RE: New Honda Civic Type R details

[Bladedancer]

Nice!
And all this before tuning

Shame we have to wait till 2015 though.

[JonnyVTEC]

Ali_T said:

I've said that before as well. The last true Type R was the FD2. The EP3 and FN2 just didn't make the same effort and would be more appropriately called SiR or VTi, historically. It would also mean they got less flack from the Type R purists!

But did they ever buy new Hondas anyway?

[k-ink]

Looks like a big ugly lump. Same as every other hot hatch family wagon on sale.

[CypherP]

I'm wondering how much more Honda will decide to obscure the driver's rear-view before just opting to remove the rear window completely.

I'm definitely in agreement that earlier iterations of the Type R were better looking, but having not driven the larger varieties, I can't comment on whether they have lost the excitement factor.

[Fire99]

Steff said:

PunterCam said:

I hate to rise to this, but I also love doing it, plus I'm pissed. I have plenty of experience with automatics - they're much better at changing gear than I am. So what?

This isn't a racing car, it's not for competition, it's a toy. A toy to play with. An automatic gearbox is like using an aim-bot in "call of duty" (seriously - literally the only 'toy' I could think of, poor kids...) - it's much better than you, makes your life as a gamer easier, makes your "shooting people speed" much faster and more efficient. But what's the point?

I will never buy an automatic, unless it's in a wafting estate or 4x4. The praise that fking 1 series has got over it's 8speed is disgusting. It's like people don't know they're putting the nails in the manual gearbox coffin.

Nothing an automatic does is beneficial when it comes to fun. If you're not engaged enough to use a manual properly then you're not engaged enough to be driving at speed - it's a wonderful safety net which makes you think about the speeds you're doing. When I get to the top of 4th in my car I know I'm being silly, plus I'm possibly too terrified to take my hands off the wheel and find 5th. In the autos I've driven you pull a paddle (or it does it for you) and you go even faster (to jail). And the fun at low speeds - manoeuvring a manual car (with a nice engine) is a treat in itself. Just occasionally getting a gear-change right - what joy!

These are the last few decades of the petrol engine, and you're looking to dilute them with a lazy mans solution to a gearbox - it's desperately sad. You won't even need a gearbox with your electric car - won't that be fun. And we won't have that engine noise getting in the way of our relaxing town driving.

History will prove me completely and unarguably correct on this one.

Here, have a virtual pint

+1

[Alfa159Ti]

Mr2Mike said:

It's entirely subjective, just because you like them doesn't mean everyone else automatically has to.

I never said otherwise.

But tell me WHY - I want some interesting and informed debate on manual vs paddles, rather than just disposable comments.

I am sensing that the majority of the opposition of paddleshifters comes from people that know nothing about them.

[Alfa159Ti]

kambites said:

I've driven quite a lot of paddle-shift cars and whilst I certainly wouldn't say I hate them, I will never buy a car that's meant to be fun to drive with a semi-automated gearbox. I don't think they're bad, I just don't like them. They take away one of the elements that I most enjoy in driving - the feeling of mechanical connection to the drive-train that you get through a well set up clutch and gear stick.

I can sort of see the point of such a gearbox in a hot hatch though, since modern hot hatches seem to be more about performance and comfort than what I consider "fun" in driving.



Listening to the video, that actually sounds more like a slush-box than a clutched automatic!

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 10th September 18:21

Thanks Kambites, thats the sort of thing I am interested in.

[Alfa159Ti]

PunterCam said:

I hate to rise to this, but I also love doing it, plus I'm pissed. I have plenty of experience with automatics - they're much better at changing gear than I am. So what?

This isn't a racing car, it's not for competition, it's a toy. A toy to play with. An automatic gearbox is like using an aim-bot in "call of duty" (seriously - literally the only 'toy' I could think of, poor kids...) - it's much better than you, makes your life as a gamer easier, makes your "shooting people speed" much faster and more efficient. But what's the point?

I will never buy an automatic, unless it's in a wafting estate or 4x4. The praise that fking 1 series has got over it's 8speed is disgusting. It's like people don't know they're putting the nails in the manual gearbox coffin.

Nothing an automatic does is beneficial when it comes to fun. If you're not engaged enough to use a manual properly then you're not engaged enough to be driving at speed - it's a wonderful safety net which makes you think about the speeds you're doing. When I get to the top of 4th in my car I know I'm being silly, plus I'm possibly too terrified to take my hands off the wheel and find 5th. In the autos I've driven you pull a paddle (or it does it for you) and you go even faster (to jail). And the fun at low speeds - manoeuvring a manual car (with a nice engine) is a treat in itself. Just occasionally getting a gear-change right - what joy!

These are the last few decades of the petrol engine, and you're looking to dilute them with a lazy mans solution to a gearbox - it's desperately sad. You won't even need a gearbox with your electric car - won't that be fun. And we won't have that engine noise getting in the way of our relaxing town driving.

History will prove me completely and unarguably correct on this one.

Nothing like a good booze fuelled PH rant.

You missed the point of the debate I was trying to encourage though.

Obviously full autos are not as engaging as manuals.

It is however the paddleshift manual gearchange that I enjoy and find so intuitive in the Zed and which for me is more fun and interactive than a manual on a good road.

And this is coming from someone who also has a 'proper' Alfa as a second car with a super sweet manual shift.

[renrut]

otolith said:

Ali_T said:

A big torque IMA hybrid would have perfectly paired up to a high revving iVTEC and would have been far more interesting than another me-too turbo.

Quite. I don't see anything special to differentiate this from the Megane or Focus ST or Astra VXR. Previous Type-Rs - even the ones which maybe should have been badged VTi - had distinctive and interesting powertrains.

First Type-R I have absolutely no interest in.

I would have thought now is the best time to come out with a hybrid hot hatch - what with VAG, Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Maclaren etc all going down the hybrid thing route Honda could borrow a lot of their marketing 'hybrids are good' work for their hot hatch and make it very saleable. And of course there is the future NSX which is also supposed to be a hybrid. They can keep the 280 1.6 petrol engine too but I just feel it needs something to stand it above the crowd as its very crowded in the hot hatch market these days.

[edwardn]

5RedLights said:

vit4 said:

That's what caught my eye as well, is there anything to back this up?!

Yum. Ford said that they'd tried 4WD on the last RS and the FWD was actually a better car, but even from a sales point of view, a 4WD RS would sell insanely well as it's what every fast ford fan wants. Plus I can't see them going any higher with the power with FWD and it being driveable.

Ford should make a 4x4, manual, RS version, it would sell well, the general public would lust after it, and it would do wonders for Ford's image. It would be the first Ford since the Escort RS Cosworth to genuinely do that (bar the GT40 which, great car though it is, is a rich man's car).

[BBS-LM]

Not to sure what Honda are playing at with this car, the original design has been out years already, and they are not releasing this car until 2015, I'm not sure if the car will even be a viable option in 2015 even if it does have 270Bhp. Maybe I have it wrong, are honda using this car just to develop the engine for the 2015 car, and then by 2015 Honda will redesign the Type R body?

[FartKong]

I'll stick with my Integra DC2 thanks Mr Honda. This may be quicker around the Ring but seems to have lost all the things that made the original Type R's so great. Sadly though it seems to be the way the whole market is going now. People want boring heavy cars.

[Cleon Fonte]

Alfa159Ti said:

Nothing like a good booze fuelled PH rant.

You missed the point of the debate I was trying to encourage though.

Obviously full autos are not as engaging as manuals.

It is however the paddleshift manual gearchange that I enjoy and find so intuitive in the Zed and which for me is more fun and interactive than a manual on a good road.

And this is coming from someone who also has a 'proper' Alfa as a second car with a super sweet manual shift.

That's fine, you like autos, other people like manuals. The point is people should be given the choice when buying a performance car, which increasingly isn't the case.

[otolith]

I hear a lot of people with paddleshift automatic cars saying that they used the paddles for the first couple of weeks but now just drive everywhere in automatic mode.

[underphil]

7000rpm red line is pretty good for a modern turbo I recon

Shame it looks cack compared to the last one!

[Ali_T]

. The rumour about FWD being better on the last Focus RS is PR spin. The real reason it was FWD is that the Ford top brass would only let them build it if it could be produced on the normal Focus production line after they lost so much on the Mk1 Focus RS as it was practically hand finished. The regular Focus line had no ability to have 4WD installation so it was never going to happen.

Edited by Ali_T on Thursday 12th September 08:08

[mp3manager]

Honda of the UK can go and take a running jump off the nearest bridge, as far as I'm concerned.

Every UKDM Type R has been inferior and deliberately gimped compared to the JDM model and as the Japs have always kept the best Type R's for themselves.....I'll buy a JDM car when they are 3 years old.

[Harryturbs]

mp3manager said:

Honda of the UK can go and take a running jump off the nearest bridge, as far as I'm concerned.

Every UKDM Type R has been inferior and deliberately gimped compared to the JDM model and as the Japs have always kept the best Type R's for themselves.....I'll buy a JDM car when they are 3 years old.

I guess you don't understand why UKDM models are different to JDM...

[mp3manager]

Harryturbs said:

mp3manager said:

Honda of the UK can go and take a running jump off the nearest bridge, as far as I'm concerned.

Every UKDM Type R has been inferior and deliberately gimped compared to the JDM model and as the Japs have always kept the best Type R's for themselves.....I'll buy a JDM car when they are 3 years old.

I guess you don't understand why UKDM models are different to JDM...

I do, which is why I own a JDM DC5.

Nice first post btw and welcome to PH.

[Harryturbs]

mp3manager said:

the Japs have always kept the best Type R's for themselves.....

#

this comment says otherwise