.
I'm not sure I would personally ever have a need for the soft roader type vehicle as, for me, I think of them as not really being much different to their slightly lower brothers in just being rather flat utility tools.
lrs777 said:
Drove a RAV4 and that was actually not too bad to drive but I felt so self conscious in it and was convinced I could see people muttering expletives. I knew then I would never own one.
But isn't this a personal insecurity issue that then manifests itself as an outward dislike of what intimidates you?DonkeyApple said:
lrs777 said:
Drove a RAV4 and that was actually not too bad to drive but I felt so self conscious in it and was convinced I could see people muttering expletives. I knew then I would never own one.
But isn't this a personal insecurity issue that then manifests itself as an outward dislike of what intimidates you?
.lrs777 said:
I think that is called Bi-Polar? (just kidding) Thank god you've got a proper tool to compensate though. I think if you added a wee car for daily driving you could be given a clean bill of health!
I'm interested as you seem much less likely to throw insults, is the reason you have the Disco for a genuine need of offroad ability? Doesn't it seem like driving a bus after the car? Wouldn't one of the "allroad" style Estates do the same and be much more enjoyable every day?
Actually, i enjoy driving the Disco, because it's the car i've always wanted. Since 7 i've wanted a LR, it had to be a Disco, that changed from the D1, to the D2 when that was released, then the D3 when it came out.I'm interested as you seem much less likely to throw insults, is the reason you have the Disco for a genuine need of offroad ability? Doesn't it seem like driving a bus after the car? Wouldn't one of the "allroad" style Estates do the same and be much more enjoyable every day?
I have no need for off road ability for my usual commute, when it snow's however, due to my work's location the 4x4 ability is needed, the snow is too deep for a normal car to deal with. I live near where Doogz lives.
Yes, the handling of the car's is totally different but i enjoy both in different ways, the kitcar grips and can cover ground very quickly, the Disco can still cover ground well, but you learn that it communicates differently, you can then find it's sweet spot and work with it to make progress.
I honestly don't enjoy driving a "normal" car as much now, i don't like sitting low down. I like being high up, i've been driving 4x4s longer than "normal" car's and it now is 2nd nature to me, so sitting low down feels strange. The Disco isn't terrible as standard, i've spent a lot of money giving the full suspension and brakes a refresh, every bush is under 5k old. So it's as tight as factory standards so it drives very well.
I bought the Disco to enjoy, the fact it's also a capable 4x4 is something that i can also enjoy and i get great pleasure from taking it off road. That "climb any mountain, ford any stream" feeling is nice to have.
So a "allroad" estate wouldn't sit with me, i wouldn't like it. Too car like to make me consider one.
For a daily driver, i want something comfy with good seats, an auto box and a great sound system. The Disco gives me all of that. The fact it's hugely practical and can do pretty much everything i need.
I know it is not great on fuel, mid 20s average and low 30s on a run, but i never bought it for mpg.
Life is too short to worry about a few mpg here and there. I'm young and i'm driving the car i've always wanted, i've worked hard to get it. At one point i was working 3 seperate jobs a week saving up every penny i could so i could go for it one day.
I have plans to use it for overland travel in a few year's. I've sorted it mechanically so it's now time to get the off road side better with slider's, under body protection etc.
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A.J.M said:
I honestly don't enjoy driving a "normal" car as much now, i don't like sitting low down. I like being high up, i've been driving 4x4s longer than "normal" car's and it now is 2nd nature to me, so sitting low down feels strange.
Surely the kit car must just feel like a revelation when you drive it? lrs777 said:
DonkeyApple said:
But isn't this a personal insecurity issue that then manifests itself as an outward dislike of what intimidates you?
even if 99% of the population drove round with stickers saying "we hate SUV's" you still wouldn't feel in the least bit worried. Good on you. Got my first soft roader 2 weeks ago to cart the kids around and to get them to their farm nursery safely in bad weather - Nissan Murano mk2 - totally love it so much so giving it to the Mrs and looking at a FX50 in the new year. £11k 2008 with 2 years servicing, 2 years breakdown and 2 years nissan warranty only thing i would have wanted is DAB but so far Im hooked plus it gets 24mpg round town which is massive for me - like driving a eco mini compared to the 760 and 5.5 merc.
lrs777 said:
Surely the kit car must just feel like a revelation when you drive it?
Yes and no. The kitcar does make everything else seem wallowy but its a no compromise car, it's there only to drive fast and enjoy driving fast.
I think your overlooking the fact that people can find driving pleasure in large cars. You drive them differently to get the best from them.
A.J.M said:
Yes and no.
The kitcar does make everything else seem wallowy but its a no compromise car, it's there only to drive fast and enjoy driving fast.
I think your overlooking the fact that people can find driving pleasure in large cars. You drive them differently to get the best from them.
This. The kitcar does make everything else seem wallowy but its a no compromise car, it's there only to drive fast and enjoy driving fast.
I think your overlooking the fact that people can find driving pleasure in large cars. You drive them differently to get the best from them.
The Porsche is great fun to push, if you're in the mood for feeling tied to th horizon by a taut bungee and are or a track or don't care about keepin your licence. In traffic it's like being on a racehorse in a crowded stable.
The RR is serene, imperious and relaxing. It engenders a different mindset and a different style of driving.
Sometimes I want one and sonetimes I want the other.
SidewaysSi said:
You get used to it-my Integra R feels like a bus after driving the Caterham.
It takes a few minutes to acclimatise yourself then it feels like home again!
I've had a friends DC5 for a few days and when I first saw it I thought I won't like driving this boy racerish VTEC sewing machine, but it has proved me very wrong, really direct,sweet handling and a bike like engine, I've enjoyed it loads great cars.It takes a few minutes to acclimatise yourself then it feels like home again!
DonkeyApple said:
But they don't. It's just your personal insecurities playing havoc with you. You wrote yourself that you had the issue with regards to the initial feeling of being on a 'pedestool'. It is a personal issue of yours that you are trying to excuse by blaming the product.
Walter Sobchak said:
I've had a friends DC5 for a few days and when I first saw it I thought I won't like driving this boy racerish VTEC sewing machine, but it has proved me very wrong, really direct,sweet handling and a bike like engine, I've enjoyed it loads great cars.
They are great cars-chassis and engines are brilliant. Usual Honda reliability too-more fun IMO than most French hatches.They are very cheap now too but unfortunately a lot have been thrashed.
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