Re: Where Jag went wrong
Discussion
cml said:
...The XJS is a fantastic car. It's not an E-Type, or a sports car, its a GT. The looks are distinctive. In a world of cars carefully crafted not to scare anybody away, its a refreshing change. You don't mistake one for anything else. It's brave and a bit silly - all that bonnet for a start. And it has buttresses! Time has been kind I think, and it looks better than it ever has. It is also a long distance cruiser par excellence...
I agree. It's ageing very well and could never be called bland as someone said earlier. Perhaps it's my age but when I was a wee boy the E-Type was only just starting to move out of the old hat, tatty smoker territory, and the XJS looked great by comparison. Again an age thing (and completely subjective) but the earlier E-Types always irritated me for not filling their arches, despite a (very) beautiful body. A sports car just shouldn't look that under-wheeled. Eagle have done a good job in rectifying this in recent years. As for the Series III, I'd have an XJS over that any day of the week (in particular a late 80's pre-facelift).
Whiters said:
I agree. It's ageing very well and could never be called bland as someone said earlier. Perhaps it's my age but when I was a wee boy the E-Type was only just starting to move out of the old hat, tatty smoker territory, and the XJS looked great by comparison.
Ferrari had the Berlinetta Boxer, Maserati had the Bora, Lamborghini had the Countach, Aston Martin had the V8 and Jaguar had, oh yes, the XJS.TA14 said:
Ferrari had the Berlinetta Boxer, Maserati had the Bora, Lamborghini had the Countach, Aston Martin had the V8 and Jaguar had, oh yes, the XJS.
Don't disagree those were and are far more desirable. I'm not saying the XJS is a classic in the same sense (prices reflect that [as did original purchase price]). It aged very quickly and fell out of favour in a way the others you mentioned didn't. But IMO the years have been kind to it. I'd also argue the target was more BMW E9/E24 or Merc C107.Whiters said:
Again an age thing (and completely subjective) but the earlier E-Types always irritated me for not filling their arches, despite a (very) beautiful body. A sports car just shouldn't look that under-wheeled. Eagle have done a good job in rectifying this in recent years. As for the Series III, I'd have an XJS over that any day of the week (in particular a late 80's pre-facelift).
I find exactly the opposite. i find the E-Type exquisitely wheeled, reminding me of the land speed record cars like Blubird which had their whheels inboard for aerodynamic reasons - made it look so much more aereodynamic than with fat tyres sticking out. american muscle car style.I never really liked the XJS but equally, at the age of 53, found the interior of the E-Type narrow and old-fashioned plus of course, in the 70s the fashion was more square and bluff so aero cars were looking a little old hat.
Shame Jag never made a rival to the Espada, my favourite car of the time.
Whiters said:
cml said:
...The XJS is a fantastic car. It's not an E-Type, or a sports car, its a GT. The looks are distinctive. In a world of cars carefully crafted not to scare anybody away, its a refreshing change. You don't mistake one for anything else. It's brave and a bit silly - all that bonnet for a start. And it has buttresses! Time has been kind I think, and it looks better than it ever has. It is also a long distance cruiser par excellence...
I agree. It's ageing very well and could never be called bland as someone said earlier. Perhaps it's my age but when I was a wee boy the E-Type was only just starting to move out of the old hat, tatty smoker territory, and the XJS looked great by comparison. Again an age thing (and completely subjective) but the earlier E-Types always irritated me for not filling their arches, despite a (very) beautiful body. A sports car just shouldn't look that under-wheeled. Eagle have done a good job in rectifying this in recent years. As for the Series III, I'd have an XJS over that any day of the week (in particular a late 80's pre-facelift).
The E Type an important sports car. But as you say the series 1 had an odd looking track, the 2+2 seriously ugly and the last ones bloated tat covered in ruinous rubber bumpers.
Jaguar spent 30 years listening to and being frightened of people incapable of looking forward, fearful of the future and people terrified of the power of the US sales.
And look: the moment Jaguar ditch these people from their organisation and stick two fingers up at unprofitable and pointless customers they suddenly break their shackles and deliver a range of cars that are right up to date, no sad visual laments of the past and at the same time all on a heavily restricted budget.
Personally, I see nothing to be gained from comparing the F Type to the E. it's just pandering to the people who will never be satisfied. It's a fantastic looking car and has absolutely no need to be referenced to an old car.
Nick644 said:
The F type will have had a lot of investment by Tata, looking at what they have done to Land Rover, I suspect, unlike the past, there will be continued huge investment in both Land Rover and Jaguar, with big increases in reliability. The F type, unlike the E type will undoubtedly get better and better. In my opinion, it tends to appeal to the older buyer, (unlike the 911 which appeals across the age spectrum). Keep the convertible as an auto, make the coupe more of a drivers car with manual option and bring out a more stripped out coupe version al la Porsche GT3 and they'll be on to a real winner, especially if the coupe could have some token back seats to throw the dog in/small kids etc..
Summed it up for me perfectly a manual Jaguar coupe would be a great thing, liking your idea of a stripped down version as wellDonkeyApple said:
I have to say that tho is my view. The XJS was a stunning GT.
The E Type an important sports car. But as you say the series 1 had an odd looking track, the 2+2 seriously ugly and the last ones bloated tat covered in ruinous rubber bumpers.
Jaguar spent 30 years listening to and being frightened of people incapable of looking forward, fearful of the future and people terrified of the power of the US sales.
And look: the moment Jaguar ditch these people from their organisation and stick two fingers up at unprofitable and pointless customers they suddenly break their shackles and deliver a range of cars that are right up to date, no sad visual laments of the past and at the same time all on a heavily restricted budget.
Personally, I see nothing to be gained from comparing the F Type to the E. it's just pandering to the people who will never be satisfied. It's a fantastic looking car and has absolutely no need to be referenced to an old car.
I actually love the XJ-13 reference in the back of the car, and wish it had been a little more obvious! But as a general point, yes, companies need to move on.The E Type an important sports car. But as you say the series 1 had an odd looking track, the 2+2 seriously ugly and the last ones bloated tat covered in ruinous rubber bumpers.
Jaguar spent 30 years listening to and being frightened of people incapable of looking forward, fearful of the future and people terrified of the power of the US sales.
And look: the moment Jaguar ditch these people from their organisation and stick two fingers up at unprofitable and pointless customers they suddenly break their shackles and deliver a range of cars that are right up to date, no sad visual laments of the past and at the same time all on a heavily restricted budget.
Personally, I see nothing to be gained from comparing the F Type to the E. it's just pandering to the people who will never be satisfied. It's a fantastic looking car and has absolutely no need to be referenced to an old car.
ZesPak said:
Whatever they did in the past, with the new XJ, the XF and soon the F-type, I think they have some of the most desireable cars in their segment.
Not sure about the XF its nice but not outstanding. The XJ on the other hand is just a handsome car.I think I would take a SS in black over a Quatroporte just,maybe. It would be close.
Under Lyons Jaguars were always underpriced when compared to its rivals,I have had a number of Jags over the years from a Mk1 2.4 to an XJ 40 and I have yet to find the much vaunted unreliability,they do need looking after however.
Like the rest of the British owned motor industry,Jag never had enough money for development thats why an engine designed in the thirty's kept them going until at least the seventy's. The E type had to go as everyone was forecasting the end of the drop-head thanks to the tree-huggers in California,what was that Americans name?
Like the rest of the British owned motor industry,Jag never had enough money for development thats why an engine designed in the thirty's kept them going until at least the seventy's. The E type had to go as everyone was forecasting the end of the drop-head thanks to the tree-huggers in California,what was that Americans name?
M0BZY said:
Under Lyons Jaguars were always underpriced when compared to its rivals,I have had a number of Jags over the years from a Mk1 2.4 to an XJ 40 and I have yet to find the much vaunted unreliability,they do need looking after however.
Like the rest of the British owned motor industry,Jag never had enough money for development thats why an engine designed in the thirty's kept them going until at least the seventy's. The E type had to go as everyone was forecasting the end of the drop-head thanks to the tree-huggers in California,what was that Americans name?
Ralph Nader?Like the rest of the British owned motor industry,Jag never had enough money for development thats why an engine designed in the thirty's kept them going until at least the seventy's. The E type had to go as everyone was forecasting the end of the drop-head thanks to the tree-huggers in California,what was that Americans name?
There was very little wrong with the XK engine, basically a good design and stood the test of time well, very reliable if you cared for it.
A mass produced engine, fairly wide tolerances but required understanding to get the best out of it.
Interested to see how some of the modern engines will perform when well over 50 years old - mine still give a severe shove in the back without dramatics or problems.
A mass produced engine, fairly wide tolerances but required understanding to get the best out of it.
Interested to see how some of the modern engines will perform when well over 50 years old - mine still give a severe shove in the back without dramatics or problems.
i've always loved the xj-s and especially the xjs. as soon as i got my redundancy money i knew exactly what i was going to buy. over a year later and i'm still in love with her.
considering the mixed opinions about the xjs here, i find the amount of positive attention she gets is astonishing. i think she even got me my current job as at the interview the boss was very complementary. said i was a man of "taste and good judgement"! lol!
considering the mixed opinions about the xjs here, i find the amount of positive attention she gets is astonishing. i think she even got me my current job as at the interview the boss was very complementary. said i was a man of "taste and good judgement"! lol!
He thinks the F-type looks like a Hyundai or other Korean designed car, he thinks Jaguar should instead have aimed to make a car as revolutionary as the E-type was in it's day. That is what I got from his post.
JLR seem more interested in developing their new markets in China and other emerging economies at the moment though, obviously they are in business to make money and luxury cars are probably more lucrative, that's my take.
JLR seem more interested in developing their new markets in China and other emerging economies at the moment though, obviously they are in business to make money and luxury cars are probably more lucrative, that's my take.
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