My first spin on ice.....
Discussion
The roads this morning round here where sheet ice! It had rained over night then frozen into the morning, I took a back road to avoid traffic but I soon realised I should have stayed on the main roads.
Coming down a hill towards a medium left hander, started braking and felt the wheels starting to lock (No ABS), went down a gear then off the brakes turned in and hoped for the best, under steered on to the other side of the road but nothing coming and I was round fine. Next corner I had slowed right down, just as well as there was a Focus in the ditch on the outside.
Most the rest of my journey was done at 5-10MPH (Whilst being tailgated by a tit in a Freelander), good fun though and plenty of cars struggling with traction some even turning back and giving up. Traction was no bother for me (Defender 110) although I did engage difflock once to make sure I got to the top of a hill.
Only passed my test last Thursday so its all a learning experience.
Coming down a hill towards a medium left hander, started braking and felt the wheels starting to lock (No ABS), went down a gear then off the brakes turned in and hoped for the best, under steered on to the other side of the road but nothing coming and I was round fine. Next corner I had slowed right down, just as well as there was a Focus in the ditch on the outside.
Most the rest of my journey was done at 5-10MPH (Whilst being tailgated by a tit in a Freelander), good fun though and plenty of cars struggling with traction some even turning back and giving up. Traction was no bother for me (Defender 110) although I did engage difflock once to make sure I got to the top of a hill.
Only passed my test last Thursday so its all a learning experience.
P I Staker said:
Whilst being tailgated by a tit in a Freelander
I had this a LOT last year in that bad snow - I was doing about 20-30 which felt fast and I had all sorts of idiots in 4x4s doing just that - In fact one overtook me while the snow was heavy, visibility was poor and it was dark.They almost feel like they have a right to drive like a moron just because they have a 4x4...
Adding my voice to the 'P-Zero should be avoided in winter' lot. A bitter winter in Ohio + Mustang on P-Zero was interesting to say the least, they seemed to give fine grip on compacted snow/icy slush but on actual tarmac or concrete in low temps, forget it. On the other hand been incredibly impressed by the Pilot Sports on my Porsche since arriving back in the UK.
The problem with ice on UK roads in winter is we don't get enough snow along with it; ice is less of a problem with slushy compacted snow on top for visibility and something to grip onto, pure black ice that you can't account for or see in advance on roads that are otherwise visually identical year-round is the nightmare.
The problem with ice on UK roads in winter is we don't get enough snow along with it; ice is less of a problem with slushy compacted snow on top for visibility and something to grip onto, pure black ice that you can't account for or see in advance on roads that are otherwise visually identical year-round is the nightmare.
james_tigerwoods said:
P I Staker said:
Whilst being tailgated by a tit in a Freelander
I had this a LOT last year in that bad snow - I was doing about 20-30 which felt fast and I had all sorts of idiots in 4x4s doing just that - In fact one overtook me while the snow was heavy, visibility was poor and it was dark.They almost feel like they have a right to drive like a moron just because they have a 4x4...
MSTRBKR said:
The Freelander does have some pretty trick technology for driving in snow though, which will give people more confidence. Not saying the overtake or tailgating is cool but it is pretty good in the snow.
True, but what happens when the technology and confidence runs out.... Fiery ball of death....Garlick said:
CoolHands said:
(drumroll) what tyres?
Not winters Pirelli P-Zero's all round. Recent too.
My car has P Zero Corsa tyres as OEM kit. They are near enough lethal in the cold and wet. Once warm they grip and are fantastic but when it's cold and wet they are bloody awful. Only option for me was a set of winter tyres and a set of wheels since the manufacturer did not check that Pirelli Sotto Zero tyres would fit the standard wheels.
Glad to hear you got away with this one.
P I Staker said:
The roads this morning round here where sheet ice! It had rained over night then frozen into the morning, I took a back road to avoid traffic but I soon realised I should have stayed on the main roads.
Coming down a hill towards a medium left hander, started braking and felt the wheels starting to lock (No ABS), went down a gear then off the brakes turned in and hoped for the best, under steered on to the other side of the road but nothing coming and I was round fine. Next corner I had slowed right down, just as well as there was a Focus in the ditch on the outside.
Most the rest of my journey was done at 5-10MPH (Whilst being tailgated by a tit in a Freelander), good fun though and plenty of cars struggling with traction some even turning back and giving up. Traction was no bother for me (Defender 110) although I did engage difflock once to make sure I got to the top of a hill.
Only passed my test last Thursday so its all a learning experience.
If you really just passed your test, perhaps part of the learning experience should be this. You did entirely the right thing after your skid, in adapting your driving to you limits in that car. However instead of seeing the Freelander driver as a 'tit' how about recognising that perhaps he is in a vehicle which is immensely more competent than yours in these conditions, and letting him pass?Coming down a hill towards a medium left hander, started braking and felt the wheels starting to lock (No ABS), went down a gear then off the brakes turned in and hoped for the best, under steered on to the other side of the road but nothing coming and I was round fine. Next corner I had slowed right down, just as well as there was a Focus in the ditch on the outside.
Most the rest of my journey was done at 5-10MPH (Whilst being tailgated by a tit in a Freelander), good fun though and plenty of cars struggling with traction some even turning back and giving up. Traction was no bother for me (Defender 110) although I did engage difflock once to make sure I got to the top of a hill.
Only passed my test last Thursday so its all a learning experience.
I'm sure we all know the experience of being stuck behind a slow driver at 30mph on an NSL road. It's no different when you're behind a car crawling in bad conditions, when your car can handle the conditions better. I know all the haters will now say 4x4's can't stop in the snow or ice any better than any other car, but that's just because they haven't driven them!
bozmandb9 said:
If you really just passed your test, perhaps part of the learning experience should be this. You did entirely the right thing after your skid, in adapting your driving to you limits in that car. However instead of seeing the Freelander driver as a 'tit' how about recognising that perhaps he is in a vehicle which is immensely more competent than yours in these conditions, and letting him pass?
I'm sure we all know the experience of being stuck behind a slow driver at 30mph on an NSL road. It's no different when you're behind a car crawling in bad conditions, when your car can handle the conditions better. I know all the haters will now say 4x4's can't stop in the snow or ice any better than any other car, but that's just because they haven't driven them!
I know exactly what you mean but I think the Defender would probably run circles around a little FreeLander in any sort of poor conditions. I'm sure we all know the experience of being stuck behind a slow driver at 30mph on an NSL road. It's no different when you're behind a car crawling in bad conditions, when your car can handle the conditions better. I know all the haters will now say 4x4's can't stop in the snow or ice any better than any other car, but that's just because they haven't driven them!
I did consider pulling over to allow him to pass but there was no suitable places off the road and if I had stopped at the side of the road I would have caused an obstruction and probably would have cars sliding into me.
Also I agree with the majority, 4x4s are harder to stop and turn on ice and snow! Usually being a good bit heavier and a higher centre of gravity then a normal car dont help anything.
What will it take for Brits to understand that expensive, modern rubber for sports cars are not to be used below 5C? But that modern, cheap rubber specifically designed for winter DO make an enormous difference to grip levels when it gets cold.
Just get a cheap set of wheels off eBay (learn about PCDs, J-sizes and offsets first) fit some winter tyres and save yourselves a fortune and a trip to A and E already.
Beware however, keeping winter tyres on through the summer will ruin them in just one season of spirited driving - they'll look like they've got plenty of tread but studless winter tyres need an awful lot of depth to be effective on ice. The wear blocks adjacent to the little triangles on the side walls do not lie.
Just get a cheap set of wheels off eBay (learn about PCDs, J-sizes and offsets first) fit some winter tyres and save yourselves a fortune and a trip to A and E already.
Beware however, keeping winter tyres on through the summer will ruin them in just one season of spirited driving - they'll look like they've got plenty of tread but studless winter tyres need an awful lot of depth to be effective on ice. The wear blocks adjacent to the little triangles on the side walls do not lie.
Sounds almost exactly like my only ever "public road" spin.
On a motorway slip road in the 200SX, a bit of throttle, and Whoops, I'm going backwards...
The slo motion, looking at all the trees down the embankment, thinking "Damn, I've just written off my car" - stopping, stalled, pointing the wrong way....
I also got away with it thankfully, stopped on tarmac having not hit a thing.
As for "how fast is too fast on ice" - Any speed at all really! If it's true Ice, all you can hope for is that you get to a grippy surface before the car has slid off the road. You're a passenger until then.
On a motorway slip road in the 200SX, a bit of throttle, and Whoops, I'm going backwards...
The slo motion, looking at all the trees down the embankment, thinking "Damn, I've just written off my car" - stopping, stalled, pointing the wrong way....
I also got away with it thankfully, stopped on tarmac having not hit a thing.
As for "how fast is too fast on ice" - Any speed at all really! If it's true Ice, all you can hope for is that you get to a grippy surface before the car has slid off the road. You're a passenger until then.
Many a time I've gotten out of a car after a 'careful' drive and discovered the ground to be lethally slippery - there are times when we don't appreciate how much work our tyres do.
Esp in heavy cars like the Lexus - we all love our RWD but the fact is that it does make for 'entertaining' handling when conditions aren't ideal - end of the day it's just a choice of direction you go through the hedge but FWD always seems a bit more like your own fault
p.s. on the 'slippery' thing, I've been doing a lot of long walks (me and the dog need to lose weight!!) and I've learned a surprising amount about how widely conditions can vary just based on things like wind direction and what shelter is around in terms of walls/buildings etc - as well as how different surfaces offer wildly varying grip.
Walking along a long straight footpath over the brown of a hill, I noticed that on the side sheltered from the wind, there was a consistent layer of ice - wheras on the windward side it was clear (I'd have thought that would be the other way around??).
Then there's a street I walk down where the cars are consistently frozen-up and until it goes around a bend (only 20-30 degrees maybe) and the cars are all ice-free - it's quite weird!!
Then there's a stretch of path which is paved for half it's length (not normally a problem) and then tarmacced for the rest (lethal when even remotely frosty - a total icerink!!)
Makes you think a bit more when cosy in your car assuming all the roads are the same...
Esp in heavy cars like the Lexus - we all love our RWD but the fact is that it does make for 'entertaining' handling when conditions aren't ideal - end of the day it's just a choice of direction you go through the hedge but FWD always seems a bit more like your own fault
p.s. on the 'slippery' thing, I've been doing a lot of long walks (me and the dog need to lose weight!!) and I've learned a surprising amount about how widely conditions can vary just based on things like wind direction and what shelter is around in terms of walls/buildings etc - as well as how different surfaces offer wildly varying grip.
Walking along a long straight footpath over the brown of a hill, I noticed that on the side sheltered from the wind, there was a consistent layer of ice - wheras on the windward side it was clear (I'd have thought that would be the other way around??).
Then there's a street I walk down where the cars are consistently frozen-up and until it goes around a bend (only 20-30 degrees maybe) and the cars are all ice-free - it's quite weird!!
Then there's a stretch of path which is paved for half it's length (not normally a problem) and then tarmacced for the rest (lethal when even remotely frosty - a total icerink!!)
Makes you think a bit more when cosy in your car assuming all the roads are the same...
Edited by johnpeat on Wednesday 28th December 14:10
I think the people suggesting that winter tyres will be no better on ice are probably not considering the reason why ice is slippery.
In fact, ice itself is not especially slippery. It only becomes really slippery when you tread on it or your car's tyres roll over it. The pressure causes the surface to melt momentarily, and then you aquaplane on a thin film of water. That, coupled with the smoothness of the solid layer underneath, will make you go a long way...
Once you realise that, you can see why it's not necessary to have studded tyres to get some benefit from winter tyres. It's all about how well the cold rubber can deal with that thin film of water and still provide some grip on the smooth surface beneath.
In fact, ice itself is not especially slippery. It only becomes really slippery when you tread on it or your car's tyres roll over it. The pressure causes the surface to melt momentarily, and then you aquaplane on a thin film of water. That, coupled with the smoothness of the solid layer underneath, will make you go a long way...
Once you realise that, you can see why it's not necessary to have studded tyres to get some benefit from winter tyres. It's all about how well the cold rubber can deal with that thin film of water and still provide some grip on the smooth surface beneath.
Max_Torque said:
Half the battle with little spins like that, is to realise you've lost it early and just hammer the brakes so the car continues to travel down the road (all be it backwards) rather than just continuing to arc off into the scenery on full lock)
Yup that's what I was taught at the skid school. Attempt to correct, if it's clearly going pete tong, clutch & brake and wait for car to stop.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff