VW Golf 7 R -- Chipped -- 0 to 60 in 4 Seconds...

[Blown2CV]

nickfrog said:

Blown2CV said:

i didn't say RWD is useless, just that most people have no idea why it's better and couldn't put it into words if they tried.

I did try (see below). Not sure why you keep referring to "most people" or "majority" : what does it matter if they don't? How does that affect you ?

nickfrog said:

But who cares about the majority? Who cares about why OTHER people choose a drivetrain ?

As you say, if a car drives well, it doesn't really matter what wheels are driven. And the likelihood of a RWD car allowing a sound dynamic basis is higher in terms of weight distribution (and therefore outright lateral grip), polar moment of inertia and therefore handling plus ability to change direction. Not to mention a lower cog in some cases. OK you compromise traction management in low friction situation but personally I don't mind using right foot modulation, even if I am slower : every day is a school day !
A 4wd front engine car will often be more compromised in terms of added weight and/or will have the entire block ahead of the front axle (VAG).
So it's a personal choice/preference and surely many driving enthusiasts choose RWD knowingly for its obvious inherent benefits.

because face it, most of us on here are the majority of people. We are not all fking racing drivers, track heroes, amateur legends etc. We might like cars but when driving on the road (and i am not sure about you, but i do all of my driving on a road) you're on the bell curve (and some of us appear to be more bells than curves). No-one has ever fking said that the Golf R is an extreme racing car designed to be part of a large fleet within 0.002% of the population to use one weekend each summer and hermetically climate stored for the rest of the year and sold at a gigantic profit after a short ownership. It's a car made to be driven every day, to cope with what our roads throw at it, to be docile or fast as required, to be practical and economical when needed. It's a car for most people who like a quick car, but to be fking honest can't be doing with straight pipes, crashing suspension, snap oversteer, blistering ram effect heat, 7mpg cars MOST of the time. I'm getting totally sick of this "but it's not a REAL petrolheads car" bullst from people that have never driven one, and are just saying it to be contrary.

[anonymous-user]

My, my, did radio 4 crash again, very angry bloke? It seems to me that if you are that insecure about your choices that you have to go off on a rant then you need to have a word with yourself. You're the one questioning RWD, you're the one claiming things are more suitable for others yet you're also the one getting your knickers in a twist when someone says 'it's just a Golf'

Which it is.

[Blown2CV]

yonex said:

My, my, did radio 4 crash again, very angry bloke? It seems to me that if you are that insecure about your choices that you have to go off on a rant then you need to have a word with yourself. You're the one questioning RWD, you're the one claiming things are more suitable for others yet you're also the one getting your knickers in a twist when someone says 'it's just a Golf'

Which it is.

am i fk questioning RWD. I am questioning the logic of the arguments used to do down a perfectly decent car, and also the utter tools that use RWD as justification why the Golf must definitely, surely, hopefully be st. You're absolutely right, it is just a golf, so why pray tell do you give a fk? Literally, what difference does it make to your life? If you want to read back (which you won't) my very long post explains that i am very happy with the choice i made, and after 2 years i am on to the next car whilst you are the other whiners continue to gripe on about why you hypothetically think it might not be the best car ever made from your ripped armchair, having never driven the fking thing. Enjoy your utterly pointless argument, because this whole perpetual argument really, really is fking, fking, fking pointless. Just get on with your lives.

[anonymous-user]

Blown2CV said:

am i fk questioning RWD. I am questioning the logic of the arguments used to do down a perfectly decent car, and also the utter tools that use RWD as justification why the Golf must definitely, surely, hopefully be st. You're absolutely right, it is just a golf, so why pray tell do you give a fk? Literally, what difference does it make to your life? If you want to read back (which you won't) my very long post explains that i am very happy with the choice i made, and after 2 years i am on to the next car whilst you are the other whiners continue to gripe on about why you hypothetically think it might not be the best car ever made from your ripped armchair, having never driven the fking thing. Enjoy your utterly pointless argument, because this whole perpetual argument really, really is fking, fking, fking pointless. Just get on with your lives.

I don't, I just find your hypocrisy confusing. Apparently people who prefer different criteria to you are 'tools' but your 'logic' is flawless. Why do you give a damn either way?

[Nezquick]

yonex said:

My, my, did radio 4 crash again, very angry bloke? It seems to me that if you are that insecure about your choices that you have to go off on a rant then you need to have a word with yourself. You're the one questioning RWD, you're the one claiming things are more suitable for others yet you're also the one getting your knickers in a twist when someone says 'it's just a Golf'

Which it is.

To be fair the man's got a point. I bought the M235i. Not because it's rwd but because it was a better deal. I think you'll find that more than 50% of people who tried/drove a Golf R would say that it was more than enough for everything they wanted out of a car.

[tonyb1968]

Driven and owned fwd, rwd & awd, liked them all for different reasons.
AWD is probably the easiest to get the most out of, great off the line traction and good on loose surfaces, but how many times do you take it off road?
FWD, its a good compromise, my latest "performance" fwd has 270bhp as standard, it can suffer its issues and off the line traction is never going to be its forte due to weight distribution/traction for doing 0-60.... but mid range and handling are very good.
RWD, ok they were big barges but comfy, never really had a performance rwd but I can see the benefits of the weight distribution on fast off the line runs, physics pushing the rear down and hence good grip, probably the hardest to drive fast but no doubt its the most fun

[Huff]

Amzaed how many proponents - for any flavour - that haven't yet mentioned communication - that feedback, esp the steering, that makes a drive a joy at any speed (even low). RWD there, every.single.time.

And for those 'needing' awd for traction in poor road conditons I can only attribute very limited imagination or experience. Look, we've had 4-wheel brakes for 100years now; mostly that means RWD cars have had FW brakes. So if you don't have enough traction accelerating with RWD only what the heck do you expect to happen should you want /need to turn-in sharply, let alone brake for something not obvious when you 'launched'? AWD for teh unthinking likely means you hit things harder, rather than measure your scope accurately.

Edited by Huff on Thursday 31st March 22:35

[SidewaysSi]

Blown2CV said:

am i fk questioning RWD. I am questioning the logic of the arguments used to do down a perfectly decent car, and also the utter tools that use RWD as justification why the Golf must definitely, surely, hopefully be st. You're absolutely right, it is just a golf, so why pray tell do you give a fk? Literally, what difference does it make to your life? If you want to read back (which you won't) my very long post explains that i am very happy with the choice i made, and after 2 years i am on to the next car whilst you are the other whiners continue to gripe on about why you hypothetically think it might not be the best car ever made from your ripped armchair, having never driven the fking thing. Enjoy your utterly pointless argument, because this whole perpetual argument really, really is fking, fking, fking pointless. Just get on with your lives.

I love RWD and feeling the back end move under power. I am no driving god but can easily see the benefits of RWD. Assuming people don't care about which wheels are driven is blatantly wrong.

[Blown2CV]

SidewaysSi said:

Blown2CV said:

am i fk questioning RWD. I am questioning the logic of the arguments used to do down a perfectly decent car, and also the utter tools that use RWD as justification why the Golf must definitely, surely, hopefully be st. You're absolutely right, it is just a golf, so why pray tell do you give a fk? Literally, what difference does it make to your life? If you want to read back (which you won't) my very long post explains that i am very happy with the choice i made, and after 2 years i am on to the next car whilst you are the other whiners continue to gripe on about why you hypothetically think it might not be the best car ever made from your ripped armchair, having never driven the fking thing. Enjoy your utterly pointless argument, because this whole perpetual argument really, really is fking, fking, fking pointless. Just get on with your lives.

I love RWD and feeling the back end move under power. I am no driving god but can easily see the benefits of RWD. Assuming people don't care about which wheels are driven is blatantly wrong.

that's evident from your username. Tell me, do you seek to get sideways on your daily commute? Where the fk have i said no-one cares about RWD though? This is like arguing with religious people over religion. All I said was most people don't give a fk, and the car drives really well. No-one drifts on a daily basis. Guess what, and this will blow your mind, i've never used the launch control either - and i probably won't use it before i give the car back! I bet you really hate me now?

[Blown2CV]

yonex said:

Blown2CV said:

am i fk questioning RWD. I am questioning the logic of the arguments used to do down a perfectly decent car, and also the utter tools that use RWD as justification why the Golf must definitely, surely, hopefully be st. You're absolutely right, it is just a golf, so why pray tell do you give a fk? Literally, what difference does it make to your life? If you want to read back (which you won't) my very long post explains that i am very happy with the choice i made, and after 2 years i am on to the next car whilst you are the other whiners continue to gripe on about why you hypothetically think it might not be the best car ever made from your ripped armchair, having never driven the fking thing. Enjoy your utterly pointless argument, because this whole perpetual argument really, really is fking, fking, fking pointless. Just get on with your lives.

I don't, I just find your hypocrisy confusing. Apparently people who prefer different criteria to you are 'tools' but your 'logic' is flawless. Why do you give a damn either way?

nope i am saying that anyone who uses RWD vs 4WD as a reason to say the Golf must definitely be ste when they haven't even driven it is an absolute fking tool. Maybe you fit squarely into that category, but i don't know. I wouldn't like to assume, unlike just about everyone on the negative side in this thread, and all the other damn threads on the subject.

[nickfrog]

Blown2CV said:

nickfrog said:

Blown2CV said:

i didn't say RWD is useless, just that most people have no idea why it's better and couldn't put it into words if they tried.

I did try (see below). Not sure why you keep referring to "most people" or "majority" : what does it matter if they don't? How does that affect you ?

nickfrog said:

But who cares about the majority? Who cares about why OTHER people choose a drivetrain ?

As you say, if a car drives well, it doesn't really matter what wheels are driven. And the likelihood of a RWD car allowing a sound dynamic basis is higher in terms of weight distribution (and therefore outright lateral grip), polar moment of inertia and therefore handling plus ability to change direction. Not to mention a lower cog in some cases. OK you compromise traction management in low friction situation but personally I don't mind using right foot modulation, even if I am slower : every day is a school day !
A 4wd front engine car will often be more compromised in terms of added weight and/or will have the entire block ahead of the front axle (VAG).
So it's a personal choice/preference and surely many driving enthusiasts choose RWD knowingly for its obvious inherent benefits.

because face it, most of us on here are the majority of people. We are not all fking racing drivers, track heroes, amateur legends etc. We might like cars but when driving on the road (and i am not sure about you, but i do all of my driving on a road) you're on the bell curve (and some of us appear to be more bells than curves). No-one has ever fking said that the Golf R is an extreme racing car designed to be part of a large fleet within 0.002% of the population to use one weekend each summer and hermetically climate stored for the rest of the year and sold at a gigantic profit after a short ownership. It's a car made to be driven every day, to cope with what our roads throw at it, to be docile or fast as required, to be practical and economical when needed. It's a car for most people who like a quick car, but to be fking honest can't be doing with straight pipes, crashing suspension, snap oversteer, blistering ram effect heat, 7mpg cars MOST of the time. I'm getting totally sick of this "but it's not a REAL petrolheads car" bullst from people that have never driven one, and are just saying it to be contrary.

Why are you so angry ? Why have you gone totally binary ? Why do you keep going on about majority and bell curves ? It really doesn't take much track use to appreciate a balanced RWD chassis so why are you talking about racing drivers (those don't choose their car). You choose NOT to do any track days, that's fine and dandy. Personally I couldn't stop doing them but each to their own. You prefer a 4wd Golf for road use ? No probs, it's a great car (I have driven it). I prefer the inherent advantages of RWD (some RWD are st too btw, no binary thinking at my end), however shockingly slow that makes me (is that humble enough and non-DG enough for you ?). I am in a massive majority of people amongst my track going friends who prefer rwd for a variety of reasons (some of them don't know why btw but they still come along, is that balanced enough for you?) and for the road, I still prefer a good chassis, and those tend to be RWD but conversely I am getting a Megane RS because it's a good steer, like a DC2 / DC5 would be. I am yet to drive a truly great 4wd car but I am sure it will happen (is that open minded enough for you?).
I genuinely have no idea what your issue is but can I suggest you work on your anger management rather than worry about the reasons why others choose a car, however absurd those are ?

Oh, can I suggest a track day ? It might change your perspective but don't forget to bring your humility with you.

[AW111]

Is Blown2CV a car salesman?

[Derwins Revenge]

Blown2CV said:

that's evident from your username. Tell me, do you seek to get sideways on your daily commute? Where the fk have i said no-one cares about RWD though? This is like arguing with religious people over religion. All I said was most people don't give a fk, and the car drives really well. No-one drifts on a daily basis. Guess what, and this will blow your mind, i've never used the launch control either - and i probably won't use it before i give the car back! I bet you really hate me now?

Ignoring all the arguments, you really should try the launch control before you get rid of your R, it's great fun. At least it is for people like myself who don't arrive at the office sideways in a cloud of tyre smoke every day. I suppose many PH'ers would be suitably unimpressed, but it knocked my socks off the first time. I've used it 3 or 4 more times since and it doesn't lose it's appeal. (I know, I must be a moron because I enjoy straight line acceleration rather than drifting off of roundabouts).

Disclaimer before it kicks-off again in here: I have never used LC in town, at lights etc, or to impress or amuse anybody but myself. Only ever on confirmed deserted country roads (miles of line of sight) and only up to sensible speeds. There.

[Tuvra]

Derwins Revenge said:

Ignoring all the arguments, you really should try the launch control before you get rid of your R, it's great fun. At least it is for people like myself who don't arrive at the office sideways in a cloud of tyre smoke every day. I suppose many PH'ers would be suitably unimpressed, but it knocked my socks off the first time. I've used it 3 or 4 more times since and it doesn't lose it's appeal. (I know, I must be a moron because I enjoy straight line acceleration rather than drifting off of roundabouts).

Disclaimer before it kicks-off again in here: I have never used LC in town, at lights etc, or to impress or amuse anybody but myself. Only ever on confirmed deserted country roads (miles of line of sight) and only up to sensible speeds. There.

Lean forward and then launch, strange sensation

[SidewaysSi]

Blown2CV said:

SidewaysSi said:

Blown2CV said:

am i fk questioning RWD. I am questioning the logic of the arguments used to do down a perfectly decent car, and also the utter tools that use RWD as justification why the Golf must definitely, surely, hopefully be st. You're absolutely right, it is just a golf, so why pray tell do you give a fk? Literally, what difference does it make to your life? If you want to read back (which you won't) my very long post explains that i am very happy with the choice i made, and after 2 years i am on to the next car whilst you are the other whiners continue to gripe on about why you hypothetically think it might not be the best car ever made from your ripped armchair, having never driven the fking thing. Enjoy your utterly pointless argument, because this whole perpetual argument really, really is fking, fking, fking pointless. Just get on with your lives.

I love RWD and feeling the back end move under power. I am no driving god but can easily see the benefits of RWD. Assuming people don't care about which wheels are driven is blatantly wrong.

that's evident from your username. Tell me, do you seek to get sideways on your daily commute? Where the fk have i said no-one cares about RWD though? This is like arguing with religious people over religion. All I said was most people don't give a fk, and the car drives really well. No-one drifts on a daily basis. Guess what, and this will blow your mind, i've never used the launch control either - and i probably won't use it before i give the car back! I bet you really hate me now?

I take the tube to work but yes, on the weekends even going to the shops I can push the rear end of my car out a few degrees. Quite frankly, I don't care what other people think - for me, RWD does make a difference. Saying that, I did love my Integra R and 205 GTI. For me, the Golf holds little interest - would be a Megane Trophy everytime.

As for launch control, I genuinely don't want such rubbish in my car.

[OldBob]

Opinions are like aholes - so here's mine.

Most driving is for functional purposes and it's this aspect that particular Wheel Drives have some important relative advantages.

Unless you are a race driver then the word FUN is probably mostly important on track and spirited (legal) road driving.
You can have fun with all of the different Wheel Drive combo's.
I have access to and driven all the combo's on a number of different tracks and have had fun in all of them. Inc Golf R, which is really accomplished and can hang with many "purer" sports cars....which is fun in itself too.

We need to lighten up.

[Pixelpeep7r]

The Golf R - Motoring's very own Marmite.

The amusing thing here is people are confusing what they like for what other people should like.

We are all individuals.

one thing though..

not once have i seen anyone say 'its just a one series' to anyone saying how much they enjoy their 135i

[OldBob]

^ Indeed!


Still now there's a Focus RS that the mags can hang their "better drivers car" baggage on (whilst reluctantly admitting the Golf R still does most things better) perhaps we can have threads about why the Focus RS is sh*te compared to X,Y, Z instead lol

[Pixelpeep7r]

OldBob said:

^ Indeed!


Still now there's a Focus RS that the mags can hang their "better drivers car" baggage on (whilst reluctantly admitting the Golf R still does most things better) perhaps we can have threads about why the Focus RS is sh*te compared to X,Y, Z instead lol

but its just a little focus.

[SuperchargedVR6]

Pixelpeep7r said:

The Golf R - Motoring's very own Marmite.

The amusing thing here is people are confusing what they like for what other people should like.

We are all individuals.

one thing though..

not once have i seen anyone say 'its just a one series' to anyone saying how much they enjoy their 135i

Quite, and nobody is 'allowed' to like a VAG these days. The 135i hasn't met quite the same derision because: RWD and 6 cylinder. The archetypal core ingredients that roundabout drifting captains consider to be the only things worth having in a car.

I bet if there was a PistonHeads RE: "VW's 300hp 4WD Golf concept" article 5 years ago. People would be like, yeah that's cool, hope it goes into production.

But now that it's here, it's been leased a lot and is consequently seen on the roads in reasonable numbers, it's a meh car. And anything popular these days is automatically despised by hipsters. iPhones, SUVs, VAGs (in white especially) to name but a few.

I would put money on quite a few R bashers, who've never driven one, would come unstuck trying to beat a well piloted one on tough B roads.