Show us your crash pics!!

[heebeegeetee]

Teddy Lop said:

Good point comrade. We could probably eliminate 90% of cars on the road.

I would imagine at least 90% of the cars on the road are family oriented conveyances so I'm not sure about that... or the relevance of trucks and buses, but never mind.

[trails]

Piginapoke said:

paulguitar said:

You'd have to be a berk to crash a brand-new car within 30 mins. Looks like a built-up area too, it was probably seriously stupid driving. Luckily it looks like no one else was taken out.

He needs to be grateful that no-one was on the pavement- idiotic driving and hopefully a ban coming.

Ahh, eye witnesses...do either of you gents fancy sharing what happened, for the rest of us that weren't there?

[TREMAiNE]

MB140 said:

MDUBZ said:

Tread pattern on the front right checks out as cup2 rather than say 4s or 5s tyres which would be a bit more forgiving in the cold or wet.. tyre compounds snd wall stiffness can cause real issues in the wet, I’ve had some arse twitching moments in far less exotic machines with OEM rubber fitted..

Indeed my wife used to own a Mustang GT that came on some stty Pierelli tyres. I have some dashcam footage of where she literally touched the throttle coming of a roundabout in 2°C temps, the thing was 45° sideways in a heartbeat. Swapped for 4S tyres and never had a problem after that. I do wonder if this Porsche crash was a “Oi Watch This” moment.

Edited by MB140 on Sunday 3rd March 15:37

I can echo that, on the factory Pirellis, my Mustang GT would properly kick out in the wet with absolute minimal throttle.

While there is a strong chance poor driving caused this, it also wouldn't surprise me if the back end stepped out a sensible speed and inexperience caused the driver to over-correct and the whole thing ended up like this.

[5s Alive]

trails said:

Piginapoke said:

paulguitar said:

You'd have to be a berk to crash a brand-new car within 30 mins. Looks like a built-up area too, it was probably seriously stupid driving. Luckily it looks like no one else was taken out.

He needs to be grateful that no-one was on the pavement- idiotic driving and hopefully a ban coming.

Ahh, eye witnesses...do either of you gents fancy sharing what happened, for the rest of us that weren't there?

It was doing 40mph in 5th when the escaping warp drive forces from a passing UFO's damaged star drive launched it off the road at twice the speed.

[downthepub]

BckFlash said:

For anyone unfamiliar with where this is, it’s North Anderson Drive in Aberdeen - a busy 40mph section of dual carriageway.

This section is slightly uphill, easy easy corner and, probably most importantly, between 2 roundabouts. Playing fields on one side and houses on the other. So there’ll have been plenty witnesses!

Same section as I saw a Koenigsegg CCX in the piddling rain a few years ago…but that’s by the by!

Blimey, now you've pointed it out, I know exactly where that is - it's one of my regular dog walking routes.

[BckFlash]

downthepub said:

Blimey, now you've pointed it out, I know exactly where that is - it's one of my regular dog walking routes.

Just down from the Egg & Dart roundabout.

It’s ttted a lamppost and a tree on its way to the fence. Passed by earlier on!

[5s Alive]

BckFlash said:

Just down from the Egg & Dart roundabout.

It’s ttted a lamppost and a tree on its way to the fence. Passed by earlier on!

ttted in more than one respect ...

Says the man who spun one of Knockhill's race cars into the tyre wall recently...

[PaulD86]

BckFlash said:

MB140 said:

To this

For anyone unfamiliar with where this is, it’s North Anderson Drive in Aberdeen - a busy 40mph section of dual carriageway.

This section is slightly uphill, easy easy corner and, probably most importantly, between 2 roundabouts. Playing fields on one side and houses on the other. So there’ll have been plenty witnesses!

Same section as I saw a Koenigsegg CCX in the piddling rain a few years ago…but that’s by the by!

The crash took place on Saturday morning, before 0700. The council received a call around 0650 saying that one of the lighting columns had been hit. So the accident likely was a bit before that. At the time RSTs (road surface temperatures) were barely above 0 (gritting had been carried out the previous day). The roads were damp, but not icy. If it was on Cup 2s I suspect the grip levels would have been pretty low, however that also shouldn't really have been a surpise to anyone and I'd have thought the traction and stability control systems would have dealt with it if they were on. If they weren't on then I'm curious why you'd be driving in those conditions in a brand new car that isn't run in with everything off. Especially in the city in a 40. Although for whatever reason, people have a habit of booting it up that short section between the roundabouts. I know as I live a few hundred metres from there and can hear them.

[havoc]

BckFlash said:

MB140 said:

To this

For anyone unfamiliar with where this is, it’s North Anderson Drive in Aberdeen - a busy 40mph section of dual carriageway.

This section is slightly uphill, easy easy corner and, probably most importantly, between 2 roundabouts. Playing fields on one side and houses on the other. So there’ll have been plenty witnesses!

A roundabout you say?

Any chance this could have been momentum-induced? i.e. turns into the roundabout, thinks "this is lovely", then almost immediately swings the wheel in the other direction to exit the r'bout and the back-end steps out due to lack of grip and the pendulum of an engine still largely at the back...

[PaulD86]

havoc said:

A roundabout you say?

Any chance this could have been momentum-induced? i.e. turns into the roundabout, thinks "this is lovely", then almost immediately swings the wheel in the other direction to exit the r'bout and the back-end steps out due to lack of grip and the pendulum of an engine still largely at the back...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.1387536,-2.1412812,3a,49.1y,171.92h,92.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI5RtnVZpL0BKzTI_N_38kA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

It was over 250m from the roundabout. The above is the tree and lighting column that were hit.

[havoc]

Teddy Lop said:

I'd expect someone dropping whatever the asking is on one of these to know and understand more about what it is than whatever oik employed by the dealership to hand it over does and the idea he should give you the "talk" would be patronising and cringeworthy, the last dealer who tried to do such to me had just slapped a pair of alpha acelleras finest ditchfinders on the arse of my 330ci and while he wasnt wrong, the thing as set up probably wasn't that far off what we're discussing, the funkwit shouldn't really have the right to sell or discuss performance cars, should stick to yarrises. Yarris up his harris lol.

Although the world being what it is these days I'd be surprised Porsche didn't make you sign a disclaimer!

I can't disagree, although I do recall BMW asking buyers to sign a waiver for the E46 CSL if that was being supplied with the standard-fit Cup tyres.

...so it wouldn't surprise me if Porsche did the same.

What would be more appropriate, particularly for this sort of car, is a complimentary driver training course prior to handover. A bit of skid-pan work, a bit of track-time with an instructor, possibly starting off in a 'lesser' car doing the same things first but slower, before moving onto the halo car. Yes you'll always get the powerfully-built company director who knows it all and doesn't want to bother, but I'd wager most buyers would enjoy a free mess-around / bit of instructor time.

[havoc]

PaulD86 said:

havoc said:

A roundabout you say?

Any chance this could have been momentum-induced? i.e. turns into the roundabout, thinks "this is lovely", then almost immediately swings the wheel in the other direction to exit the r'bout and the back-end steps out due to lack of grip and the pendulum of an engine still largely at the back...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.1387536,-2.1412812,3a,49.1y,171.92h,92.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI5RtnVZpL0BKzTI_N_38kA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

It was over 250m from the roundabout. The above is the tree and lighting column that were hit.

OK, bit far to drag a tank-slapper out!

Odd spot to lose it on though - that's a gentle bend. And not an obvious place for there to be a diesel spill or some shadow leaving an icy patch on the road.

Be nice to see some dashcam footage, but it does have the ring of either "watch this" or another road user not paying attention and causing the Porsche driver to take avoiding action on very cold tyres. Probably (as others have suggested) combined with excessive speed, given the damage caused.

[CKY]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Fermit said:

MB140 said:

Slightly off topic as NOT my crash. But this one came up on my local TIPEC Porsche Owners Page.

Apparently it’s got 27, yes 27 miles on the clock and was picked up from the showroom just 30 minutes before its new owner did this.

From this



To this

fkadoodle do. That will be one mortified bloke.

Had the owner any experience with cars before?

Beyond 'giving it some' out of a car meet for all the 12 year olds with their iPhones, it appears not. Oh well, saves them having to watch their 'investment' drop in value like a stone like a normal car I suppose.

[BrettMRC]

Cold tyres, cold surface - game over.

[havoc]

BrettMRC said:

Cold tyres, cold surface - game over.

My NSX has been running Yokohama AD08R's for at least 7 or 8 years.

...and whilst I don't choose to take it out in icy conditions, I've never had a problem when it's been cold/greasy. Mainly because I respect the tyres it's got on it and it's not got a massive modern torque curve to easily upset those tyres.

[The Wookie]

PaulD86 said:

I suspect the grip levels would have been pretty low, however that also shouldn't really have been a surpise to anyone and I'd have thought the traction and stability control systems would have dealt with it if they were on. If they weren't on then I'm curious why you'd be driving in those conditions in a brand new car that isn't run in with everything off.

ESP systems aren’t totally infallible and ultimately they have to abide by the laws of physics so if the driver does something that creates a big enough issue that the ESP doesn’t have the scope or response to deal with then it will be a shunt.

Inevitably on that type of car they’re setup to be a bit more slack to respond so they’re not intervening all the time, combined with performance tyres that will yield grip more quickly in cold/wet conditions then it gives a bigger window of opportunity for it to go wrong.

It’s a bit more surprising that it happened in a Porsche vs say, something like a Ferrari though. I don’t know what the newer ones are like but the old 430’s, 458’s etc could still catch you out in cold/wet conditions, even in the low grip setting, even if you weren’t being stupid. The Porsche ‘normal’ settings are pretty idiot proof IME.

[Krikkit]

The Wookie said:

PaulD86 said:

I suspect the grip levels would have been pretty low, however that also shouldn't really have been a surpise to anyone and I'd have thought the traction and stability control systems would have dealt with it if they were on. If they weren't on then I'm curious why you'd be driving in those conditions in a brand new car that isn't run in with everything off.

ESP systems aren’t totally infallible and ultimately they have to abide by the laws of physics so if the driver does something that creates a big enough issue that the ESP doesn’t have the scope or response to deal with then it will be a shunt.

Inevitably on that type of car they’re setup to be a bit more slack to respond so they’re not intervening all the time, combined with performance tyres that will yield grip more quickly in cold/wet conditions then it gives a bigger window of opportunity for it to go wrong.

It’s a bit more surprising that it happened in a Porsche vs say, something like a Ferrari though. I don’t know what the newer ones are like but the old 430’s, 458’s etc could still catch you out in cold/wet conditions, even in the low grip setting, even if you weren’t being stupid. The Porsche ‘normal’ settings are pretty idiot proof IME.

I wonder if they had it in "Sport" for active exhaust noise and it's slackened off the ESP intervention a bit more than normal?

[E63eeeeee...]

BrettMRC said:

Cold tyres, cold surface - game over.

No, that's in no way an inevitability. I've spent the last two winters driving a 470 lb/ft rear wheel drive car to Scotland and back on summer tyres, the coldest temperature I saw was -11c. I can count the number of hairy moments, never mind times I fked up enough to damage every corner of the thing, on the fingers of one head.

The odds this wasn't driver error/ stupidity are trivial, but lots of people seem desperate to find some other explanation.

[PaulD86]

The Wookie said:

It’s a bit more surprising that it happened in a Porsche vs say, something like a Ferrari though. I don’t know what the newer ones are like but the old 430’s, 458’s etc could still catch you out in cold/wet conditions, even in the low grip setting, even if you weren’t being stupid. The Porsche ‘normal’ settings are pretty idiot proof IME.

Absolutely get your point re ESP systems, but the above echoes my thoughts having driven a good few Porsches (and owning one) in all manner of conditions from snow to sun. It's an odd spot to lose a car, and if I'd just taken delivery of a brand new GT3 I'd personally not be using the upper rev range during running in. Suspect we'll never know exactly what happened, but a sad end to a beautifully spec'd car. Oak green with satin aurum wheels looks amazing imo. Though better still in one piece!

[Fastdruid]

PaulD86 said:

The Wookie said:

It’s a bit more surprising that it happened in a Porsche vs say, something like a Ferrari though. I don’t know what the newer ones are like but the old 430’s, 458’s etc could still catch you out in cold/wet conditions, even in the low grip setting, even if you weren’t being stupid. The Porsche ‘normal’ settings are pretty idiot proof IME.

Absolutely get your point re ESP systems, but the above echoes my thoughts having driven a good few Porsches (and owning one) in all manner of conditions from snow to sun. It's an odd spot to lose a car, and if I'd just taken delivery of a brand new GT3 I'd personally not be using the upper rev range during running in.

Low revs with a torquey powerful engine can make it worse. If you're high up in the revs but not putting significant power down you've not got much throttle on, so if it starts to spin up there is only a relatively small amount of relatively slow wheel acceleration and it'll not overspeed much before it'll hit the limiter.

If on the other hand you're low down in the revs, a heft dose of throttle on (because its not making as much power there) then if it spins up then it'll *really* spin up, the wheel speed will be massively faster than the front and you'll end up backwards through a hedge.

Even more so if it's something turbo'd (I think the GT3 isn't FI but I'm no beardy enough on my Porches to be certain).